If PJ Fleck can be moderately successful here, why can’t a basketball coach?

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If PJ Fleck can be moderately successful here, why can’t a basketball coach?
 


You get what you put into the program.

Administration has invested in the football program. For whatever reason they have decided that investing in the basketball program at the same level is not worth it.

This goes farther than who the coach is.
 

scools12 said:
You get what you put into the program.

Administration has invested in the football program. For whatever reason they have decided that investing in the basketball program at the same level is not worth it.

This goes farther than who the coach is.
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Agree, but that investment includes hiring a proven coach
 



PJ can probably coach his football players to be better basketball players than the basketball coach can coach basketball players.
 

FinnGopher said:
Moderate success was Richard Pitino.
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Moderate success is winning 40-50% of your conference games. Clem Haskins won just under 50%. Tubby Smith won 43%. Dan Monson won 39%.

Richard Pitino won 34%. That's not moderate success, it's bad.

Ben Johnson has won 25% and that % is likely to drop this year. That's just pathetic.
 

howeda7 said:
Moderate success is winning 40-50% of your conference games. Clem Haskins won just under 50%. Tubby Smith won 43%. Dan Monson won 39%.

Richard Pitino won 34%. That's not moderate success, it's bad.

Ben Johnson has won 25% and that % is likely to drop this year. That's just pathetic.
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This.
 

howeda7 said:
Moderate success is winning 40-50% of your conference games. Clem Haskins won just under 50%. Tubby Smith won 43%. Dan Monson won 39%.

Richard Pitino won 34%. That's not moderate success, it's bad.

Ben Johnson has won 25% and that % is likely to drop this year. That's just pathetic.
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Pitino earned his firing, in part because his 34% should probably have been closer to 45% based on the high end talent he had on his rosters. But I believe that he was comparable to the success of PJ. Some bad years, some good, but in most years, we were a bubble ish team prior to the February tank. March is what matters to me and I always had at least a glimmer of hope at all times under the last regime.
 



howeda7 said:
Moderate success is winning 40-50% of your conference games. Clem Haskins won just under 50%. Tubby Smith won 43%. Dan Monson won 39%.

Richard Pitino won 34%. That's not moderate success, it's bad.

Ben Johnson has won 25% and that % is likely to drop this year. That's just pathetic.
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Let's go further:

Musselman 63%
Dutcher 52%
Clem 50%
Monson 39%
Tubby 43%
Pitino 34%
Ben 25%

Nearly straight down hill. Tubby was a brief mogul on the way to the bottom of the slope.
 

2 scandals in a 10 yr span set the U back. Then went to ‘never again land’.
 


Breakin' The Plane said:
I believe a coach who actually knows how to build a program can.
Maybe try hiring a coach with at least some experience and a proven track record next time.
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Did you already forget what happened this off-season? Building a team is obsolete.

To answer the original question:

Oh sure, there might be a coach who can use a strategy of being mediocre. But if we try to actually contend for anything...the players will get bought by other teams. Also, PJ's 1 contending team was a once-in-a-lifetime feat...and before free agency.
 



bga1 said:
Let's go further:

Musselman 63%
Dutcher 52%
Clem 50%
Monson 39%
Tubby 43%
Pitino 34%
Ben 25%

Nearly straight down hill. Tubby was a brief mogul on the way to the bottom of the slope.
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Nowhere to go but up.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Did you already forget what happened this off-season? Building a team is obsolete.

To answer the original question:

Oh sure, there might be a coach who can use a strategy of being mediocre. But if we try to actually contend for anything...the players will get bought by other teams. Also, PJ's 1 contending team was a once-in-a-lifetime feat...and before free agency.
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Building a team is all the NCAA is about now. Building a program might be obsolete. Anyone can pull together enough to take a big swing with enough cash.
 

bc2211 said:
But I believe that he was comparable to the success of PJ. Some bad years, some good, but in most years, we were a bubble ish team prior to the February tank.
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PJ has been here for 7 FULL seasons (not counting the short 2020 one). He's had two losing seasons among those. Pitino had four outright losing seasons out of his eight. No, they weren't comparable. A losing season isn't excused if the team was doing reasonably well through the first two thirds of it.
 




TwistingMyMelon said:
PJ has been here for 7 FULL seasons (not counting the short 2020 one). He's had two losing seasons among those. Pitino had four outright losing seasons out of his eight. No, they weren't comparable. A losing season isn't excused if the team was doing reasonably well through the first two thirds of it.
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I will continue to compare PJ to Pitino and there is nothing you can do about it. Pjs teams shoot themselves in the foot early in the season for most years to have real hope.

It really doesn’t matter. PJ has done just enough on the field to hang around. Pitino did the same for however many years. CBJ simply hasn’t risen to either level of success, however you want to classify it.
 



Breakin' The Plane said:
Building a team is all the NCAA is about now. Building a program might be obsolete. Anyone can pull together enough to take a big swing with enough cash.
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True. I meant that building a team has nothing to do with coaching. And our administration will never pay for good players.
 


beatles said:
You can win anywhere in college football and basketball. Look at Indiana football. Hired a good coach and they’re heading to the playoff. Find a coach and you will win.
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Every year, there are 1-2 football teams (out of 100) and 3-4 basketball teams (out of 300) that you can point to.

Yes, we here at Minnesota might have a contending team once every 40-50 years.
 

howeda7 said:
And when you win the NIL $$ will start to flow.
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Those $$ won't go to football or men's basketball.

And now I'm actually okay with that. I actually agree with our administration on that...albeit for very different reasons. They simply despise football & men's basketball. Me...if I want to watch pro sports, I'll watch the Vikings & Timberwolves...and not immerse myself totally into the sleaze.
 
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I don't think NIL would ever flow for the basketball team unless the next coach can put something on the court that year after year has an ncaa shot. Also, money to build a new court would help attract young people. As many have said old people like me like the barn, but most young people see it as old and it has no great recent history.

Someone like Neko, who has CSU in the ncaa 2 of the last 3 years, you would think would be getable?
 

They can have PJ success.
Ben had a team that would have had success this season had he kept last year's roster together. He should have been fired all those transfers left. If they don't have the bag to lure fresh studs every year, then then whatever coach you settle on, must keep the talent they attract/recruit here or we will always be terrible like we are now.
 

Somebody a few posts back said we could have kept Payne and Hawkins if we wanted to. Really? Did you have inside info?

I thought Ben was worth the risk when he was hired. Under the old rules, I think he might have had a chance to build something. Unfortunately for him, a revolution has taken place and his boss still acts like its 2019. Coyle's "We have to do things the right way" mantra plays very thin. The only way to succeed is to raise a boatload of money first and the players will find their way to your program. Absent that, the next coach will have the same results as Ben.
 

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