If we can land a top coach we should do it

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wdgold said:
I brought up a similar opinion as yours and was lambasted for even suggesting that the U go after a top notch head coach if Brew doesn't work out. I believe Brew needs more time, a year or two, depending on how they do next season. It was pointed out to me that we don't have the prestige or the money to get one. Whether we have those things or not if Brew doesn't work out that is what has to happen to turn this program from mediocrity to contending for a Big Ten championship from time to time.
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Everybody agrees that if we replace Brewster, it would be nice to have a stud coach. Feasibility is an entirely different matter. However, it happened with Tubby, so who knows.
 

oak_street1981 said:
The Mason teams beat, or at least had a big lead on highly regarded teams on a regular basis. His teams almost always destroyed inferior non Big Ten and most inferior Big Ten teams. Brewster's team are painful to watch against any team.

Brewster has yet to produce a big win agains against any good or great team, and although Mason sucked against Iowa and Wisconsin, Brewster has been worse.

A Mason team could have possibly lost to team like Iowa State, but 35-14 would have been more likely, with 350 yards rushing and 200 yards passing.

Stop the revisionism, things are not equal between the two regimes at all, unless you want to play recuiting star rating games, rather than results on the field.
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I really don't get your point.

If you are giving Mason's teams props for blowing a gigantic lead against Michigan, do you give Brewster's teams props for losing a close one at Iowa? I am sure you are going to come up with some theory why it is more impressive to blow a lead than to play a close game and lose.

Then you are sort of making an argument that 35-14 would have been better than 14-13. So in your world, it is better to lose by 21 instead of 1 if you have more yards? Seriously?
 

Al Golden, Schiano, and Kevin Sumlin would all be

hyaluronic said:
Everybody agrees that if we replace Brewster, it would be nice to have a stud coach. Feasibility is an entirely different matter. However, it happened with Tubby, so who knows.
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huge upgrades over the TE assistant we have now. Skip Holtz or Randy Edsel would be huge ugrades. Joker Phillips would have been a huge upgrade.

Some of the homerun type guys like Leach and Harbaugh would be even better.

I really miss and respect the physical style of football that Stanford plays under Harbaugh.
 

oak_street1981 said:
huge upgrades over the TE assistant we have now. Skip Holtz or Randy Edsel would be huge ugrades. Joker Phillips would have been a huge upgrade.

Some of the homerun type guys like Leach and Harbaugh would be even better.

I really miss and respect the physical style of football that Stanford plays under Harbaugh.
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I am not going to make judgments about who is or is not an upgrade, save the "home run" hire.

I do not consider Leach to be a home run hire, as I do not know if he will be able to recruit for his system with Minnesota as his backyard.

I love smashmouth football, but I am not going to hold my personal preferences over a coach's head. If Brewster succeeds, I can easily accept almost any product he puts on the field.
 

Leach won without top tier talent, at least if star

I do not consider Leach to be a home run hire, as I do not know if he will be able to recruit for his system with Minnesota as his backyard.

ratings mean as much as many seem to thing they do.

Brewster's main strength is allegedly the ability to recruit top talent nationally (and not get the elite MN kids, just like GM did not - Henderson, Floyd, Breck guy). There is no reason Leach would not continue to get those types of guys nationally, and again TT was not pulling in 4/5 guys every year, yet they won.
 


Here's what I love. Brewster's personality is apparently the wrong fit for MN. But we think Leach would be welcomed? He of the pirates and "fat little girlfriends" and "raining mud sideways" weather reports on the local news? Don't get me wrong, I like Leach. But I shudder to think how the fans and media around here would receive him. Also, the U won't hire him until they KNOW that he didn't do something inappropriate. And that will take longer then a few days. Maybe he'll be around if Brew gets fired after next season (wouldn't surprise me if he is). I think his system could work anywhere including here. But he is not an option right now b/c of the cloud that hangs over his reputation.

Chris Peterson is a risk. Boise State coaches who leave BSU have a track record of failure/not performing up to the BSU level. Wouldn't be mad if they hired him, but he is no sure thing. Also, he has shown no interest in leaving BSU (and he's had other offers).

Dungy/Gruden. Really? Are we still talking about this? Dungy has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that he is not coaching college FB or coming here. Let the Great Pumpkin be. And Gruden? He spent a grand total of 3 years of college coaching with 3 different colleges. All position coaching, and none more recently than 1991. He is a PRO COACH. He has no track history of recruiting. I have no doubt he'd do a great job turning the talent Brew has recruited into a good team. But would he get talent of his own? Plus, there is no f-ing way we could afford him (he would command north of 3 million a year).

I think firing Brew would be a mistake right before signing day. But if you're going to toss some names out there at least try to pick names that are within the realm of possibility.
 

oak_street1981 said:
I do not consider Leach to be a home run hire, as I do not know if he will be able to recruit for his system with Minnesota as his backyard.

ratings mean as much as many seem to thing they do.

Brewster's main strength is allegedly the ability to recruit top talent nationally (and not get the elite MN kids, just like GM did not - Henderson, Floyd, Breck guy). There is no reason Leach would not continue to get those types of guys nationally, and again TT was not pulling in 4/5 guys every year, yet they won.
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Add to that that I would be hard pressed to think of any place harder to recruit to then Lubbock, TX. It is the armpit of America with absolutely nothing to do there unless you like oil wells. There may be some other college towns just as bad that I have not been to but could not imagine any worse than Lubbock.
 

Bob, they would have won 35-14 not lost.

Bob_Loblaw said:
I really don't get your point.

If you are giving Mason's teams props for blowing a gigantic lead against Michigan, do you give Brewster's teams props for losing a close one at Iowa? I am sure you are going to come up with some theory why it is more impressive to blow a lead than to play a close game and lose.

Then you are sort of making an argument that 35-14 would have been better than 14-13. So in your world, it is better to lose by 21 instead of 1 if you have more yards? Seriously?
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More importantly it seemed possible that the Mason teams could win most of the games they had scheduled. (Michigan, PSU, OSU) This hope is not present for many of the games under Brewster.

And yes, I'd rather watch a bad defensive team up three or four scores knowing there is chance they will blow the game than watch a team with no rushes over 15 yards, under 300 yards of offense, under 5 yards a passing attempt, and under 100 yards rushing eek out an ugly loss against an awful offensive team like Iowa.

These Brewster teams are virtually unwatchable; boring and fundamentally unsound.

Keep track of my prediction of 2010 being much like '83 with USC playing he role of Nebraska, and Brewster playing the role of Joe Salem. History will repeat itself. Brewster will be gone before the end of next January.
 

oak_street1981 said:
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I will admit that my early 2007 predictions have not come to fruition. However, after watching our first year, I downgraded my expectations in the first four years significantly. I will not judge Brewster negatively until he is given five years, and I may even want a sixth year depending upon circumstances. There is no way Brewster's seat should be this hot so soon after being bowl eligible in two consecutive seasons. We are at Mason levels, give Brewster time to go beyond that. And yes, there have been problems under Brewster. The two regimes have two incredibly different philosophies, and it makes comparison very difficult without resorting to the wins and losses. Given our increased schedule strength, those are nearly identical. Keep in mind, we played the top teams in the B10 this year, missing two of the bottom three B10 teams. The next two years will still have brutal non-conference opponents. 2012 would be the best year to compare Brewster and Mason's achievements, or lack thereof.
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The Mason teams beat, or at least had a big lead on highly regarded teams on a regular basis. His teams almost always destroyed inferior non Big Ten and most inferior Big Ten teams. Brewster's team are painful to watch against any team.

Brewster has yet to produce a big win agains against any good or great team, and although Mason sucked against Iowa and Wisconsin, Brewster has been worse.

A Mason team could have possibly lost to team like Iowa State, but 35-14 would have been more likely, with 350 yards rushing and 200 yards passing.

Stop the revisionism, things are not equal between the two regimes at all, unless you want to play recuiting star rating games, rather than results on the field.[/QUOTE]

What???? Mason was 32-48 in ten years here in the Big Ten. That is a 3-5 record for 10 years. We are already at that level and Brewster recruits arent even juniors yet. Give me a break.
 



Quick update to the above. I should soften my harsh response to the Leach suggestion. I still don't see how the U hires him while he's accused of what he's accused of. However, I would welcome his hire (if only for the fact that talking like a pirate while drunk becomes more "normal" thanks to him). I also like the wide open offense and I have no doubt he could turn Gray into a stud.

Peterson I'm very "meh" about since the previous coaches to leave BSU haven't shown that their success their translates.

My cranky response should have been limited to Dungy/Gruden. Because both of those are just silly and not going to happen.
 

Yeah, you are 40 year losers and you get a guy to make changes and you fire him before he gets to play the players he recruited. He also has academic success and restored a good relationship within the state and closed the borders for the most part to Iowa and Wisky. Yep, I am sure great coaches can't wait to get here. Maybe we should sell the weather. Or we could sell our great in-state recruiting. Or maybe our loyal fanbase. Maybe we could sell the fact that this is not a professional team city. You guys kill me.
 

oak_street1981 said:
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More importantly it seemed possible that the Mason teams could win most of the games they had scheduled. (Michigan, PSU, OSU) This hope is not present for many of the games under Brewster.

And yes, I'd rather watch a bad defensive team up three or four scores knowing there is chance they will blow the game than watch a team with no rushes over 15 yards, under 300 yards of offense, under 5 yards a passing attempt, and under 100 yards rushing eek out an ugly loss against an awful offensive team like Iowa.

These Brewster teams are virtually unwatchable; boring and fundamentally unsound.

Keep track of my prediction of 2010 being much like '83 with USC playing he role of Nebraska, and Brewster playing the role of Joe Salem. History will repeat itself. Brewster will be gone before the end of next January.
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Well Cosgrove's defenses do have a history of making the box score look like that of a basketball game at times.
 

oak_street1981 said:
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More importantly it seemed possible that the Mason teams could win most of the games they had scheduled. (Michigan, PSU, OSU) This hope is not present for many of the games under Brewster.

And yes, I'd rather watch a bad defensive team up three or four scores knowing there is chance they will blow the game than watch a team with no rushes over 15 yards, under 300 yards of offense, under 5 yards a passing attempt, and under 100 yards rushing eek out an ugly loss against an awful offensive team like Iowa.

These Brewster teams are virtually unwatchable; boring and fundamentally unsound.

Keep track of my prediction of 2010 being much like '83 with USC playing he role of Nebraska, and Brewster playing the role of Joe Salem. History will repeat itself. Brewster will be gone before the end of next January.
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Then you are just making a judgment about which brand of football you find more exciting. You can't possibly argue that a team who gets beat by 21 is in better position than a team who loses by 1 point.

Also, a lot of people found Mason's Defenses to be boring and they were certainly fundamentally unsound.

I can understand having a preference for a certain style of play, but that personal preferance of yours does not equate to an argument about where a program is at. If you really think that losing an exciting game by 21 points is better than losing a boring game by 1 point, then you really don't seem to care if the program ever really improves.

In your world, Texas Tech is a better program than Ohio St.
 



Brewster's teams are inept due to poor coaching.

]

What???? Mason was 32-48 in ten years here in the Big Ten. That is a 3-5 record for 10 years. We are already at that level and Brewster recruits arent even juniors yet. Give me a break.[/QUOTE]

The teams are not at the level of the Mason teams. They never blow anyone out; they never build leads against elite teams or beat them. They do not pound the bad teams. We all know that teams like OSU and USC will kill them well before the kickoff.

Recruiting does not overcome substandard coaching. The players do not get better, and the gameday decisions do not get better. The game day prep isn't so hot either.

This staff had five or six weeks to shake up an awful offense, and they came up with what?


Stubborn and stupid


This staff stuck with Adam Weber and an awful "pro/ Fisch" system that was not working when they had six weeks to shake it up.

The kill shot Fisch is reason enough get rid of Tim Brewster right now, or await 1983 all over again.
 

minngg said:
Yeah, you are 40 year losers and you get a guy to make changes and you fire him before he gets to play the players he recruited. He also has academic success and restored a good relationship within the state and closed the borders for the most part to Iowa and Wisky. Yep, I am sure great coaches can't wait to get here. Maybe we should sell the weather. Or we could sell our great in-state recruiting. Or maybe our loyal fanbase. Maybe we could sell the fact that this is not a professional team city. You guys kill me.
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The restored a good relationship within the state take is subjective. Enough coaches were plenty upset when Gordy Shaw wasn't retained. Gordy had a great relationship with many.
 

Lubbock and Minnesota have different recruiting challenges. Lubbock is at least somewhat close to home for TX recruits, which helps them despite not offering many of the advantages of Minneapolis. Plus it is not frigid cold there.
 

GopherGod said:
Well Cosgrove's defenses do have a history of making the box score look like that of a basketball game at times.
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Do you not like Kevin Cosgrove or something? It just seems like it the way you talk about him every once and awhile. I wish you could explain it to us more often.

It must bug you that he didn't do as badly as you predicted huh?
 


Doogie said:
The restored a good relationship within the state take is subjective. Enough coaches were plenty upset when Gordy Shaw wasn't retained. Gordy had a great relationship with many.
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No offense Doogie, but that doesn't say much for those coaches. I'm sure its not unheard of for new HC's to keep some holdovers from the old staff, but it certainly isn't a frequent occurrence. And any HS coach who is holding a grudge over this...frankly, that's just silly. Not saying it isn't true...just saying that it doesn't speak too highly of their maturity or grips with the business of D1 football. Unless Brew dispatched of Gordy is a poor fashion (feel free to chime in if that's the case), I'm not sure why they would hold this against the current staff.
 

dayjoh said:
Do you not like Kevin Cosgrove or something? It just seems like it the way you talk about him every once and awhile. I wish you could explain it to us more often.

It must bug you that he didn't do as badly as you predicted huh?
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Don't get GG started. He loves Nebraska football, that's why he cares about Cosgrove. And don't expect him to admit anything about Cosgrove given the D's continued struggles on 3rd down or stopping strong rushing teams.

Cos did better than many expected. And the D is a primary reason the season didn't turn out worse. But we won't world beaters on D either.
 

If I could land Anne Hathaway, I should do it.
 



Doogie said:
The restored a good relationship within the state take is subjective. Enough coaches were plenty upset when Gordy Shaw wasn't retained. Gordy had a great relationship with many.
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Yeah, I could tell by the excellent job Gordy did retaining MN kids.
 

oak_street1981 said:
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What???? Mason was 32-48 in ten years here in the Big Ten. That is a 3-5 record for 10 years. We are already at that level and Brewster recruits arent even juniors yet. Give me a break.
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The teams are not at the level of the Mason teams. They never blow anyone out; they never build leads against elite teams or beat them. They do not pound the bad teams. We all know that teams like OSU and USC will kill them well before the kickoff.

Recruiting does not overcome substandard coaching. The players do not get better, and the gameday decisions do not get better. The game day prep isn't so hot either.

This staff had five or six weeks to shake up an awful offense, and they came up with what?


Stubborn and stupid


This staff stuck with Adam Weber and an awful "pro/ Fisch" system that was not working when they had six weeks to shake it up.

The kill shot Fisch is reason enough get rid of Tim Brewster right now, or await 1983 all over again.[/QUOTE]

Good coaching does not overcome bad talent. The facts speak for themslves. Brewster is already coaching at a mason level with a harder schedule than Mase ever had. This year MN did not play either of the 1 win teams in conference and had the top 3 Big Ten teams on the road. He still finished with a Mason-like 3-5 Big ten record.
 

GophBen said:
If I could land Anne Hathaway, I should do it.
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You jerk. I already had my witty retort planned from the second I read the thread topic, and then you stole it.

Mine was going to be "If I can land Katy Perry, I should divorce my wife. I'll let you know how that goes."

And then you got here before me.

Ass.;)
 

minngg said:
Yeah, I could tell by the excellent job Gordy did retaining MN kids.
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To dismiss him would be foolish. Look at the job he did with the O-line. Gordy was the hardest worker recruiting-wise Mason had, but with Glen, was constantly fighting an uphill battle.
 


How is that faint praise? The guy was a very good O-line coach. No way around that.
 


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