If, if , if

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

If the Flip reports are true and it's:

If it's all been done for PR to cover for their homerun hire which is better than Flip- It had better be a knockout hire.

If they got turned down because they wanted control over Flips staff- then we have a real egomaniac piece of work in the AD office.

If Flip turned it down and it was only because he really wanted to be with the Wolves, then a lot of people should be pretty disappointed in Flip for leading us on for months.

If Teague thinks it's a smarter play to hire Enfield or Stephens or some Villa 7 assistant- he's on the hot seat. It's show me time with the fans and boosters.

I agree on all 4 points.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

I think Flip will be nice abot it but I don think he will lie for them. I think he will say that that U wanted a different kind of guy. I can tell you who won't cover for Teague: the local media. Barriero, Hartman, Reusse and the rest who are always ready to blast the Gopher program are going to be relentless on this one if it doesn't work out. What a golden opportunity missed in terms of PR. These guys would have given more support to Gopher buckets than it has gotten in years and years.

And you know what? As much as I hate those guys for being so negative all of the time, I will actually appreciate it, if this does go down badly, that we have a negative press that will rip Norwood to shreds.

And since I do not like those guys, here's hoping Norwood IS the brilliant bb mind that he supposedly is claimed to be, and that brilliance leads him to make the right choice, which imo, would be making whatever concessions need to be made to get Flip on board, especially if the only concession would be letting Ryan be a part of the staff.


I'm hoping Flip's turning down the job, will end up being just a negotiating step. Norwood asked if he was interested, Flip said yes, they started talking particulars, Norwood made a lowball offer, hoping Flip would simply accept it. He didn't. Now maybe, hopefully, Norwood goes back to Flip and says, ok, you can pick your own assistants, and then he comes on board.


If that happens, then I won't be mad at Norwood for trying. I think in a PERFECT world, most Flip supporters were hoping he wouldn't want his son on the staff. Not because we don't think he can do the job, but because we don't know, and because of the fact it was such an issue with Saul.

But people keep saying that Norwood's such a great bb mind, and that we should trust him. Well, why shouldn't we trust Flip when it comes to picking his staff?! He's a great bb mind, most agree about this. So lets trust him Norwood.

 

[John Galt]

Whether the interest in Flip was real or not, this much seems certain: it's moved well beyond the negotiating stage and Flip won't be coaching the Gophers next year.

 

[benlaur]

You don't like hard and fast rules like "you can hire an QUALIFIED assistant coaches" you'd like? I have no issue with Ryan Saunders. He just has no experience (outside of a scouting gig with the worst franchise in the NBA that he got from his father). If Ryan Saunders had more experience, I'd have no issues with him being part of the staff. However, I believe in the hard and fast rule of not allowing the coach to hire unqualified assistants if said assistants are related. That's an easy one.

What is qualified? Having done something for 20 years does not mean you are good at it. You either trust the judgment of the person you hire or they tell you to take a flying leap.

 

[lugnard]

The basketball program isn't even close to what the football program was when they hired Jerry Kill.

Basketball programs can unravel a lot faster - much shorter bench less depth. On the positive side they can rebuilt quicker too - one or two top recruiting classes and you are there.

Its just different.

 

[lugnard]

What is qualified? Having done something for 20 years does not mean you are good at it. You either trust the judgment of the person you hire or they tell you to take a flying leap.

I think Teague was happy he turned him down - didn't require that he say no first. Teague didn't have to tell him to take a flying leap. Flip jumped instead.

 

[goldengophers]

I think Teague was happy he turned him down - didn't require that he say no first. Teague didn't have to tell him to take a flying leap. Flip jumped instead.

Sinking Cunard

 

[benlaur]

FYI, in the real world, people are more comfortable with known commodities. Villa 7 is about familiarity. Flip Saunders is familiar to Gopher fans. Flip’s son is a known commodity to Flip. It sounds like opposing forces of familiarity collided. A true Villa 7 hire is a more risky hire than Flip. Flip is a known commodity. Villa 7 is for up and coming coaches and is by definition filled with more uncertainty. At minimum, flip would not have been a disaster hire. The uncertain hire currently comes with more risk for the program.

 

[John Galt]

There is no way that NT wanted to hire Flip but wouldn't because of Ryan. None.

 

[lugnard]

FYI, in the real world, people are more comfortable with known commodities. Villa 7 is about familiarity. Flip Saunders is familiar to Gopher fans. Flip’s son is a known commodity to Flip. It sounds like opposing forces of familiarity collided. A true Villa 7 hire is a more risky hire than Flip. Flip is a known commodity. Villa 7 is for up and coming coaches and is by definition filled with more uncertainty. At minimum, flip would not have been a disaster hire. The uncertain hire currently comes with more risk for the program.

He picks bad assistants - like family and old cronies - it very much would be a disaster. People have no idea how important assistants are. It isn't nearly as important that Flip be comfortable with them as is it is they ROCK in college recruiting and college player development [not pros].

There is no evidence Son of Flip has any of that. Nor the others. If people want this program to break out to the next level the person they hire has to be able to do that - get the best college assistants.

 

[MinneStoa]

I agree on all 4 points.

I think anyone with any sense of rationality would agree with all four points. I'm definitely hoping for the best with this situation, but with everything that's happened it's getting a bit more difficult to keep the optimism up.

 

[minny01]

There is no way that NT wanted to hire Flip but wouldn't because of Ryan. None.

I tend to agree with you. NT had no interest in bring in Flip and used the excuse of Flip's son to end all discussion.

 

[lugnard]

I tend to agree with you. NT had no interest in bring in Flip and used the excuse of Flip's son to end all discussion.

A fully reasonable requirement by Teague that Flip took as a poison pill. If so so be it. Move on.

 

[minny01]

A fully reasonable requirement by Teague that Flip took as a poison pill. If so so be it. Move on.

And you are showing your stupidity. The first rule of being a head coach is the ability to select your coaching staff. Anything else ends all discussion.

 

[tikited]

There is no way that NT wanted to hire Flip but wouldn't because of Ryan. None.

I have a hard time believing all of this is over an assistant coach. Has to be more to the story. All we know is that Norwood struck out again.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I have a hard time believing all of this is over an assistant coach. Has to be more to the story. All we know is that Norwood struck out again.

I thought I read that he wanted a couple of his old NBA guys on the staff as well or something...who knows where this thing went wrong, but the bottom line is it did somewhere. Too bad.

 

[MNfootballfan]

I'm talking about Saul's time before he was hired by Tubby when he was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech.

However, being an advanced scout in the NBA is not as qualified because all he does is scout future opponents. He has done no player development and he doesn't coach during the games.

I'll use google for you:
"Saunders is instrumental in assisting with the preparation for upcoming opponents with extensive scouting reports and statistical analysis"

That is the description of his job with the Wizards. He is an advanced scout for future opponents. That's it. The NBA has much larger budgets than college basketball and they have guys who do nothing but watch film on future opponents and give statistical info to the coaches (player B shoots 25% when moving left, etc.). This isn't me ripping on his job, this is what he does.


Saul Smith was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech. He recruited, he was at practices in a coaching and player develepmont role.

Ryan Saunders position with the Wizards equates to ZERO experience as an assistant basketball coach for college (recruiting and player development).

If Flip wanted to hire Ryan Saunders in a position like special assistant to the head coach where he would break down film on future teams, I am fine with that. If Ryan Saunders is going to be one of our 3 assistant coaches, that's disgusting (just like it was disgusting with Saul Smith).

True, but he did coach a year under Tubby. I also think it is fair to say that he has learned a thing or two from being in the NBA for four years.

 

[bga1]

There is no way that NT wanted to hire Flip but wouldn't because of Ryan. None.

Oh I think you are right about that Galt. He didn't want Saunders...picking Saunders doesn't make Teague's stature rise, it was too easy not Villa 7 ish enough. But Teague didn't have the stones to stand up to the fans and say that he decided against Saunders so he decided to go with the insulting offer route to get rid of him.

 

[lugnard]

And you are showing your stupidity. The first rule of being a head coach is the ability to select your coaching staff. Anything else ends all discussion.

They don't have that right - they can't hire criminals, they have to go through background checks and lastly the operation hiring the HC doesn't have to if they think he will bring in weak or corrupt assistants. Nepotism is a form of corruption.

Galt suggested that wasn't the real reason - maybe - maybe the assistant team Flip suggested was weak and Teague wasn't prepared to risk his career on Flips buddies. If so his son was the perfect poison pill to kill it.

Lastly - if you think college coaces can hire anyone one he wants bar none - you know nothing about how bureaucracies operate. You are free to hire anyone so long as its within the policy guidelines. Step out side that and you are toast. Norwood doesn't want to be toast.

 

[lugnard]

True, but he did coach a year under Tubby. I also think it is fair to say that he has learned a thing or two from being in the NBA for four years.

He was a scout for one of the worst teams in the NBA. Hardly a strong resume.

 

[MNfootballfan]

They don't have that right - they can't hire criminals, they have to go through background checks and lastly the operation hiring the HC doesn't have to if they think he will bring in weak or corrupt assistants. Nepotism is a form of corruption.

Galt suggested that wasn't the real reason - maybe - maybe the assistant team Flip suggested was weak and Teague wasn't prepared to risk his career on Flips buddies. If so his son was the perfect poison pill to kill it.

Lastly - if you think college coaces can hire anyone one he wants bar none - you know nothing about how bureaucracies operate. You are free to hire anyone so long as its within the policy guidelines. Step out side that and you are toast. Norwood doesn't want to be toast.

I don't think you follow sports and or have ever played organized sports. No one is suggesting the Flip is going through the Hennepin County jail looking for assistants. Yes, Flip has to meet University guidelines, but when any head coach is hired they are usually given the right to hire their assistants. I played small DII football and guess what happened when we got a new head coach. All of his assistants were guys that he had worked with at different places in the past. Were they the most qualified guys that applied for the position? I don't know, but were they guys that our head coach knew and trusted? Absolutely. You cannot compare the coaching profession to the business world or other professions.

To me, it doesn't matter if Ryan was working for the Wizards or the Heat. He is coaching in the NBA. By your logic, Eric Spolstra (spelling?) must be the best coach in the NBA - we will disregard the fact he has James, Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allan. If you are an assistant coach in the NBA you are pretty dang good in your profession.

 

[WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?]

Flip playing the Gophers for leverage, too?

Maybe, just like Shaka and Hoiberg, Flip was playing the Gophers all along, as well. Why not apply for a poorly manned Wolves GM position and demonstrate some value for your services in the meantime, to aid salary negotations?

Frankly, i'm just not that concerned with how well known or proven our next coach is - even if this really is as bad as it looks and there is no secret, perfect hire waiting to be revealed. During most of the conference season, it was clearly apparent to me that an average high school gym teacher could have lead a team at least as effectively as Tubby. As long as we hire someone smart enough to put a load of minutes on both of the Hollinses and probably Ellis (if he stays committed) and Buggs, we should be able to maintain 9th place in the Big 10, at a minimum.