I'm not pulling for Tubby to be canonized...

[sal]

but it's good to see people notice he does things the right way.

From Gary Parish
"Final thought: Far as November games go, Minnesota had a big one Sunday. The Gophers met Texas A&M in the third-place game of the 76 Classic. It was on national television, the outcome could affect how they're seeded in the NCAA tournament, and Tubby Smith understood all this. Still, he sat two key players -- Lawrence Westbrook and Al Nolen -- the first half for what amounted to some sort of undisclosed violation of team rules, and Smith never thought twice about it.

Texas A&M beat Minnesota 66-65.

The Aggies were up 38-29 at halftime.

So it's reasonable to believe the Gophers might've won had Smith played his full roster the entire game. But he didn't despite the fact Minnesota is already down three players who have also been suspended, despite the fact that countless other coaches have no problem compromising their core beliefs when a win is at stake.

"I have even more respect for Tubby now," Texas A&M coach Mark Turgeon said.

Afterward, I asked Smith why -- or better yet, how -- does he continue to take such a no-nonsense approach to off-the-court issues when so many in his profession don't hold themselves to the same standards?

"Security," Smith said. "I'm secure with who I am, what my program is all about, what we're going to do and how we're going to do things. For young coaches, it's just hard -- the pressure to win. But I'm at the stage in my career -- I've been doing this 36 years -- where there's nothing that's going to faze me, and the players understand that.

"They didn't do anything seriously wrong," Smith concluded. "I just want to see them take responsibility."

 

[Section201]

Tubby...

I love this guy!

"Security," Smith said. "I'm secure with who I am, what my program is all about, what we're going to do and how we're going to do things. For young coaches, it's just hard -- the pressure to win. But I'm at the stage in my career -- I've been doing this 36 years -- where there's nothing that's going to faze me, and the players understand that.

"They didn't do anything seriously wrong," Smith concluded. "I just want to see them take responsibility."

 

[TubbytownUSA]

I love winning.....

Sure its honorable, but that was a game that could seriously hurt us. Would've rather won.

 

[Brew_recruit]

wow another moral victory, yay!!! This is freaking Glen Mason type thinking.

 

[GopherLady]

I love winning.....

Sure its honorable, but that was a game that could seriously hurt us. Would've rather won.

I love winning too - that is the first time I have ever agreed with anything you said. So, if you were Tubby, where would you draw the line? Should we let guys play that don't make grades, that are convicted of assault, drugs, murder? Win at all costs, right, Tubbytown? Doing the right thing is honorable - but you clearly don't have a concept of that. Would it put things in perspective if we cheated, had NCAA sanctions, lost our trip to the Final 4, etc? Oh wait, that already happened...probably why we need to run a clean program.

wow another moral victory, yay!!! This is freaking Glen Mason type thinking.

Who said it was a moral victory? We said it was the right thing to do.

 

[Section201]

no thanks.

I love winning.....

Sure its honorable, but that was a game that could seriously hurt us. Would've rather won.

Should we bring Clem back?

 

[TubbytownUSA]

I love winning too - that is the first time I have ever agreed with anything you said. So, if you were Tubby, where would you draw the line? Should we let guys play that don't make grades, that are convicted of assault, drugs, murder? Win at all costs, right, Tubbytown? Doing the right thing is honorable - but you clearly don't have a concept of that. Would it put things in perspective if we cheated, had NCAA sanctions, lost our trip to the Final 4, etc? Oh wait, that already happened...probably why we need to run a clean program.



Who said it was a moral victory? We said it was the right thing to do.

Where would I draw the line? If it was something so incredibly minor to only warrant a half a game suspension in his eyes, don't suspend them at all. If it's that minor, discipline them in some other way that doesn't hurt our team and our chances to make the tournament.

I'm glad we are now going to be okay with losing as long as we did the honorable thing. I don't think whatever Nolen and Westy did would be on par with having sanctions and losing a trip to the Final 4. Besides, at least a Final 4 team is fun to watch, not an NIT team who can't make a friggin shot.

 

[TubbytownUSA]

wow another moral victory, yay!!! This is freaking Glen Mason type thinking.

Agree, it's bad. Now our basketball program has been infected with moral victories. We didn't win the game but at least our coach did an honorable thing by sitting 2 starters for a half.

 

[GopherLady]

Where would I draw the line? If it was something so incredibly minor to only warrant a half a game suspension in his eyes, don't suspend them at all. If it's that minor, discipline them in some other way that doesn't hurt our team and our chances to make the tournament.
.

You're right - he should of suspended them from a team meal or a 6am practice. That would have really taught them a lesson and insured it wouldn't of happened again!

You just really have no clue...but I'm just going to ignore you from now on, because I had your mindset when I was a teenager, and then I grew up and "got it."

 

[Mulligan]

You're right, GopherLady. I got through the regular football season without using the Ignore function, but I can see it's not going to happen during the basketball season.

 

[beowulftom]

I love winning.....

Sure its honorable, but that was a game that could seriously hurt us. Would've rather won.

Unreal man, I hope you're kidding but i fear you're not.

 

[vagopher]

High standards and good discipline will pay off in the end.

 

[go 31]

It was no fun to lose with a poor coach, it was good to win with a good coach who won at any cost, but it can be best to win with a great coach who does it the right way. In Tubby we trust.

 

[maxwellsmart]

High standards and discipline do pay off in the end. Anyone who flexes for the sake of a single win, no matter how important, can join the line at the registration table for the "Winning Makes Me Feel Good Club."

 

[Rick Mons]

I love winning.....

Sure its honorable, but that was a game that could seriously hurt us. Would've rather won.

Wow. It's probably passé, but you might want to invest a couple of hours and read, say, Profiles in Courage. Just sayin'

 

[GopherHomer]

Tubby needs to start winning some games...Monson was the guy brought in to run a 'nice guy' program. Not that Nolan and Westbrook have been all that impressive, but kids are going to have attitude problems...give them a break. I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games. I still support Tubby, but I'm starting to doubt his ability to take us to the level I thought he could. Offensively I just don't see our players improving.

 

[GoGoGophers]

I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men.

You're in the vast minority here. We've already had the former, and he shamed the University. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not an alum.

Please get the f*ck out of here and go cheer for Calipari. I don't want people like you (or Tubbytown, Brew_recruit, et al) associated with my University.

 

[MRJ]

Tubby needs to start winning some games...Monson was the guy brought in to run a 'nice guy' program. Not that Nolan and Westbrook have been all that impressive, but kids are going to have attitude problems...give them a break. I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games. I still support Tubby, but I'm starting to doubt his ability to take us to the level I thought he could. Offensively I just don't see our players improving.

This could be the single, most distorted view I have ever seen on this board. And the reasons why in this case are so obvious they require no elaboration.

 

[Section201]

Not much to agree with here.

Tubby needs to start winning some games...Monson was the guy brought in to run a 'nice guy' program. Not that Nolan and Westbrook have been all that impressive, but kids are going to have attitude problems...give them a break. I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games. I still support Tubby, but I'm starting to doubt his ability to take us to the level I thought he could. Offensively I just don't see our players improving.

Respectfully, I disagree with almost every point you make.

"give them a break" ==> They have a free ride at the U. They have a great HOF coach. They have a great opportunity to improve themselves and their future. Now, we should give them "a break"?

"I don't really care about them personally..." ==> There really isn't much I can say about that comment but WTF !!! Why are you interested in the U of M at all? What do you see as the purpose of the U of M?

Perhaps you should become a KYHomer. Tubby isn't going to change his stripes and I for one am very GLAD !!

 

[howeda7]

Tubby needs to start winning some games...Monson was the guy brought in to run a 'nice guy' program. Not that Nolan and Westbrook have been all that impressive, but kids are going to have attitude problems...give them a break. I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games. I still support Tubby, but I'm starting to doubt his ability to take us to the level I thought he could. Offensively I just don't see our players improving.

Not only must you not be an alum, but you must not be from the state of MN. If you don't care how our athletes behave as long as they win, then you're just rooting for laundry. Put the best physical specimens available in Maroon and Gold and make sure you win, and that's all that matters? Even if that were an acceptable view, what makes you think developing talent and developing men are mutually exclusive ends? They're not.

It's possible to disagree with Tubby's specific decision regarding Westbrook and Nolen without taking an overall view as disgusting as this. (Was it worth sacrficing a win to prove the point, or would benching them for 10 minutes have had the same effect without losing the game, etc.)

 

[Section201]

howeda7 - Best Line EVER!

Not only must you not be an alum, but you must not be from the state of MN. If you don't care how our athletes behave as long as they win, then you're just rooting for laundry. Put the best physical specimens available in Maroon and Gold and make sure you win, and that's all that matters? Even if that were an acceptable view, what makes you think developing talent and developing men are mutually exclusive ends? They're not.

It's possible to disagree with Tubby's specific decision regarding Westbrook and Nolen without taking an overall view as disgusting as this. (Was it worth sacrficing a win to prove the point, or would benching them for 10 minutes have had the same effect without losing the game, etc.)

Well done.

 

[TubbytownUSA]

Tubby needs to start winning some games...Monson was the guy brought in to run a 'nice guy' program. Not that Nolan and Westbrook have been all that impressive, but kids are going to have attitude problems...give them a break. I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games. I still support Tubby, but I'm starting to doubt his ability to take us to the level I thought he could. Offensively I just don't see our players improving.

Might be a little harsh but I agree for the most part. If it's nothing more than an attitude problem as he said, and he doesn't have the ability to handle it in a way other than suspensions, than thats a problem too. Why sacrifice the rest of the team's efforts for 2 guys doint something minor?

Obviously developing men is important in college athletics, but you're right that Tubby was brought in to win, not "clean up" our program, that was Monson's job. I still believe in Tubby but I don't think he has been his best this year. In regards to his quotes about him being in the profession 35 years or whatever and not having to be as cutthroat to win as younger coaches and being more willing to discipline...WTF?!? Is he contempt with being average and is his worry so much more on being a disciplinarian than a winning coach? That's no good.

 

[howeda7]

Well done.

Thanks, but I can't really take the credit. I believe I first heard Jerry Seinfeld use it in a bit years ago. But it seemed appropriate.

 

[GoGoGophers]

Might be a little harsh but I agree for the most part. If it's nothing more than an attitude problem as he said, and he doesn't have the ability to handle it in a way other than suspensions, than thats a problem too. Why sacrifice the rest of the team's efforts for 2 guys doint something minor?

Obviously developing men is important in college athletics, but you're right that Tubby was brought in to win, not "clean up" our program, that was Monson's job. I still believe in Tubby but I don't think he has been his best this year. In regards to his quotes about him being in the profession 35 years or whatever and not having to be as cutthroat to win as younger coaches and being more willing to discipline...WTF?!? Is he contempt with being average and is his worry so much more on being a disciplinarian than a winning coach? That's no good.

Now I know that you're not an alum. Are you this stupid or just a 12 year old?

Please stop being a "fan" of my University. Cheer for your HS/Junior High/grade school/whatever level of schooling you actually completed.

 

[TubbytownUSA]

Now I know that your not an alum. Are you this stupid or just a 12 year old?

Please stop being a "fan" of my University. Cheer for your HS/Junior High/grade school/whatever level of schooling you actually completed.

Not an alum, but current student here. Just realistic, unlike the delusional people like you.

 

[beowulftom]

Tubby needs to start winning some games...

I'd rather have a basketball coach worry more about developing talent than developing men. I know that's going to be an unpopular statement around here, but honestly I don't really care personally about the players on the team beyond what they can do for the Gophers in terms of winning games.

I would say that this might be the most quotable thing you've ever said or written, and not in the way you'd like....

 

[awag777]

Not that I'm in the "win at all costs" boat (I'm more in the middle of the two extremes here between "in Tubby we trust, win with morality" and "win at all costs"), but I suspect a lot of you who feel like Tubby did the right thing would feel a lot differently if we're on the outside looking in next March. I don't think that it'll get to that point, I really feel like we'll make it somewhat comfortably, but in a hypothetical situation...

 

[Drex96]

Splitting The Difference

It's possible to disagree with Tubby's specific decision regarding Westbrook and Nolen without taking an overall view as disgusting as this. (Was it worth sacrificing a win to prove the point, or would benching them for 10 minutes have had the same effect without losing the game, etc.)

I suspect that the "infraction" that these players committed was nothing more than expression of frustration after losing a very winnable game against Portland. Some coaches use that energy to light a fire under the team in the next game, some coaches douse the fire and let the chips fall where they may.

It appears that Tubby chose the latter option and the team lost the game as a result.

As one of the many Gopher fans who attended the game (btw, what a nice crowd supporting the Gopher at a neutral site), I noticed that Westbrook was more focused on instructions from his father and uncle in the stands than the Gopher coaching staff on the bench--during the games, not just during the warm ups. Did anyone else attending the game in person see this or am I the only one?

Seems Kris Humphries isn't the only Gopher with father/coach control issues...

 

[Rick Mons]

The Pro Sport Mentality

Seems to me that TubbyTown, GopherHomer and others with that same outlook are really expressing the mentality of a Pro Sports fan. I'm perfectly fine with the idea of cheering on the Vikings, T-wolves, etc and putting the emphasis on wins and not character development/guidance. But if that's the mentality, I think those fans will probably be more comfortable cheering on pro teams and not collegiate teams.

The expectations are different for collegiate sports. The expectations certainly differ in terms of the various stakeholders:
• Alumni and state residents who have both an emotional and financial affiliation with the U;
• Parents of athletes who play those sports and attend the school -- regardless of whether they are walk-ons or scholarship players;
• The faculty and the administrative leadership who support the dual missions of sports and academics.

I think those expectations have already been diluted far too much on some campuses and in some athletic programs. But IMO the answer isn't to further dilute the expectations and set the bar as low as the common denominator seems to be trending.

It's disturbing to see younger fans express the "just win" mentality. It's more disturbing, however, that Tubby's decision was noteworthy. I'd rather that decision be the rule rather than an event that needs to be chronicled because it is unusual or unexpected.

 

[underground629]

People somehow think that Tubby's decision regarding Nolen and Westbrook was the difference in winning or losing and maybe even making the tournament or not. Since almost everyone on the board already complains about Nolen, I'm guessing having Nolen benched actually made a lot of people happy (personally I don't have a problem with him). And let's be honest, Westbrook didn't do crap in the tournament, so who knows whether we would've won or not had they played in the first half. Even though they almost gave us the game at the end by even worse FT shooting than us, we were definitely outplayed and didn't deserve to win.