This is the most ill-informed, made up inside source I have ever seen. This all couldn't be further from the truth.
If Tubby can't win at MN
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This is the most ill-informed, made up inside source I have ever seen. This all couldn't be further from the truth.
beavergopher
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We hired a very good coach who was burned out from his last gig and is on the downside of his career. This is a young mans game unless you are at an established powerhouse.
I was never exited about his hiring and watching his brutal style of B-ball it has become evident why he got run of town in Lexington. They demand greatness and won't settle for being good. Joel's big hire has become a BIG disappointment.
I was never exited about his hiring and watching his brutal style of B-ball it has become evident why he got run of town in Lexington. They demand greatness and won't settle for being good. Joel's big hire has become a BIG disappointment.
dpodoll68
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2002-03: 32 wins, Elite Eight
2003-04: 27 wins, 2nd round
2004-05: 28 wins, Elite Eight
2005-06: 22 wins, 2nd round
2006-07: 22 wins, 2nd round
Tubby's last 5 years as Kentucky coach:
Winning percentage .766 (131-40)
Tournament appearances 5/5 (100%)
Elite Eight appearances 2/5 (40%)
Kentucky all time:
Winning percentage .761 (2,058-647)
Tournament appearances 51/73 (70%)
Elite Eight appearances 33/73 (45%)
Tubby's last 5 years were better in terms of both winning percentage and frequency of tournament appearances, and slightly below in frequency of Elite Eight appearances, when compared to other Kentucky coaches all-time. Keep in mind that the comparables are current or future coaching Hall-of-Famers Adolph Rupp, Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino, and John Calipari.
Oops.
I'm curious as to why no one has called out Maturi for hiring Tubby.
Cause most pretty much don't think he hired him as much as Tubby chose to come here to get away from the limelight of Lexington lol
MNGreatest
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Listen I like Tubby and think it will all work out in given time, I am just repeating what I have heard and trying to find some answers for what has occurred. What he did at Kentucky was great for the program and he didn't really deserve to be thrown out like that. If his tenure at Minnesota ends up looking anything like that of Kentuckys I'd be ecstatic. And it's a liable source Stan, truth hurt don't it.
WolfontheProwl
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Maybe Tubby is just the wrong fit for this program.
I think Tubby is a good defensive minded basketball coach who gets the most he can out of his players on that end of the floor. That being said I am not sure I have seen a Gopher coach with a more pathetic excuse of an offensive game plan. He has not recruited all that well IMO other than his one big class that ended up not being as big as we had hoped.
Part of being a good coach is getting good talent, keeping it around, and developing the talent you have brought in. I am not sure we can say Tubby has done a good job at Minnesota in these areas. He has had some bad luck with the Nolen injury and now the Mbakwe injury but the massive losses at other positions and mistakes in recruiting have killed the forward momentum of the program as much as the injuries.
I think Tubby is a good defensive minded basketball coach who gets the most he can out of his players on that end of the floor. That being said I am not sure I have seen a Gopher coach with a more pathetic excuse of an offensive game plan. He has not recruited all that well IMO other than his one big class that ended up not being as big as we had hoped.
Part of being a good coach is getting good talent, keeping it around, and developing the talent you have brought in. I am not sure we can say Tubby has done a good job at Minnesota in these areas. He has had some bad luck with the Nolen injury and now the Mbakwe injury but the massive losses at other positions and mistakes in recruiting have killed the forward momentum of the program as much as the injuries.
dpdoll- Your point is not necessarily wrong but the comparisons are not fair. The Adolph Rupp years are not comparable to today in terms of Tournament appearances or winning percentage. Rupp coached in the days where you won your conference or you didn't go to the tourney. So the fact that Kentucky was going to the tournament that often meant they were winning their conference that often and I don't think Tubby did that. Not sure how Tubby scheduled non-conference, but if it's anything like he is doing here.......it could skew the winning percentage. Tubby did fine at Kentucky, but he didn't exactly blow them away with success either.
GophersInIowa
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I understand it's easy to say "What if..." but there's no denying that we've had some very bad luck the past few seasons.
I'm kind of neutral on Tubby, they play hard, decent defense, and offense kind of sucks. When you lose the number of players that they have something is off kilter. That really hurts at a place like Minnesota, you have to develop players and keep them four years or you're not going to be successfull. I really think that what happens to this fresh/sophmore class is going to sway me one way or the other. If the number of players transferring gets high then his style just isn't going to work anymore. Compare the Dayton offense to Minnesota's and how more efficient and cohesive it was. That comes from having players in the system that gain experience and confidence, not from mostly first/second year players.
Yes you can win with in state Minnesota recruits. It will be telling in the next three years, Washington, Vaughn, and Jones are very highly sought after recruits. Lose all three and the writing will be on the wall.
4 words - He has John Wall.
Really, the type of attitude that infiltrated the Gopher Football board over the last 10 years or so, has now made it's way to the basketball board? Tubby Smith may be washed up or he may have just had a horrible run of luck. No program is going to be in very good shape if they have 6 Spring recruits on their roster (Maverick, Chip, Oto, Mo, Andre, Julian) and that has very little to do with Minnesota.
Who is responsible for the roster after 5 years?
PlayRoyce
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You can win at Mn. Every coach other than Monson has had some success here. Mn has great fan support, is the only D1 school in a state that has good talent, is a awesome school in a awesome conference. I agree with the other posters, Tubby just doesn't seem to be a good fit here.
The Tubby watch bores me as much as his trump card excuse of not having a practice facility when recruits don't line up or free throw shooting struggles. I don't see anyone lining up to steal him at this point and retirement seems more likely if he does leave.
It is what it is and that is a program stuck in neutral for 4 years. Tubby has been dealt some bad hands, but he also needs to own recruiting and the dissent/turnover.
The way I see it, Tubby has an opportunity to justify his hall of fame coach persona. I don't buy the program dies if Tubby leaves without winning here. I think a Ben Jacobson would have a shot here and possibly be a better fit in regards to building a program that plays to the advantages and disadvantages Minnesota offers.
It is what it is and that is a program stuck in neutral for 4 years. Tubby has been dealt some bad hands, but he also needs to own recruiting and the dissent/turnover.
The way I see it, Tubby has an opportunity to justify his hall of fame coach persona. I don't buy the program dies if Tubby leaves without winning here. I think a Ben Jacobson would have a shot here and possibly be a better fit in regards to building a program that plays to the advantages and disadvantages Minnesota offers.
bemidjigopher
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College athletics is a business, you get what you put into it. While money and new facilities don't promice you anything, they increase your odds. In order to build a winner you have to have a President and an AD with the right vision and are willing to spend the dollars on the right resources and to go out and get a coach. People saud the samething about wisconsin, but in the early 90's the school's prsesident knew the importants of athletics, so the school went out gotta a good AD, who then hired Alvarez and later Ryan for their revenue sports, and now they're considered a model department. If Kaler brings in the right Athletic Directer and the school gets this practice facility built, the school will be on par with the rest of bigten in recruiting, I think Tubby can recruit, alot of good players have committed here, quite a few have left for various reasons and we've een on the final list for alot of bluechippers, but the school's were competing with have newer facilities then us and recruits like that stuff.
RE: Not having a practice facility:
At Ky he had practice facilities and everything he needed yet by the time he was finished UK was not even a top 20 Program his last 2 seasons. He had stopped recruiting the best when he had everything at his fingertips.
The practice facility is an excuse.
Yes he has had bad luck, much more than a coach deserves, but a coach is suppose to cover his bases. You don't build a team and base everything on 1 player. The loss of Trevor is huge but he should have enough great players by now to still be a great team so that the loss is a setback, not a season buster.
The fact is that this is Tubby's 5th year. Every player he has on the floor is his pick, his teachings. How much has Sampson learned and improved as a player since he was a freshman. How much has Tubby developed him?
People think that because Tubby had some success at UK it meant he was automatically going to be the same at Minn.
People and coaches change. Was Bobby Knight the same at the end of his career as he was in his hey day? How about Denny Crumb. Many coaches fade as they approach the end of their career and Tubby is no different.
Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting, did I mention Recruiting.
Ask yourself If you are a top 10 prospect who wants to go to the NBA as most of the top 10 prospects have dreams of. Are you going to a school where the coach preaches offense and gives you the freedom to learn and showcase offense to get ready for the next level or are you going to pick Tubby where the only words out of his mouth are DEFENSE. Where instead of being allowed to score you spend your whole college career getting ready to play defense? Like it or not the top picks don't want to play for Tubby. Those are the cold hard facts, like it or not.
The kids of today know how each coach runs his team. Tubby is known as a coach who builds his game around defense and that is not going to get the best players, plain and simple.
As I said, Tubby has had some bad luck but with Tubby it is always something, always.
Tubby is doing at Minn what he did the last few years at KY. He racks up his wins by getting little wins over the cupcake schools, then plucks off enough ( just enough) in conference to get to 20. People think he's great because he wins 20 and the Tubby Myth rolls on. When it comes to playing equal or greater competition the mask comes off.
But his fans fall back on that 20 wins like its gold even though most teams play 30 plus games a year now and winning 20 isn't what it used to be.
5 years ago I made a prediction on this board
Tubby would win 20 games most, if not each year.
He would finish in the middle of the Big Ten each year.
He would get post season play each year but not any big wins.
He would NEVER get to the Sweet 16
When he got ready to retire he would groom Saul for the job.
So far I'm pretty close as we are still waiting on Saul
I am sure I going to get ripped for this post but know this fans, Tubby has already peaked at Minn in the first couple of years he has been here. He has already given the fans the most excitement they are going to get out of him when he turned Monson's team around. It is going to be mediocre basketball at best as long as he remains.
At Ky he had practice facilities and everything he needed yet by the time he was finished UK was not even a top 20 Program his last 2 seasons. He had stopped recruiting the best when he had everything at his fingertips.
The practice facility is an excuse.
Yes he has had bad luck, much more than a coach deserves, but a coach is suppose to cover his bases. You don't build a team and base everything on 1 player. The loss of Trevor is huge but he should have enough great players by now to still be a great team so that the loss is a setback, not a season buster.
The fact is that this is Tubby's 5th year. Every player he has on the floor is his pick, his teachings. How much has Sampson learned and improved as a player since he was a freshman. How much has Tubby developed him?
People think that because Tubby had some success at UK it meant he was automatically going to be the same at Minn.
People and coaches change. Was Bobby Knight the same at the end of his career as he was in his hey day? How about Denny Crumb. Many coaches fade as they approach the end of their career and Tubby is no different.
Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting, did I mention Recruiting.
Ask yourself If you are a top 10 prospect who wants to go to the NBA as most of the top 10 prospects have dreams of. Are you going to a school where the coach preaches offense and gives you the freedom to learn and showcase offense to get ready for the next level or are you going to pick Tubby where the only words out of his mouth are DEFENSE. Where instead of being allowed to score you spend your whole college career getting ready to play defense? Like it or not the top picks don't want to play for Tubby. Those are the cold hard facts, like it or not.
The kids of today know how each coach runs his team. Tubby is known as a coach who builds his game around defense and that is not going to get the best players, plain and simple.
As I said, Tubby has had some bad luck but with Tubby it is always something, always.
Tubby is doing at Minn what he did the last few years at KY. He racks up his wins by getting little wins over the cupcake schools, then plucks off enough ( just enough) in conference to get to 20. People think he's great because he wins 20 and the Tubby Myth rolls on. When it comes to playing equal or greater competition the mask comes off.
But his fans fall back on that 20 wins like its gold even though most teams play 30 plus games a year now and winning 20 isn't what it used to be.
5 years ago I made a prediction on this board
Tubby would win 20 games most, if not each year.
He would finish in the middle of the Big Ten each year.
He would get post season play each year but not any big wins.
He would NEVER get to the Sweet 16
When he got ready to retire he would groom Saul for the job.
So far I'm pretty close as we are still waiting on Saul
I am sure I going to get ripped for this post but know this fans, Tubby has already peaked at Minn in the first couple of years he has been here. He has already given the fans the most excitement they are going to get out of him when he turned Monson's team around. It is going to be mediocre basketball at best as long as he remains.
MNGreatest
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I agree, but not with the fact the top players don't want to play for him. I don't know the exact list, but NBA players from 97-07 under Tubby at Kentucky has got to be a good number.
If I'm not mistaken, Dutcher once had the best recruiting class in the nation and later won a B1G Championship. Granted it was a long time ago but I refuse to believe that Minnesota is incapable of being a consistent winner. Tubby may or may not be the guy, but I will maintain hope that the right guy is out there that can and will create a culture of winning for Gopher basketball. It's still the best show in town.
Cheating, Cheating, Cheating, did everyone mention Cheating?
It will be highly entertaining when people descend on the Kentucky boards to let them know we all warned you about Calivacate and Cheating.
nuggett said:
I didn't realize NBA players don't play defense. That Kobe Bryant is one silly guy when he says that word, huh? I can't believe they insult Dwight Howard by giving him defensive awards or insult Ron artest by saying he is a shut down defender.
Defense wins championships. Ask the Boston celtics, who's starting PG played for ... Well, you know the answer.
How can anyone complain about Tubby's brand of basketball in the plodding B10? In the past three years the Gophers have had more fast-break dunks than in the previous 10. They have talent deficits, but I'd rather watch that style of play any day.
Regarding Bo Ryan/Wisconsin; they have a number of things going for them that the Gophers do not, including statewide love for their flagship university and local Madison media that....are you ready for this...really covers their local college teams in depth and in a generally sympathetic tone. No backhanded compliments needed Mr. lame-ass sports columnist.
Regarding Bo Ryan/Wisconsin; they have a number of things going for them that the Gophers do not, including statewide love for their flagship university and local Madison media that....are you ready for this...really covers their local college teams in depth and in a generally sympathetic tone. No backhanded compliments needed Mr. lame-ass sports columnist.
Mbakwe's injury is clearly another in a sequence of all too many dark moments for Minnesota sports programs. But I think our first concern should be for Trevor. He has suffered far more than his fair share of misfortune. I won't repeat again my earlier analysis, but I think the sexual assault charges against him were questionable, and that his automatic suspension two years ago should have been lifted. It's to his credit that he remained at Minnesota. I think we all owe him a great deal for the contribution he has made to Minnesota Basketball. It would be wonderful if he could be given another year of college eligibility - and I think that would be the right thing to do - but more importantly I hope that he will fully recover from his injuries and go onto to have a good life.
For those of you who believe that Minnesota can never succeed in football and basketball, I strongly disagree. We once had one of the best football programs in the country. Wisconsin, with a climate similar to our own, overcame years of mediocrity, to become very competitive in both sports. Minnesota has a lot to offer. It's academically a good school, has a nice campus, and located in what I believe is one of the most attractive metropolitan areas in the country.
For those of you who believe that Minnesota can never succeed in football and basketball, I strongly disagree. We once had one of the best football programs in the country. Wisconsin, with a climate similar to our own, overcame years of mediocrity, to become very competitive in both sports. Minnesota has a lot to offer. It's academically a good school, has a nice campus, and located in what I believe is one of the most attractive metropolitan areas in the country.
Lots of excuses
Tubby has had 5 years. He did better at Kentucky with somebody else's recruits and the same is true here. He can't judge talent or talent won't talk to him...he can't attract talent that doesn't have issues. He can't get along with the players he does recruit.
The prospect of anyone emerging to lead the present group of players is a long shot from the games I have seen. Some should have never been recruited. Who can you point to that has gotten better under Tubby's staff? (Take away just being a year older)
Lots of coaches could do better. And ya...many could do worse, but Tubby leaving would offer hope.
Tubby has had 5 years. He did better at Kentucky with somebody else's recruits and the same is true here. He can't judge talent or talent won't talk to him...he can't attract talent that doesn't have issues. He can't get along with the players he does recruit.
The prospect of anyone emerging to lead the present group of players is a long shot from the games I have seen. Some should have never been recruited. Who can you point to that has gotten better under Tubby's staff? (Take away just being a year older)
Lots of coaches could do better. And ya...many could do worse, but Tubby leaving would offer hope.