If, if , if

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Bob_Loblaw said:
So you don't think we offered Flip?
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Not saying that. Agreeing if it was an offer with the AD having control over the assistants that is not a real offer. It may have been a PR stunt to appease some boosters and a fan base that wanted Flip but that is giving the AD too much credit. If the AD made an offer like that knowing Flip would turn it down that would be pretty savvy on the AD's part. The question is whether or not the AD is that savvy.
 

benlaur said:
I don't like hard and fast rules, "we've been burned with that before, so we're never doing that again". If you have the right person for the job, you give them the opportunity to do it. If not, you do not have the right person for the role.
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You don't like hard and fast rules like "you can hire an QUALIFIED assistant coaches" you'd like? I have no issue with Ryan Saunders. He just has no experience (outside of a scouting gig with the worst franchise in the NBA that he got from his father). If Ryan Saunders had more experience, I'd have no issues with him being part of the staff. However, I believe in the hard and fast rule of not allowing the coach to hire unqualified assistants if said assistants are related. That's an easy one.
 

scools12 said:
Not saying that. Agreeing if it was an offer with the AD having control over the assistants that is not a real offer. It may have been a PR stunt to appease some boosters and a fan base that wanted Flip but that is giving the AD too much credit. If the AD made an offer like that knowing Flip would turn it down that would be pretty savvy on the AD's part. The question is whether or not the AD is that savvy.
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I just doubt that because Flip (at a minimum) is a big Gopher basketball supporter. I wouldn't like it Teague played a game with Flip for a PR move. If it's the Ryan Saunders thing, I think a lot of ADs would say "hire any qualified assistant" and Ryan Saunders doesn't fit that criteria.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't like hard and fast rules like "you can hire an QUALIFIED assistant coaches" you'd like? I have no issue with Ryan Saunders. He just has no experience (outside of a scouting gig with the worst franchise in the NBA that he got from his father). If Ryan Saunders had more experience, I'd have no issues with him being part of the staff. However, I believe in the hard and fast rule of not allowing the coach to hire unqualified assistants if said assistants are related. That's an easy one.
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You're implying you know the specifics about what transpired. I have no idea. Obviously there are certain parameters you place on anyone you hire. I think we generally agree.
 

benlaur said:
You're implying you know the specifics about what transpired. I have no idea. Obviously there are certain parameters you place on anyone you hire. I think we generally agree.
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That's the opposite of what I'm implying. My post that you responded to said "To be honest, I don't know what happened. If it was a "no unqualified assistants, even if they're family", I am 100% behind Teague. If Teague wanted more control than that, he was out of line".

My whole point was that IF it came down to Ryan Saunders at this point in Ryan Saunders career, I fully back Teague.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I just doubt that because Flip (at a minimum) is a big Gopher basketball supporter. I wouldn't like it Teague played a game with Flip for a PR move. If it's the Ryan Saunders thing, I think a lot of ADs would say "hire any qualified assistant" and Ryan Saunders doesn't fit that criteria.
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Bottom line here folks- if we just offered Flip today then we have NOTHING sewed up with anyone. There is no Buzz deal pending. There is no Marshall deal pending. That means we passed on a big time coach with a heavy following here because the AD wanted sway over a minor assistant and we are now headed down deep into the B list. Nice.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't like hard and fast rules like "you can hire an QUALIFIED assistant coaches" you'd like? I have no issue with Ryan Saunders. He just has no experience (outside of a scouting gig with the worst franchise in the NBA that he got from his father). If Ryan Saunders had more experience, I'd have no issues with him being part of the staff. However, I believe in the hard and fast rule of not allowing the coach to hire unqualified assistants if said assistants are related. That's an easy one.
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Congrats and for your efforts you may get yourself........................................... an unqualified HEAD COACH who underwhelms the fan base. Good move? I think not. We'll see. Hope the hire is a homerun or this doesn't proceed well for my favorite team.
 

tinyarch said:
If the basketball program is similar to the football program we might expect to get the "Jerry Kill" of basketball coaches.

The initial reaction to Jerry Kill was one of disdain and disbelief. The jury is still out as to whether he will raise the program out of the ashes.

NT and crew may very well have a similar type basketball coach that they bring in. Will a coach like that be a 3 strike coach for the big 3 recruits? Maybe, but what have been our chances with the big 3 anyway?

What is in the best interest of the Gophers program for the long-term? I really don't know, but I suspect NT and his entourage have an idea. I'll have to trust them, whether they deserve that trust or not.
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The big difference between the two programs is we had TCF Bank Stadium before we hired Kill - we don't have a practice facility now,and money needs to be raised for one.
 

bga1 said:
Bottom line here folks- if we just offered Flip today then we have NOTHING sewed up with anyone. There is no Buzz deal pending. There is no Marshall deal pending. That means we passed on a big time coach with a heavy following here because the AD wanted sway over a minor assistant and we are now headed down deep into the B list. Nice.
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It's because the AD insisted on qualified assistants.

The staff is only minor if you are so drawn to a certain candidate that nothing else matters. It crushed the Gophers that we didn't get Jimmy Williams. Could you imagine if Tubby had another son on staff in lieu of Vince Taylor?

These things aren't minor. You only are allowed a certain number of assistants and continuing to allow that kind of absolute nepotism is being blinded by your support for Flip.
 



bga1 said:
Congrats and for your efforts you may get yourself........................................... an unqualified HEAD COACH who underwhelms the fan base. Good move? I think not. We'll see. Hope the hire is a homerun or this doesn't proceed well for my favorite team.
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What makes these head coaches unqualified? College basketball coaching experience? Years of experience as an assistant in college ball? They might not be YOUR choice, but they aren't unqualified.

So is there any request that Flip could have made that would have been out of line? You are admitting to be cool with him hiring unqualified family members is there anthing that Flip could have requested that would have been out of line?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't like hard and fast rules like "you can hire an QUALIFIED assistant coaches" you'd like? I have no issue with Ryan Saunders. He just has no experience (outside of a scouting gig with the worst franchise in the NBA that he got from his father). If Ryan Saunders had more experience, I'd have no issues with him being part of the staff. However, I believe in the hard and fast rule of not allowing the coach to hire unqualified assistants if said assistants are related. That's an easy one.
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Didn't Ryan also coach a year under Tubby?
 


There are more plot twists on here than in an entire season of Dallas. Did it ever occur to you people that the parties involved are dealing with each other just like happens in any business deal? Hate to be a wet blanket, but the more likely scenario here is that honorable people are attempting to resolve legitimate business and personal interests. Fact is, important negotiations can take time and effort and seldom follow a prescribed timeline.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
What makes these head coaches unqualified? College basketball coaching experience? Years of experience as an assistant in college ball? They might not be YOUR choice, but they aren't unqualified.

So is there any request that Flip could have made that would have been out of line? You are admitting to be cool with him hiring unqualified family members is there anthing that Flip could have requested that would have been out of line?
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How is a four year assistant in the NBA unqualified to be an assistant at the U?
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
What makes these head coaches unqualified? College basketball coaching experience? Years of experience as an assistant in college ball? They might not be YOUR choice, but they aren't unqualified.

So is there any request that Flip could have made that would have been out of line? You are admitting to be cool with him hiring unqualified family members is there anthing that Flip could have requested that would have been out of line?
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Take a common sense pill here Bob. I know it falls in dreamland for you that we don't get Flip. That's fine and it's your choice. I think what you are saying is that this rule of yours- "qualified assistant" sholdl over rule everthing else positive about this. Who cares about the boosters, the fans, the big three, the current recruits or anything else?? We have rules to obey! So tell me the definition of qualified assistant. How does anyone get their first job as an assistant? I know that Ryan has been a graduate assistant here and also an assistant at the pro level- does that qualify? How about head coach- what if a guy has never been a head coach - how can he then be a qualified head coach candidate if he has never done it.
 

howeda7 said:
The Gopher football program is one of the worst BCS jobs and Tim Brewster was a disaster.

The Gopher basketball program is a above average/good BCS job and Tubby Smith was far from a disaster.

Not even close to the same situation.
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Good BCS job? According to whom? Take the Big East, B10, B12, SEC, ACC, and P12 its in the bottom half, easy IMO.
 

This villa7 " service" that matches up assistant coaches and athletic directors sounds too much like a con-freaking-flict of interest for our new norwood and his good buddy ellis. What's the deal: the assistant coach comes to Virginia for a day of getting to know and getting comfortable with someone who writes up a profile of that assistant coach. It sounds almost more like a profile writing session with some online dating service than a coaching service. How do they know ANYTHING about the assistant's coaching abilities based on a cozy little "get to know you..." session?

IF this took down a deal with Flip...it's time for this new norwood to become our EX-norwood.

Of course, our new norwood fancies himself to be a real basketball guy... Nice...really GREAT. This guy might take this program to a place it has never been before...and I'm not so sure it will be a very good place to be...

; 0 )
 

bga1 said:
If the Flip reports are true and it's:

If it's all been done for PR to cover for their homerun hire which is better than Flip- It had better be a knockout hire.

If they got turned down because they wanted control over Flips staff- then we have a real egomaniac piece of work in the AD office.

If Flip turned it down and it was only because he really wanted to be with the Wolves, then a lot of people should be pretty disappointed in Flip for leading us on for months.

If Teague thinks it's a smarter play to hire Enfield or Stephens or some Villa 7 assistant- he's on the hot seat. It's show me time with the fans and boosters.
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We missed our homerun hire. I think Norwood is a pretty ambitious guy. I doubt the UofM is his dream job. If he knew Shaka was not coming... it was absolutely in NT's interest to say so when he fired Tubby.
The idea he drove up Shaka's contract, as a friend, is silly. Shaka and UCLA could do that themselves.
If Norwood intentially did that he is not helping his own career in the eyes of adminstrators. My conclusion then becomes that Norwood was "surprised" that Shaka turned him down. The bigger question is did he offer Shaka before Stevens or did they have a deal and Shaka turned it down because he was second choice to Stevens. Seems highly coincedental that Steven's administrator gets hired by Teague. This was a plan to get Stevens, in my opinion.

Teague thought he'd get one of those two guys and likely thought he had Shaka as his fallback.
So, in a panic, to appease supporters he offers Flip but with strings so he'll say no.

As bga said we know there is no deal in place for Buzz or Marshall or anyone else. Flip might end up being the guy by default because he wants it badly and it could come back to him. But whatever happens it has been handled poorly by Teague. Marshall is the only guy I'm aware of to save face for NT....other than Flip.
 

goldengophers said:
How is a four year assistant in the NBA unqualified to be an assistant at the U?
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I'm talking about Saul's time before he was hired by Tubby when he was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech.

However, being an advanced scout in the NBA is not as qualified because all he does is scout future opponents. He has done no player development and he doesn't coach during the games.

I'll use google for you:
"Saunders is instrumental in assisting with the preparation for upcoming opponents with extensive scouting reports and statistical analysis"

That is the description of his job with the Wizards. He is an advanced scout for future opponents. That's it. The NBA has much larger budgets than college basketball and they have guys who do nothing but watch film on future opponents and give statistical info to the coaches (player B shoots 25% when moving left, etc.). This isn't me ripping on his job, this is what he does.


Saul Smith was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech. He recruited, he was at practices in a coaching and player develepmont role.

Ryan Saunders position with the Wizards equates to ZERO experience as an assistant basketball coach for college (recruiting and player development).

If Flip wanted to hire Ryan Saunders in a position like special assistant to the head coach where he would break down film on future teams, I am fine with that. If Ryan Saunders is going to be one of our 3 assistant coaches, that's disgusting (just like it was disgusting with Saul Smith).
 

imthewalrus said:
This villa7 " service" that matches up assistant coaches and athletic directors sounds too much like a con-freaking-flict of interest for our new norwood and his good buddy ellis. What's the deal: the assistant coach comes to Virginia for a day of getting to know and getting comfortable with someone who writes up a profile of that assistant coach. It sounds almost more like a profile writing session with some online dating service than a coaching service. How do they know ANYTHING about the assistant's coaching abilities based on a cozy little "get to know you..." session?

IF this took down a deal with Flip...it's time for this new norwood to become our EX-norwood.

Of course, our new norwood fancies himself to be a real basketball guy... Nice...really GREAT. This guy might take this program to a place it has never been before...and I'm not so sure it will be a very good place to be...

; 0 )
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You think Teague had a conflict of interest because he insisted upon Flip hiring qualified assistants?

By the way, by no definition of conflict of interests would the Villa 7 qualify.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm talking about Saul's time before he was hired by Tubby when he was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech.

However, being an advanced scout in the NBA is not as qualified because all he does is scout future opponents. He has done no player development and he doesn't coach during the games.

I'll use google for you:
"Saunders is instrumental in assisting with the preparation for upcoming opponents with extensive scouting reports and statistical analysis"

That is the description of his job with the Wizards. He is an advanced scout for future opponents. That's it. The NBA has much larger budgets than college basketball and they have guys who do nothing but watch film on future opponents and give statistical info to the coaches (player B shoots 25% when moving left, etc.). This isn't me ripping on his job, this is what he does.


Saul Smith was an assistant basketball coach at Tennessee Tech. He recruited, he was at practices in a coaching and player develepmont role.

Ryan Saunders position with the Wizards equates to ZERO experience as an assistant basketball coach for college (recruiting and player development).

If Flip wanted to hire Ryan Saunders in a position like special assistant to the head coach where he would break down film on future teams, I am fine with that. If Ryan Saunders is going to be one of our 3 assistant coaches, that's disgusting (just like it was disgusting with Saul Smith).
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How do you get your first job as an assistant?
 

bga1 said:
Take a common sense pill here Bob. I know it falls in dreamland for you that we don't get Flip. That's fine and it's your choice. I think what you are saying is that this rule of yours- "qualified assistant" sholdl over rule everthing else positive about this. Who cares about the boosters, the fans, the big three, the current recruits or anything else?? We have rules to obey! So tell me the definition of qualified assistant. How does anyone get their first job as an assistant? I know that Ryan has been a graduate assistant here and also an assistant at the pro level- does that qualify? How about head coach- what if a guy has never been a head coach - how can he then be a qualified head coach candidate if he has never done it.
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I said in the begining of this thread, that if Teague wanted Flip, I am completely on board with Flip. Having a coach that we want turn down the program is a bad thing, regardless of my novice opinion on the coach. So no, I'm not in dreamland. I was actually unhappy that Flip turned down the job.

You become as assistant by working your way up, by being an assistant at a lesser program before getting a Big 10 gig. Heck, even Tubby had Saul work for 4 seasons at Tennessee Tech as an assistant coach before hiring him.

If Ryan Saunders had 2-3 years in a position that had any player development or recruiting responsibilities, i'd understand the hire.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
You think Teague had a conflict of interest because he insisted upon Flip hiring qualified assistants?

By the way, by no definition of conflict of interests would the Villa 7 qualify.
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I agree with Walrus. If this happened, then there is a decent possibility that Teague has a conflict of interest because he made up a reason to not hire Flip so that he could do it the Villa 7 way. Again, Bob you need a serious dose of common sense. You are trying to go all legal here to craft a way to avoid Flip. I just want to win - if that means I get a homerun coach who has control of his own staff- so be it.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I said in the begining of this thread, that if Teague wanted Flip, I am completely on board with Flip. Having a coach that we want turn down the program is a bad thing, regardless of my novice opinion on the coach. So no, I'm not in dreamland. I was actually unhappy that Flip turned down the job.

You become as assistant by working your way up, by being an assistant at a lesser program before getting a Big 10 gig. Heck, even Tubby had Saul work for 4 seasons at Tennessee Tech as an assistant coach before hiring him.

If Ryan Saunders had 2-3 years in a position that had any player development or recruiting responsibilities, i'd understand the hire.
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Not buying it. You pumped out 101 anti- Flip posts in two days and now you are suddenly concerned about a minor assistant coach issue. Hello.
 


norwood got caught holding the bag

It appears that Norwood probably had some decent conversations with prospects and has learned or is learning a valuable lesson. NT got depantsed and in an effort to salvage his good name we are going to get 31 yr old joe blow who asst coached with UNLV or NM the past 3 yrs.
 

wait!what? said:
It appears that Norwood probably had some decent conversations with prospects and has learned or is learning a valuable lesson. NT got depantsed and in an effort to salvage his good name we are going to get 31 yr old joe blow who asst coached with UNLV or NM the past 3 yrs.
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Then Kaler needs to over-rule him and give Flip the job. That would be an epic disaster at this point.
 

bga1 said:
I agree with Walrus. If this happened, then there is a decent possibility that Teague has a conflict of interest because he made up a reason to not hire Flip so that he could do it the Villa 7 way. Again, Bob you need a serious dose of common sense. You are trying to go all legal here to craft a way to avoid Flip. I just want to win - if that means I get a homerun coach who has control of his own staff- so be it.
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Yep, I agree as well.
 

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