If the Vikes stay it looks like they'll need to play in TCF Bank Stadium

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Dean S said:
I read recently that the gaming casinos are not prospering like they once did. Downturn in the economy still effecting gaming. So, under the current climate, additional gaming will not bring in more money but water it down for everybody. Not really an option.
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HA! what a red herring they threw out there. don't buy it. that statement by the indian tribes is crap. just trying to protect their illegal monopoly on casino style gaming in our sovereign state of minnesota. of which they are not citizens.......according to them. how does one get to have a monopoly on something in a state when they don't consider themselves citizens of said state?????? what a joke.
 

jovs said:
The Gophers were never railroaded into the dome, there was no one at the U including administration, football coaches, and big contributors that didn't want to move into the dome, even though there was a fairly large contingent of fans that wanted Memorial to be saved and rehabbed in the interim.
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That is exactly how I remember it. What they should have done is play in the Metrodome while a new stadium was being built on the grounds of Memorial stadium. ;) I really did like the feel of that place it gave people the feeling of tradition and the history of winning.
 

supadupafly said:
just trying to protect their illegal monopoly on casino style gaming in our sovereign state of minnesota.
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So much wrong here. If it was illegal it wouldn't be happening. Those opposed would have shut it down or be in court over it right now. Your dislike of something does not make it illegal. Also, per the always handy Wikipedia, I'm pretty sure the state doesn't actually have the ability to regulate Indian gaming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act), per federal statue and Supreme Court rulings.

So, this is where I get off your lawn so that you can keep railing against the "illegal monopoly" that isn't illegal.

EDIT: And here is the Legislature's own info on the issue: http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/ss/ssindgamb.htm#Q2
Summary?
- The federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act authorizes gambling on Indian land
- A state’s authority to control gambling is limited
- States negotiate compacts with tribes
- States can’t tax Indian gambling to raise general revenue

Please, return to your linguistic gymnastics with the word "illegal". I'm hoping to see it look like a pretzel by this afternoon.
 

they don't regulate it on indian reservations, sure. but they underhandedly gave sovereign from our state indian tribes what most would consider to be an illegal monopoly of casino style gaming by not allowing non-indians to open casinos elsewhere in the state on non-res land. it is all a bunch of crap and nothing more than a sweetheart deal (with lots of political campaign donation money thrown in) given to them by the DFL party back in the late 80's.
 

jovs said:
The Gophers were never railroaded into the dome, there was no one at the U including administration, football coaches, and big contributors that didn't want to move into the dome, even though there was a fairly large contingent of fans that wanted Memorial to be saved and rehabbed in the interim.
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Oh yes they were. The Vikings were driving that train and they cowed both the Twins and Gophers into the cattle cars. Just because the administration (and Sid) didn't put up much of a fight didn't matter.
 


50PoundHead said:
Oh yes they were. The Vikings were driving that train and they cowed both the Twins and Gophers into the cattle cars. Just because the administration (and Sid) didn't put up much of a fight didn't matter.
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+1 Heaven and Earth was being moved to give the Vikings what they wanted. I'm so glad we have TCF Bank Stadium, because otherwise, we'd be again forced to be tenants to the Vikings.

I'm not opposed to the Vikings, but their interests are not the interests of the Gophers. I'm not opposed to the Vikings being tenants at TCF for a time, as long as the U benefits.
 

supadupafly said:
they don't regulate it on indian reservations, sure. but they underhandedly give sovereign from our state indian tribes what most would consider to be an illegal monopoly of casino style gaming by not allowing non-indians to open casinos elsewhere in the state on non-res land. it is all a bunch of crap and nothing more than a sweetheart deal (with lots of campaign donation money thrown in) given to them by the DFL party back in the late 80's.
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The deal could change at any time if the legislature wanted to. In fact, if this is a DFL deal there would be no better time then now to change it since Republicans control the legislature. But you are completely correct that the lobbying results in a lot of PAC money going to legislators. There is noticeably no push from Republicans (as a whole) to change things either. They are now a bigger recipient of that gambling PAC money. It's no longer a "DFL sweetheart deal" problem.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You and I will both live and die with the Gophers regardless of their current state, but very few people are wired that way. None of that has anything to do with the Vikings.
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It is likely that more people would become wired that way over time if there were only one football option in town. Not everyone, but some. Every little bit helps.

My whole stance on this topic is that you don't have to agree with my viewpoint. Some like the Vikings too much to want to give them up, I get that. Not that you're one of these people, but I cringe whenever people try to dismiss the Vikings presence in this media market as having no effect on the Gophers. It is beyond naive.

i just wish more people felt like me when it comes to this University. It would begin to help solve the many problems with our revenue sports.
 

josh087 said:
It is likely that more people would become wired that way over time if there were only one football option in town. Not everyone, but some. Every little bit helps.

My whole stance on this topic is that you don't have to agree with my viewpoint. Some like the Vikings too much to want to give them up, I get that. Not that you're one of these people, but I cringe whenever people try to dismiss the Vikings presence in this media market as having no effect on the Gophers. It is beyond naive.

i just wish more people felt like me when it comes to this University. It would begin to help solve the many problems with our revenue sports.
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The thing about Minneapolis is that even without the Vikings there is still enough to do that there is a significant "distraction" you could say from the Gophers.
 



What is naive is thinking that getting rid of the Vikings will solve the Gophers' problems. Even if the Vikings leave, the NFL won't be gone for long, there will be a new team before long, and a new NFL stadium along with it. The Gophers won't fill up the empty space in the sports section, that will still be filled up with the NFL, and in particular with getting a new team here.
 

How many cities have gotten a new NFL team in the past 10 years?

There is no guarantee the NFL would EVER be back if the Vikings left. Especially if minnesota is unwilling to pay for a stadium. If we aren't going to pay for it with ownership help why does anyone think the legislature would in the near future without ownership help.


If the Vikings left tomorrow there likely wouldn't be an NFL team here before 2025.
 

Rosemountian said:
How many cities have gotten a new NFL team in the past 10 years?

There is no guarantee the NFL would EVER be back if the Vikings left. Especially if minnesota is unwilling to pay for a stadium. If we aren't going to pay for it with ownership help why does anyone think the legislature would in the near future without ownership help.


If the Vikings left tomorrow there likely wouldn't be an NFL team here before 2025.
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If the NFL let the Vikings leave they would try to find something to go between WI and WA. Whether that is Minnesota or not I can't say, but they would definitely try to fill that gap.
 

The NFL wants this market. If the Vikings leave, there will be a new NFL team and a new stadium, it will just cost a whole lot more. If the Vikings leave, getting a new NFL team will be the new populist angle, the opposition to a new stadium will vanish.
 



RodentRampage said:
The NFL wants this market. If the Vikings leave, there will be a new NFL team and a new stadium, it will just cost a whole lot more. If the Vikings leave, getting a new NFL team will be the new populist angle, the opposition to a new stadium will vanish.
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Much like when the original Browns left Cleveland, the franchise will finally win its first Super Bowl within five years, of course it'll be in a different city.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Much like when the original Browns left Cleveland, the franchise will finally win its first Super Bowl within five years, of course it'll be in a different city.
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The Stars won the Cup too. But let's stick it to Ziggy for the vague sense of self-satisfaction and chance of moderately increased attendance at Gopher games. That beats winning the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, get pumped for the 2019 Minnesota Jags.
 

RodentRampage said:
The NFL wants this market. If the Vikings leave, there will be a new NFL team and a new stadium, it will just cost a whole lot more. If the Vikings leave, getting a new NFL team will be the new populist angle, the opposition to a new stadium will vanish.
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Honestly the NFL doesn't care about a middle market. They care about profit margins and happiness of owners.
I don't think there will be much US expansion in the coming decades.
So that leaves moving teams. There are many markets to compete with.
The NFL isn't like MLB or NBA where you have to fill 41 or 81 home dates. An NFL franchise can be in any market in the country (see green bay, buffalo, Tampa).

If mn lost the Vikings to LA or anywhere, Minnesota would he competing with growing southern and western markets, a second team in LA or chicago ect.



I would bet you 1000 dollars if the Vikings leave it would take at least 15-20 years to get a new team.
 

RodentRampage said:
The NFL wants this market. If the Vikings leave, there will be a new NFL team and a new stadium, it will just cost a whole lot more. If the Vikings leave, getting a new NFL team will be the new populist angle, the opposition to a new stadium will vanish.
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The No New Taxes Crowd in Minnesota are never going away. If the NFL wants a franchise in Minnesota to replace the Vikings they and the new team owners will have to pay the large majority of the costs for a new stadium. The 15th largest market doesn't mean that much to them.
 

Rosemountian said:
Honestly the NFL doesn't care about a middle market. They care about profit margins and happiness of owners.
I don't think there will be much US expansion in the coming decades.
So that leaves moving teams. There are many markets to compete with.
The NFL isn't like MLB or NBA where you have to fill 41 or 81 home dates. An NFL franchise can be in any market in the country (see green bay, buffalo, Tampa).

If mn lost the Vikings to LA or anywhere, Minnesota would he competing with growing southern and western markets, a second team in LA or chicago ect.



I would bet you 1000 dollars if the Vikings leave it would take at least 15-20 years to get a new team.
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I think you're wrong. At the least, you're under-stating the MSP market. There are 32 teams. MSP is the #13 media market. They get top 10 TV ratings among NFL markets. They've sold out every game for 15 years. The NFL is not dying to be in small markets. Jacksonville and Buffalo aren't working out. Green Bay is the exception, but the true market is basically the entire state of Wisconsin. If the Vikings are in LA, MSP becomes the most attractive market to move to, and the Jags, Bills, Raiders and Chargers all may need places to go. Even if a second team goes to LA, the odds of Minnesota getting a team eventually is high. It might take 10 years, but it will happen. And that means those opposing this now are being as penny-wise and pound-foolish as those who didn't want to spend ~$10 million fixing up Met Center for the Stars.
 

The Twin Cities aren't a middle market. It's the about the #16 market in the country. If you look at the top metro areas, all of them except for Los Angeles have an NFL team. Tampa is the #19 metro area in the US. Green Bay is a relic from the early days of the NFL. It would be like of the Duluth Eskimos had survived. The only reason they are still there is they are owned by the fans. Aside from Los Angeles, the smallest metro area without an NFL team is Portland at #23.

31 of the NFL's 32 teams are in cities in the top 47 metro areas.
 

In a 32 team league anything lower than 12 is a middle market. Sorry guys.
 

The disagreement between howeda and me is I say 15 years and he says 10. Let's not pretend like we are that far apart.
 


Rosemountian said:
The disagreement between howeda and me is I say 15 years and he says 10. Let's not pretend like we are that far apart.
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You seem to be implying that it's likely they won't get one one at all. The NFL isn't very fast on the switch letting teams move these days, so any shift taking 10 years would not be surprising.
 

howeda7 said:
I think you're wrong. At the least, you're under-stating the MSP market. There are 32 teams. MSP is the #13 media market. They get top 10 TV ratings among NFL markets. They've sold out every game for 15 years. The NFL is not dying to be in small markets. Jacksonville and Buffalo aren't working out. Green Bay is the exception, but the true market is basically the entire state of Wisconsin. If the Vikings are in LA, MSP becomes the most attractive market to move to, and the Jags, Bills, Raiders and Chargers all may need places to go. Even if a second team goes to LA, the odds of Minnesota getting a team eventually is high. It might take 10 years, but it will happen. And that means those opposing this now are being as penny-wise and pound-foolish as those who didn't want to spend ~$10 million fixing up Met Center for the Stars.
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Agree 100%
 


howeda7 said:
You seem to be implying that it's likely they won't get one one at all. The NFL isn't very fast on the switch letting teams move these days, so any shift taking 10 years would not be surprising.
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It is very possible they don't get one any time soon. You seem to be implying it is a lock there will be a new team in a decade or so.


The NFL doesn't have the power to block any team from moving if they chose to.
 

Rosemountian said:
One and it has taken them how long to get a team? 17 years and counting?
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I don't think there has ever been a great public outcry to get a team back in LA, even now. That doesn't mean that would be the case in Minnesota. There are a lot of differences. For one, the Chargers are not far away. Also, a great many people who live there come from other places and root for other teams. Finally, they have 6 other professional teams and 2 major college football teams many of whom were more popular than the Raiders/Rams in any given year. Finally, the league enjoyed having the LA Boogeyman to get stadiums in other markets, but I think they figure they've just about tapped that out. The Vikings are by far the most popular team in MN and it's not even close. There will be a $%^ storm if they're allowed to leave and getting a team back will be a very popular political position.
 

I know Cleveland had a heck of a time getting an NFL franchise back after Modell bolted town. All it took was Drew Carey and the threat of a baseless lawsuit. The last two teams that moved had replacements playing in new stadiums within about five years.
 

Who ever came up with the term small market team with population size less than 3 million should get a raise. He or she found a way to hood wink people.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I know Cleveland had a heck of a time getting an NFL franchise back after Modell bolted town. All it took was Drew Carey and the threat of a baseless lawsuit. The last two teams that moved had replacements playing in new stadiums within about five years.
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It was a very different NFL in the late 90s than it is today. I don't think the NFL is likely to expand a ton in the future.

If they do expand, obviously that would make getting a new team easier.
 

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