If this team gets hot at the end of the year...

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If the team can pull it together and make a nice run like they did at the end of last season.....best case scenario is finishing 10-8, making a nice run in the big ten tournament while beating Wisconsin.

Then making a nice run in the ncaa tournament while wisconsin loses in the first round. Oh happy day.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
There has to be a problem for there to be a solution.
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The problem is Tubby will have been here for 6 years and still has yet to finish higher than 6th in the league. That's not acceptable.

I've been a huge supporter of Tubby, even when seemingly everyone on GH has a meltdown following a loss and calls for his job immediately. I gave him a pass on most of the earlier years because of injuries/transfers while many continue to howl about it.

But a lot of the rollercoaster fans here are again falling prey to the same type of emotional responses that accompany bad losses. Just because we beat Indiana and then brutalized Penn State does not mean all is well in the bigger picture. A good run in a postseason tournament doesn't change anything about what has happened in the regular season; its nothing more than a bandaid. The NIT run last year felt good because I think most people would agree that the team underachieved in the regular season, and we felt that our postseason chain of victories was more indicative of this team's true ability than its 6-12 B1G record.

A good B1G tourney/NCAA run doesn't change the fact that the way this this team has been managed/coached has major deficiencies. I have constantly said that the only way Tubby is fired is either a major scandal or missing the NCAA tournament. Well we are making the big dance this year, but how deep we go will definitely impact what offseason moves are made on the coaching staff.

If Tubby doesn't want to do a lot of the legwork in recruiting anymore I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't particularly have a coherent offensive system its not the end of the world. But if that's going to be his mentality he has got to have people on his staff that can do those things for him. Bring in a younger and offensive minded assistant who won't mind the long hours on the road for recruiting trips.

My only issue with Tubby in that respect is I don't think he will bring in new people unless he is absolutely forced too, its never been his m.o.

I like Tubby and would like him as our coach for a longer time if possible, but he seems unwilling to address the issues that are clearly apparent with this team and the program. If he doesn't shake things up on his staff the resulting frustration will just make me further wonder if we would be better off in the long term going in a different direction.
 

The U needs to hire you to coach Tubby on organizational success strategies.
westcoastgopher11 said:
The problem is Tubby will have been here for 6 years and still has yet to finish higher than 6th in the league. That's not acceptable.

I've been a huge supporter of Tubby, even when seemingly everyone on GH has a meltdown following a loss and calls for his job immediately. I gave him a pass on most of the earlier years because of injuries/transfers while many continue to howl about it.

But a lot of the rollercoaster fans here are again falling prey to the same type of emotional responses that accompany bad losses. Just because we beat Indiana and then brutalized Penn State does not mean all is well in the bigger picture. A good run in a postseason tournament doesn't change anything about what has happened in the regular season; its nothing more than a bandaid. The NIT run last year felt good because I think most people would agree that the team underachieved in the regular season, and we felt that our postseason chain of victories was more indicative of this team's true ability than its 6-12 B1G record.

A good B1G tourney/NCAA run doesn't change the fact that the way this this team has been managed/coached has major deficiencies. I have constantly said that the only way Tubby is fired is either a major scandal or missing the NCAA tournament. Well we are making the big dance this year, but how deep we go will definitely impact what offseason moves are made on the coaching staff.

If Tubby doesn't want to do a lot of the legwork in recruiting anymore I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't particularly have a coherent offensive system its not the end of the world. But if that's going to be his mentality he has got to have people on his staff that can do those things for him. Bring in a younger and offensive minded assistant who won't mind the long hours on the road for recruiting trips.

My only issue with Tubby in that respect is I don't think he will bring in new people unless he is absolutely forced too, its never been his m.o.

I like Tubby and would like him as our coach for a longer time if possible, but he seems unwilling to address the issues that are clearly apparent with this team and the program. If he doesn't shake things up on his staff the resulting frustration will just make me further wonder if we would be better off in the long term going in a different direction.
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westcoastgopher11 said:
The problem is Tubby will have been here for 6 years and still has yet to finish higher than 6th in the league. That's not acceptable.

I've been a huge supporter of Tubby, even when seemingly everyone on GH has a meltdown following a loss and calls for his job immediately. I gave him a pass on most of the earlier years because of injuries/transfers while many continue to howl about it.

But a lot of the rollercoaster fans here are again falling prey to the same type of emotional responses that accompany bad losses. Just because we beat Indiana and then brutalized Penn State does not mean all is well in the bigger picture. A good run in a postseason tournament doesn't change anything about what has happened in the regular season; its nothing more than a bandaid. The NIT run last year felt good because I think most people would agree that the team underachieved in the regular season, and we felt that our postseason chain of victories was more indicative of this team's true ability than its 6-12 B1G record.

A good B1G tourney/NCAA run doesn't change the fact that the way this this team has been managed/coached has major deficiencies. I have constantly said that the only way Tubby is fired is either a major scandal or missing the NCAA tournament. Well we are making the big dance this year, but how deep we go will definitely impact what offseason moves are made on the coaching staff.

If Tubby doesn't want to do a lot of the legwork in recruiting anymore I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't particularly have a coherent offensive system its not the end of the world. But if that's going to be his mentality he has got to have people on his staff that can do those things for him. Bring in a younger and offensive minded assistant who won't mind the long hours on the road for recruiting trips.

My only issue with Tubby in that respect is I don't think he will bring in new people unless he is absolutely forced too, its never been his m.o.

I like Tubby and would like him as our coach for a longer time if possible, but he seems unwilling to address the issues that are clearly apparent with this team and the program. If he doesn't shake things up on his staff the resulting frustration will just make me further wonder if we would be better off in the long term going in a different direction.
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Kind of hard to finish higher than sixth when you don't have better players than the five teams ahead of you.
 




Well said. I could live with Tubby for awhile longer if he brought in an offensive guru to really shore up the lack of efficiency and lack of movement on that end. Even in the Penn State game there were times when the kids would pass and then just stand there. It's aggravating to watch them kill ball movement on a consistent basis.

westcoastgopher11 said:
The problem is Tubby will have been here for 6 years and still has yet to finish higher than 6th in the league. That's not acceptable.

I've been a huge supporter of Tubby, even when seemingly everyone on GH has a meltdown following a loss and calls for his job immediately. I gave him a pass on most of the earlier years because of injuries/transfers while many continue to howl about it.

But a lot of the rollercoaster fans here are again falling prey to the same type of emotional responses that accompany bad losses. Just because we beat Indiana and then brutalized Penn State does not mean all is well in the bigger picture. A good run in a postseason tournament doesn't change anything about what has happened in the regular season; its nothing more than a bandaid. The NIT run last year felt good because I think most people would agree that the team underachieved in the regular season, and we felt that our postseason chain of victories was more indicative of this team's true ability than its 6-12 B1G record.

A good B1G tourney/NCAA run doesn't change the fact that the way this this team has been managed/coached has major deficiencies. I have constantly said that the only way Tubby is fired is either a major scandal or missing the NCAA tournament. Well we are making the big dance this year, but how deep we go will definitely impact what offseason moves are made on the coaching staff.

If Tubby doesn't want to do a lot of the legwork in recruiting anymore I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't particularly have a coherent offensive system its not the end of the world. But if that's going to be his mentality he has got to have people on his staff that can do those things for him. Bring in a younger and offensive minded assistant who won't mind the long hours on the road for recruiting trips.

My only issue with Tubby in that respect is I don't think he will bring in new people unless he is absolutely forced too, its never been his m.o.

I like Tubby and would like him as our coach for a longer time if possible, but he seems unwilling to address the issues that are clearly apparent with this team and the program. If he doesn't shake things up on his staff the resulting frustration will just make me further wonder if we would be better off in the long term going in a different direction.
Click to expand...
 

tinyarch said:
Well said. I could live with Tubby for awhile longer if he brought in an offensive guru to really shore up the lack of efficiency and lack of movement on that end. Even in the Penn State game there were times when the kids would pass and then just stand there. It's aggravating to watch them kill ball movement on a consistent basis.
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Ya for most of 11-12 I used RSIII as the scapegoat for the offense's inability to move the ball well, but its definitely not an isolated problem.

I will say Teague needs to do something about it, he can't just let Tubby coast especially at such a vital time for fundraising/facilities.

Why doesn't Teague use his contacts at Villa 7 and get together a list of younger assistants that have potential? He and Tubby could agree on someone to pick up the slack in areas Tubby doesn't want to focus on at this stage in his career.

Who knows, maybe someday down the line that assistant could be the bright up and comer that wouldn't view this job as a stepping stone to a higher profile gig? An unspoken coach-in-waiting kind of thing. Having someone come of age as a coach in this program and be a legitimate talent would be an exciting prospect.
 



tinyarch said:
Well said. I could live with Tubby for awhile longer if he brought in an offensive guru to really shore up the lack of efficiency and lack of movement on that end. Even in the Penn State game there were times when the kids would pass and then just stand there. It's aggravating to watch them kill ball movement on a consistent basis.
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LOL...
 


XMan said:
If the team can pull it together and make a nice run like they did at the end of last season.....best case scenario is finishing 10-8, making a nice run in the big ten tournament while beating Wisconsin.

Then making a nice run in the ncaa tournament while wisconsin loses in the first round. Oh happy day.
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Kind of pathetic when people think Wisconsin plays a role in the assessment of our season. Wisconsin should be a benchmark for what a program can become when an administration directs the proper resources (see Wisconsin sports before the early 1990s)
 




westcoastgopher11 said:
Ya for most of 11-12 I used RSIII as the scapegoat for the offense's inability to move the ball well, but its definitely not an isolated problem.

I will say Teague needs to do something about it, he can't just let Tubby coast especially at such a vital time for fundraising/facilities.

Why doesn't Teague use his contacts at Villa 7 and get together a list of younger assistants that have potential? He and Tubby could agree on someone to pick up the slack in areas Tubby doesn't want to focus on at this stage in his career.

Who knows, maybe someday down the line that assistant could be the bright up and comer that wouldn't view this job as a stepping stone to a higher profile gig? An unspoken coach-in-waiting kind of thing. Having someone come of age as a coach in this program and be a legitimate talent would be an exciting prospect.
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Dream scenario is Sweet 16 and Tubby gets hired away by a program that doesn't throw up on the requirement that Saul comes with Tubby!!
 



westcoastgopher11 said:
Maturi is gone now.

And you are really ducking and weaving to avoid the obvious here.
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What is the obvious? That Tubby is a bad coach? We all have our own opinion and I for one don't think he is a bad coach.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
What is the obvious? That Tubby is a bad coach? We all have our own opinion and I for one don't think he is a bad coach.
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The obvious is that the status quo isn't getting it done.

If Tubby doesn't shake the staff up at all what else can you really point to? What explains this team's and Tubby's inability to finish in the top half of the conference?
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
The obvious is that the status quo isn't getting it done.

If Tubby doesn't shake the staff up at all what else can you really point to? What explains this team's and Tubby's inability to finish in the top half of the conference?
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Lack of facilities to get top players in the conference and for players to develop.
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
The obvious is that the status quo isn't getting it done.

If Tubby doesn't shake the staff up at all what else can you really point to? What explains this team's and Tubby's inability to finish in the top half of the conference?
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So getting to the sweet 16 or elite 8 wouldn't be getting it done? What would be?

Personally, who cares about big ten record. Tourney success please.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
Lack of facilities to get top players in the conference and for players to develop.
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He has had plenty of good players come to MN, just has not kept them here. Last two years you could argue that recruiting is not been great, but prior to that he had been bringing in pretty highly rated players. The biggest issue is the players have left the program. Maybe it is not all on Tubs, but if they had stayed and he had a pair of sweet 16's under his belt there would be a lot less bad mouthing going on.

Do you honestly think if the build a practice facility that this turns into a top 4 conference job? Top 6? Just curious to your thoughts?
 

gopherbadgerman said:
He has had plenty of good players come to MN, just has not kept them here. Last two years you could argue that recruiting is not been great, but prior to that he had been bringing in pretty highly rated players. The biggest issue is the players have left the program. Maybe it is not all on Tubs, but if they had stayed and he had a pair of sweet 16's under his belt there would be a lot less bad mouthing going on.

Do you honestly think if the build a practice facility that this turns into a top 4 conference job? Top 6? Just curious to your thoughts?
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No, so why expect amazing results?
 

jamalo said:
Kind of pathetic when people think Wisconsin plays a role in the assessment of our season. Wisconsin should be a benchmark for what a program can become when an administration directs the proper resources (see Wisconsin sports before the early 1990s)
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Not saying wisconsin plays a role in the assessment of our program. Just live in wisconsin surrounded by badger fans. Nothing would be better than knocking them off and moving forward. Not saying our success depends on this, just saying in my dream finish, we pound the skunks.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
No, so why expect amazing results?
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no matter who the coach is at Minnesota you're climbing a hill. You have Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio State, Wisconsin all staring down at you. Minnesota has a total of 11 NCAA tournament appearances, 4 which have been erased so really 7 fixing to be 8. Tubby will have 3 of your 8 appearances at the end of this year. That's almost half and it's also called getting it done. The things Tubby has going for him is that he has taken 4 different teams to the Big Dance, won a national title, been coach of the year, gone undefeated in a Big 6 conference so the national media is going to be on his side. Minnesota's arrow is pointing up despite what some of you think.

Good tournament success this year will only add to that. I mean how many other coaches at Minnesota have gone to 3 ncaa tournaments in 6 years?.. ummm.. 1 and he had to cheat to do it. You detractors have absolutely zero arguement based on the history of your program. He's exceeding expectations based on your history. Get some of those good kids from the 2014 class and he can ride off into the sunset after about 2017 and probably be considered the most successful coach in Minnesota history. I'm rooting for these guys because my UK boys probably won't even make the NCAA tournament this year so I'm rooting for Tubby.
 

notagopherfan said:
no matter who the coach is at Minnesota you're climbing a hill. You have Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio State, Wisconsin all staring down at you. Minnesota has a total of 11 NCAA tournament appearances, 4 which have been erased so really 7 fixing to be 8. Tubby will have 3 of your 8 appearances at the end of this year. That's almost half and it's also called getting it done. The things Tubby has going for him is that he has taken 4 different teams to the Big Dance, won a national title, been coach of the year, gone undefeated in a Big 6 conference so the national media is going to be on his side. Minnesota's arrow is pointing up despite what some of you think.

Good tournament success this year will only add to that. I mean how many other coaches at Minnesota have gone to 3 ncaa tournaments in 6 years?.. ummm.. 1 and he had to cheat to do it. You detractors have absolutely zero arguement based on the history of your program. He's exceeding expectations based on your history. Get some of those good kids from the 2014 class and he can ride off into the sunset after about 2017 and probably be considered the most successful coach in Minnesota history. I'm rooting for these guys because my UK boys probably won't even make the NCAA tournament this year so I'm rooting for Tubby.
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You're going to get killed for this comment but I couldn't agree more.
 

notagopherfan said:
no matter who the coach is at Minnesota you're climbing a hill. You have Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio State, Wisconsin all staring down at you. Minnesota has a total of 11 NCAA tournament appearances, 4 which have been erased so really 7 fixing to be 8. Tubby will have 3 of your 8 appearances at the end of this year. That's almost half and it's also called getting it done. The things Tubby has going for him is that he has taken 4 different teams to the Big Dance, won a national title, been coach of the year, gone undefeated in a Big 6 conference so the national media is going to be on his side. Minnesota's arrow is pointing up despite what some of you think.

Good tournament success this year will only add to that. I mean how many other coaches at Minnesota have gone to 3 ncaa tournaments in 6 years?.. ummm.. 1 and he had to cheat to do it. You detractors have absolutely zero arguement based on the history of your program. He's exceeding expectations based on your history. Get some of those good kids from the 2014 class and he can ride off into the sunset after about 2017 and probably be considered the most successful coach in Minnesota history. I'm rooting for these guys because my UK boys probably won't even make the NCAA tournament this year so I'm rooting for Tubby.
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Believe me I know historically where Tubby stacks up in the history of Gopher basketball coaches. Obviously we haven't had good conference success during his tenure but his overall winning percentage stacks up favorably. I'm just of the opinion that consistent success in-conference, especially in a league like the B1G, is more important for long term program development than a one off appearance deep in the tournament.

UK will find their way into the tournament I wouldn't worry, but I do have a few questions for a Wildcat fan. What were the main complaints about Tubby at the end of his tenure at UK? Was his recruiting criticized? Was he seen as flexible about his staff? Was his style of play popular/effective?
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
Believe me I know historically where Tubby stacks up in the history of Gopher basketball coaches. Obviously we haven't had good conference success during his tenure but his overall winning percentage stacks up favorably. I'm just of the opinion that consistent success in-conference, especially in a league like the B1G, is more important for long term program development than a one off appearance deep in the tournament.

UK will find their way into the tournament I wouldn't worry, but I do have a few questions for a Wildcat fan. What were the main complaints about Tubby at the end of his tenure at UK? Was his recruiting criticized? Was he seen as flexible about his staff? Was his style of play popular/effective?
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The main complaints at UK were style of play, recruiting and his staff. His style of play was not one that a lot of UK fans liked, much like Joe B Hall. He wasn't going to win this battle from day. I liked the hire from day 1 though because I knew we were getting a very good coach.

After Pitino resurecting the program it was a tough act to follow. But much like Joe B Hall, Tubby won a national title when no one expected it. I don't think there was any way Pitino wins a title with that 98 team, though they were good, the 84 and 97 teams had way more talent and didn't win it all.

Recruiting was an issue, after recruiting the #1 class in 2004, the 05 and 06 were pretty bad but up until then it was good. By the time he had left he had fixed it as he had verbals from (Green, Frease, Sampson, Lucas, Patterson and others) but those 2 years cost him a lot of wins. I will point out that he didn't take a single member of his staff with him to Minnesota but the big hang up was Saul. Nepitism rules wouldn't allow him to bring in Saul so he walked. I think he might have stayed had it not been for that because there was no way they were going to fire him at least not that year. Plus, the recruiting was ticking up to where it should have been. I don't so much care about star power as I do wins but when you don't have stars or a lot of wins it opens you up to be criticized for both and that's what happened in 05 and 06. After Rondo and Morris were gone all we had was Joe Crawford and a freshman named Jodie Meeks. Like I said, I think it was going to get a whole lot better but I think the pressure of a UK can only be sustained for so long so it was best he left. I know he's a great coach though. Even Cal says he won't be here more than 10 years.
 

you can feel pretty confident that Minnesota could beat UK this year. If UK somehow makes it in the NCAA tournament don't put it past the NCAA to match the 2 of them up in a first or 2nd round match up. We suck this year. We don't do anything well. We don't defend, rebound or shoot well. We suck at free throws, they play stupidly and all you have to do is full court press us to speed us up and we're done but once in a while you something great but they have nothing to hang their hat on. At least Minnesota rebounds, blocks shots and plays good defense consistently. When your shots are falling, you're a very hard team to beat which is why I think they get to at least the Sweet 16. They could go as far as the final 4 though too. There is not 1 dominant team in College B Ball this year. Good Luck I'll be rooting for them too.
 

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