If Pitino had any guts.....

[Otis]

he would make a statement and start the next game by starting the following:

PG: Mashburn
SG: Kalesheur
SF: Williams
PF: Johnson
C: Robbins

He would impress on these guys and the entire team that they are starting because he believes they can focus on ball movement, defense, getting the ball inside, boxing out, defense and hitting the open man. He would also emphasize anyone wanting playing time had better buy into this way of playing because this is what we need to focus on in order to achieve our goals going forward.

A couple of notes:

Curry would be first substitution. Kalesheur would start because despite my severe dislike to his shooting ability, he plays the right way! Tre would be rewarded with his second consecutive start due to the brilliance of everything he did prior to the technical. Mashburn would be told to set up his teammates, move the ball and establish Robbins.

Wouldn't even care about the score. But I bet these guys, given the set-up I just lined out, would do just fine.

 

[HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving]

I do care about the score and I like the line up. Git er done Pitino

 

[tmvander]

Not disagreeing with you but if you've listened to Pitino he has said that they coach Carr to shoot quite a bit. I heard him tell Grimm and Gaard that Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots.

As much as I agree that Carr is sometimes part of the problem I don't see him sitting longer than he is unless guys around him literally never miss any shots.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Not disagreeing with you but if you've listened to Pitino he has said that they coach Carr to shoot quite a bit. I heard him tell Grimm and Gaard that Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots.

As much as I agree that Carr is sometimes part of the problem I don't see him sitting longer than he is unless guys around him literally never miss any shots.

The other issue is that Carr and Robbins are the only two on the team that consistently draw fouls and get to the line. And of those two, Carr is the only one that does it by creating his own shot.

Really like what Mashburn brings to the table but I don't know if he is ready to be the lead point guard yet.

 

[tmvander]

The other issue is that Carr and Robbins are the only two on the team that consistently draw fouls and get to the line. And of those two, Carr is the only one that does it by creating his own shot.

Really like what Mashburn brings to the table but I don't know if he is ready to be the lead point guard yet.

Yep, as much as he is frustrating at times we're better with Carr on the floor. Even if he isn't scoring at will defenses have to plan around him. With Mashburn on the floor its easier to just sag into the middle and let our guards jack 3s that they will all miss.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Yep, as much as he is frustrating at times we're better with Carr on the floor. Even if he isn't scoring at will defenses have to plan around him. With Mashburn on the floor its easier to just sag into the middle and let our guards jack 3s that they will all miss.

Not just the guards, Robbins, Johnson and Ihnen will stand out there shooting ill advised 3s as well. Now granted Robbins and Johnson hit a higher percentage of their 3s than Gach, Mashburn and Gabe (Ihnen should never be allowed to shoot a 3 again) but it is still frustrating to see them settle for a low percentage 3 far too often.

Carr is the one guy who will try to drive. Gach was doing it earlier in the year but has been pretty invisible in recent games. Gabe has just totally lost his shot, not sure what happened to him but he went from looking like he might one of the all time best 3 point shooters to ever play here to a guy who can't buy a 3 much of the time.

As you said, as frustrating as Carr is at times, this team needs him out there. Without him it is just a lot of standing around chucking up 3s.

 

[Lou Hudson]

Time for a tiny rant;
I remember an interview with John Wooden, long after his coaching days. Someone posed the question about a certain player who was able to "create his own shot." Wooden was a little baffled, and said something to the effect that basketball is a team game, and the purpose of running an offense was to get someone in a position to take an uncontested, high percentage shot.

My observation is that when an individual player is working hard to create his own shot, the other players are standing and watching. I know this is captain obvious, but this squad is able to run an offense for parts of a game, but slip into creating mode, and the end becomes predictable.
My two cents.

 

[DanvilleGopher]

Time for a tiny rant;
I remember an interview with John Wooden, long after his coaching days. Someone posed the question about a certain player who was able to "create his own shot." Wooden was a little baffled, and said something to the effect that basketball is a team game, and the purpose of running an offense was to get someone in a position to take an uncontested, high percentage shot.

My observation is that when an individual player is working hard to create his own shot, the other players are standing and watching. I know this is captain obvious, but this squad is able to run an offense for parts of a game, but slip into creating mode, and the end becomes predictable.
My two cents.

I really don't like the line I read above where Pitino has said 'Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots'. Wow, to me he is encouraging 'Hero Ball' which to me is completely wrong in a team game (unless Labron, Michael or Steph is on your team), certainly at the college level. This is enlightening and tells me why the team gets completely out of control at times and Pitino becomes a 'spectator, or fan' versus what he's suppose to be doing, which is to coach.

Carr is a good player, with Pitino's help (IF he was a true 'coach') he could become a great player, at the college level that is. I don't see him as an NBA player either, but that's my opinion. The problem here; he's getting zero help from his coach to try and make the jump to the next level. Letting your guard do as he wants, when he wants, is not coaching.

my .02

 

[Some guy]

Honestly there are games we need carr to shoot more than he does.
And there are games when he needs to shoot less

 

[UpAndUnder43]

I really don't like the line I read above where Pitino has said 'Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots'. Wow, to me he is encouraging 'Hero Ball' which to me is completely wrong in a team game (unless Labron, Michael or Steph is on your team), certainly at the college level. This is enlightening and tells me why the team gets completely out of control at times and Pitino becomes a 'spectator, or fan' versus what he's suppose to be doing, which is to coach.

Carr is a good player, and with Pitino's help (IF he was a true 'coach') he could become a great player, at the college level that is. I don't see him as an NBA player either, but that's my opinion. The problem here; he's getting zero help from his coach to try and make the jump to the next level. Letting your guard do as he wants, when he wants, is not coaching.

my .02

So one quote, which isn't even a quote but instead a brief summation of what a coach may or may not have said, is enough that Pitino doesn't coach and Carr is allowed to do whatever he wants.

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This reads like a conspiracy theorists on Reddit. Just my .02

 

[MaroonShaft]

Pitino is the problem. The fact that most of you can’t see that is p funny. The bandwagon knows.

 

[GopherNuts]

Mason played just like Carr does. Remember how irked people would get about Nate’s early possession pull up jumpers? Same approach, different players. The blame shouldn't be on Carr, he's being asked to be Mr. Everything for us as a creator for himself and others just like Gabe is still being given the green light to jack up 3's whenever he's got a half decent look at the basket. If it wasn't Carr, it would be Isaiah Washington doing the exact same thing, there's a reason IW was prioritized over other guards in that class.

 

[tmvander]

I really don't like the line I read above where Pitino has said 'Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots'. Wow, to me he is encouraging 'Hero Ball' which to me is completely wrong in a team game (unless Labron, Michael or Steph is on your team), certainly at the college level. This is enlightening and tells me why the team gets completely out of control at times and Pitino becomes a 'spectator, or fan' versus what he's suppose to be doing, which is to coach.

Carr is a good player, and with Pitino's help (IF he was a true 'coach') he could become a great player, at the college level that is. I don't see him as an NBA player either, but that's my opinion. The problem here; he's getting zero help from his coach to try and make the jump to the next level. Letting your guard do as he wants, when he wants, is not coaching.

my .02

I may have misquoted it but in the latest Gopher Basketball video with Gaard and Grimm he said something to that effect. I can't remember the EXACT wording, but Pitino had said that Marcus has a longer leash when it comes to "bad shots" and has earned the right to take a few without negative consequences. He said he doesn't WANT him to take them but the leash is longer.

 

[leib0039]

So obviously not knowing the kids personality, in todays day and age a lot of times that ends up in a mutiny. Im not saying it is right/wrong but if you bench kids now days they tend to go in the corner and whine. Again ZERO IDEA the kids personalities on the team, maybe it would spark them thats something the coach has to know.

Also, on the "Carr has earned the right to take some bad shots" well yah he has to at times because Pitino is a TERRIBLE offensive mind. I have mentioned this time and again but watch us out of timeouts, we stand for 20 seconds and then jack up a prayer. Those 3-5 times a game as supposed to be your "go to, this is a bucket 85% of the time plays" and we simply dont have those. We have overcome that a few games simply by guys catching fire. Its why we lose every road game by 20. Also mentioned above, Wooden didnt know why guys had to create their own shot, the offense should do that. WE DONT HAVE A COACH WHO HAS THOSE PLAYS/SETS!

 

[GopherJake]

Looking for some actual b-ball expertise here. I think one of their biggest problems is that Carr NEVER passes out of the pick-and-roll to the screener (roller?). In this past game vs. Purdue, they simply double teamed Carr every time, because he never passes it. I watched repeatedly what I viewed as a wide open "roller" with a clear path to the basket just running through the motions as the pass was never delivered. It seems to me that when the opposing defense chooses to double-team Carr high out on the perimeter, this really bottles up the offense and I believe it frustrates Carr. I'm not sure if it's Carr, Pitino or a combo.

Am I onto something here or on something?

 

[MRJ]

Looking for some actual b-ball expertise here. I think one of their biggest problems is that Carr NEVER passes out of the pick-and-roll to the screener (roller?). In this past game vs. Purdue, they simply double teamed Carr every time, because he never passes it. I watched repeatedly what I viewed as a wide open "roller" with a clear path to the basket just running through the motions as the pass was never delivered. It seems to me that when the opposing defense chooses to double-team Carr high out on the perimeter, this really bottles up the offense and I believe it frustrates Carr. I'm not sure if it's Carr, Pitino or a combo.

Am I onto something here or on something?

I certainly don't see myself as an expert, but I would argue it goes beyond just utilizing the pick-and-roll. Ball reversal, post entry passes as well as the pick-and-roll are all issues for this team. I've also noticed passing out of double teams to the opposite side is an issue. It's often too slow or doesn't come at all.

The bottom line for me with Carr is that his first instinct is to always put the ball on the deck and try to beat somebody one-one-one. It often results in a bunch of useless dribbling that clogs passing lanes and runs down the clock. From there, any semblance of offensive structure just goes out the window because everything breaks down. The ball stops moving and so do the players, which results in hurried or forced jump-shots as the clock expires or worse. There's also been plenty of times when he's gotten straight up picked because the opposition knows he's always looking to create for himself off the bounce.

All and all, this is an extremely frustrating offense to watch due to all the dribbling and lack of ball movement. And it's even more exasperating if Pitino is encouraging it.

 

[tmvander]

Looking for some actual b-ball expertise here. I think one of their biggest problems is that Carr NEVER passes out of the pick-and-roll to the screener (roller?). In this past game vs. Purdue, they simply double teamed Carr every time, because he never passes it. I watched repeatedly what I viewed as a wide open "roller" with a clear path to the basket just running through the motions as the pass was never delivered. It seems to me that when the opposing defense chooses to double-team Carr high out on the perimeter, this really bottles up the offense and I believe it frustrates Carr. I'm not sure if it's Carr, Pitino or a combo.

Am I onto something here or on something?

I think it depends a little. I've seen that option available but maybe they don't want the ball in the hands of their 7 ft center at the top of the key all the time? Also you'll watch a guy from the weak side sneaks over to guard the screener a lot as his man is across the court and can't be passed to.

Coming off that screen Marcus needs to look to pass, screener needs to cut inside more, shooters need to make shots

 

[DanvilleGopher]

So one quote, which isn't even a quote but instead a brief summation of what a coach may or may not have said, is enough that Pitino doesn't coach and Carr is allowed to do whatever he wants.

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This reads like a conspiracy theorists on Reddit. Just my .02

So; you're saying you see Pinto actively coaching Carr while the game is taking place? Do you see him doing any in game coaching? Not just with Carr (though he's the one touching the ball by far the most of anyone) but really, with anyone?? Frankly I don't see any in game coaching that takes place.

I don't and I don't think that's a conspiracy theory but to call me out for bringing this up and comparing this to Reddit sounds like that is where you're getting your info, not me and good luck with that.

 

[GopherJake]

I think it depends a little. I've seen that option available but maybe they don't want the ball in the hands of their 7 ft center at the top of the key all the time? Also you'll watch a guy from the weak side sneaks over to guard the screener a lot as his man is across the court and can't be passed to.

Coming off that screen Marcus needs to look to pass, screener needs to cut inside more, shooters need to make shots

You brought to mind something that was a staple of Clem Haskin (copyright Clem Haskin) offenses - the high-low set. I think we have big guys with good hands on this team, and I woudn't freak if they were set at the free throw line once in a while looking for cutters - even right off the screen and roll. My thing is that it infuriates me when I see Carr double teamed at the three point line, while he tries to dribble out of it. It chews up the shot clock, wears him out and we are still 25 feet from the basket. If he can't pass out of it, they will continue to double team him until he learns how to - or is coached to - pass instead of dribble.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

So; you're saying you see Pinto actively coaching Carr while the game is taking place? Do you see him doing any in game coaching? Not just with Carr (though he's the one touching the ball by far the most of anyone) but really, with anyone?? Frankly I don't see any in game coaching that takes place.

I don't and I don't think that's a conspiracy theory but to call me out for bringing this up and comparing this to Reddit sounds like that is where you're getting your info, not me and good luck with that.

Having attended nearly every home game of the Pitino era, he does indeed coach in game. I’m not privy to his practices but that is where you develop players, strategies, etc. He has had guys under him develop. I don’t think he is a great coach but one gopher holers summation of a radio interview isn’t enough for me to jump on Pitino. I watch the games and form opinions. Just because the TV doesn’t show you, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
He also has assistants talking to kids on the bench while he stands up and coaches the rest of the team.

 

[tmvander]

You brought to mind something that was a staple of Clem Haskin (copyright Clem Haskin) offenses - the high-low set. I think we have big guys with good hands on this team, and I woudn't freak if they were set at the free throw line once in a while looking for cutters - even right off the screen and roll. My thing is that it infuriates me when I see Carr double teamed at the three point line, while he tries to dribble out of it. It chews up the shot clock, wears him out and we are still 25 feet from the basket. If he can't pass out of it, they will continue to double team him until he learns how to - or is coached to - pass instead of dribble.

The gophers have had some success with the high low over the years under Pitino. Not all game, but every ten possessions or so. I've seen it less this year but still have seen it. It worked really well when we had Oturu and Murphy together a few years ago. I'm wondering if the personnel just aren't high/low types of players?

Robbins and Johnson seem to like the perimeter better than down low. Ihnen for sure isn't a high low guy. Curry I could see being around the free throw line and having some nice touch to a guy down low. I feel like when I've seen it at times this year he's been involved.

 

[GoodasGold]

Looking for some actual b-ball expertise here. I think one of their biggest problems is that Carr NEVER passes out of the pick-and-roll to the screener (roller?). In this past game vs. Purdue, they simply double teamed Carr every time, because he never passes it. I watched repeatedly what I viewed as a wide open "roller" with a clear path to the basket just running through the motions as the pass was never delivered. It seems to me that when the opposing defense chooses to double-team Carr high out on the perimeter, this really bottles up the offense and I believe it frustrates Carr. I'm not sure if it's Carr, Pitino or a combo.

Am I onto something here or on something?

Whatever your on I want a taste.

 

[Tucker32]

Not just the guards, Robbins, Johnson and Ihnen will stand out there shooting ill advised 3s as well. Now granted Robbins and Johnson hit a higher percentage of their 3s than Gach, Mashburn and Gabe (Ihnen should never be allowed to shoot a 3 again) but it is still frustrating to see them settle for a low percentage 3 far too often.

Carr is the one guy who will try to drive. Gach was doing it earlier in the year but has been pretty invisible in recent games. Gabe has just totally lost his shot, not sure what happened to him but he went from looking like he might one of the all time best 3 point shooters to ever play here to a guy who can't buy a 3 much of the time.

As you said, as frustrating as Carr is at times, this team needs him out there. Without him it is just a lot of standing around chucking up 3s.

Carr has talent and the team needs him. I think Pitino can start him, and even live with a couple of bad shots. However, when he spends 15-20 seconds dribbling and then takes a bad shot, take him out. Pitno has to start holding him accountable to that.

It is the pounding of the floor for the majority of a shot clock that has to stop. His teammates just quit moving, and you can see all the energy just stop. It carries over on the defensive end unfortunately. If he gets the ball and then attacks the basket, fine. Be decisive - attack the basket or move the ball. Just stop the dribbling for the majority of the clock and then take a long, contested shot. You can get that anytime.

 

[Otis]

Unfortunately, Pitino doesn't have the respect to make situational benching work. He's never done it. Players know they can do what they want and if he punishes them, they just quit on him completely.

I think he is out of rope.

 

[tmvander]

The one thing that kind of baffles me is that if this is the offense we plan on running what the heck did Isaiah Washington do to piss off Pitino? All the dribbling and crazy shot selection was right up his alley. Now, I know Carr is a much better player than Washington but still Washington was in the dog house his whole time here for basically doing what Carr does every night.

 

[cjbfbp]

Now, I know Carr is a much better player than Washington but still Washington was in the dog house his whole time here for basically doing what Carr does every night.

Actually, I thought Washington was a more willing passer than Carr and dribbled more to get open to pass than to score. Washington routinely passed to lesser players on the team like Hurt, Matz, and even Bakary. Part of that is I think Washington was schooled as a freshman and realized that he wasn't quite explosive or athletic enough to beat guys to the bucket in the Big Ten the way he did in high school. He also wasn't a very good shooter and I think he began to realize that. Carr is a better athlete, more explosive, a better shooter, and a better scorer than Washington. He has had some huge games so it's understandable if he would feel that he needs to be the guy when the Gophers get down.

 

[60's Guy]

The #1 problem is the standard Carr is allowed on defense. We defend with four people quite a bit.
Carr is allowed to create his own offense or lack there of without any emphasis or direction. He does what he wants on both ends. Pretty hard to be a team when your leader is not held accountable.
We played with four guys much of the second half versus Purdue.

 

[tmvander]

The #1 problem is the standard Carr is allowed on defense. We defend with four people quite a bit.
Carr is allowed to create his own offense or lack there of without any emphasis or direction. He does what he wants on both ends. Pretty hard to be a team when your leader is not held accountable.
We played with four guys much of the second half versus Purdue.

Yeah I watch him a lot on defense and he's lucky he isn't burned way more. He also doesn't box out at all and watches every opponent shot fly. He gets decent rebound numbers but its mostly because the ball bounces past his defender who is by the hoop.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I understand and agree with people's frustrations with Carr, but this is a Pitino norm. He's shown he wants ball dominant guards and they've gotten some extended leeway. His defenses have normally been awful with exception of this year being average and a couple years ago with Lynch. I just don't see any change and it's not a guts thing, it's what Richard wants.

 

[tmvander]

I understand and agree with people's frustrations with Carr, but this is a Pitino norm. He's shown he wants ball dominant guards and they've gotten some extended leeway. His defenses have normally been awful with exception of this year being average and a couple years ago with Lynch. I just don't see any change and it's not a guts thing, it's what Richard wants.

I agree. He's literally said the kids are playing to his and the other coaches coaching. Obviously if he didn't want Marcus to play like he does he wouldn't be playing 40 minutes a game. He wants Marcus to shoot a lot. I don't think he wants the amount of 3's taken we normally do.