I have been naive, and my heart is broken

[STPGopher]

Yeah it has been said a milion times and it's incorrect. The fact that they never acknowledged that the behavior was wrong said enough for me. They were more outraged by perceived "lack of due process" than they were about the disgusitng actions of their fellow players. Tells me volumes.

Does this count? "In his statement, Wolitarsky said sexual harassment and violence should never be condoned, and that the team recognized the difference between a "legal threshold" and a "moral threshold.""

http://www.mndaily.com/article/2016/12/kaler-wolitarsky-transcript

 

[STPGopher]

The thing that my mind keeps coming to, again and again, is.....where were the seniors and captains
on all of this???? There was a time when your seniors and captains would have "taken care of" this mess.
Its THEIR team, and they would have brought the solution themselves. Maybe, in this day and age,
there is no longer a thing such a senior leadership, and perhaps captaincy is an outmoded idea in an
emasculated age.

Additionally, the whole notion of sexual ethics has apparently gone right out the door. I'm not naive
enough (but close) to think that stuff like this hasn't happened in other times, but I'm stunned that
it seems so acceptable to many today. Nobody in that room had the mental capacity to step back and say, "this is stupid".

I do agree, based on the limited facts I know, that if there were players physically around the area but unaware
of what was going on they should not have been punished, and they've had months to figure that one out.

As somebody who has been involved in competitive athletics for over 40 years, I wouldn't want to be teammates
with the guys on the "train". I certainly wouldn't want them on my team. That's some seriously damaged characters there. That WILL kill the team on the field eventually.

I thought that as well. Not to derail, but also where is the A.D. Leadership? They had already suspended the main players. They could have easily kept them suspended. To my knowledge there was no new evidence. Why such a drastic change of thought?

 

[GophersInIowa]

I tried to post similar feelings earlier (not as elequently as you) and got lit up for it. Yes, I don't understand the moral compass of this team when any would stand up for what happened here. It's not just the younger generation, but their parents need to do some soul searching. Law or ECOO, who cares, everyone should be against what happened here.

For the 50th time, just because someone questions something about this situation, doesn't mean they are okay with what happened or sexual abuse in general. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other with some people? Why can't I say sexual assault is a problem on campuses and at the same time criticize the EOAA for the way they process the investigation?

Just because someone doesn't agree 100% with you doesn't mean they are 100% against you.

 

[Wally]

They all got letters on what sections of the code of conduct they violated. They were all interviewed by the EOAA. I think they knew why if they didn't why the attempted cover up?

Why did she plead the 5th?

 

[rugger14]

Why did she plead the 5th?

Because that is her right.

 

[Jack jones]

Can't wait unti Jan. 21. Then the EOAA will be eliminated. Certainly a more fair, just committee will be created. Thanks to Trump.

 

[citywok]

By all means retreat to the echo chamber of your choosing. Here you need to defend your opinions, and that is all they are.

Opinion: you are like one of the lackeys from Karate Kid

Shall not be defended, deal with it

 

[saintpaulguy]

Can't wait unti Jan. 21. Then the EOAA will be eliminated. Certainly a more fair, just committee will be created. Thanks to Trump.

I'm sure the new Grab 'em by the P*ssy law will be in place soon.

 

[BigTenGuy]

Why did she plead the 5th?

Because Hutton was pursuing the argument that she was guilty of statutory rape for having sex with the 17-year-old recruit who was more than 48 months younger than her. The nicest thing that can be said of Hutton in that regard is that he has a lot of chutzpah.

 

[Genious]

If he is 17 as reported the 48 month difference would only apply if she was in a position of authority over him. That would be a hilarious argument to try to establish.

 

[Maximus]

Does this count? "In his statement, Wolitarsky said sexual harassment and violence should never be condoned, and that the team recognized the difference between a "legal threshold" and a "moral threshold.""

http://www.mndaily.com/article/2016/12/kaler-wolitarsky-transcript

Was he referring to Thursday's statement?

 

[Ewert86PC]

For the 50th time, just because someone questions something about this situation, doesn't mean they are okay with what happened or sexual abuse in general. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other with some people? Why can't I say sexual assault is a problem on campuses and at the same time criticize the EOAA for the way they process the investigation?

Just because someone doesn't agree 100% with you doesn't mean they are 100% against you.

Welcome to the America of Breitbart, Alternet.org, Buzzfeed and The Onion.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[stocker08]

Bill Crosby is an obvious troll. Ban.

 

[maroonfive]

I am not naive because for me going to games is entertainment. I had given up the thoughts of a Big Ten Championship years ago. I am there to enjoy the game, watch the band and cheerleaders, and talk to other season ticket holders that I only see during the football season. We share the random victories and the heartbreaking losses. It is entertainment and an enjoyable way to spend an Autumn afternoon. We have gone long enough without winning that I know it is never going to happen. It should have just happened by chance at least once in the last 49 years. There may be more empty seats around me next year but I will be there enjoying the unexpected that I expect to happen.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Class_of_99]

For me, nothing has changed with the allegations even if they are ultimately proven to be truthful. I am under no illusion that all the people we bring in to play football are true student athletes or even decent human beings. I know that the U does everything they can lower the bar for entry criteria and then does everything they can to keep the players eligible. I know that the coaches here and at pretty much every major program turn a blind eye to potential character flaws and probably don't try digging too deep anyway as star players at the high school level are also covered for by their schools/communities. I know that a lot of players that they recruit are not serious about receiving an education and sometimes hold values 100% at odds with the value and beliefs the school espouses. For me college football, is a pure entertainment and I know every other school is playing the same games to recruit and keep their players eligible. I really don't see the football team as a reflection on the student body any more than I see the Vikings being a reflection on the people of Minnesota.

 

[LesBolstad]

For me, nothing has changed with the allegations even if they are ultimately proven to be truthful. I am under no illusion that all the people we bring in to play football are true student athletes or even decent human beings. I know that the U does everything they can lower the bar for entry criteria and then does everything they can to keep the players eligible. I know that the coaches here and at pretty much every major program turn a blind eye to potential character flaws and probably don't try digging too deep anyway as star players at the high school level are also covered for by their schools/communities. I know that a lot of players that they recruit are not serious about receiving an education and sometimes hold values 100% at odds with the value and beliefs the school espouses. For me college football, is a pure entertainment and I know every other school is playing the same games to recruit and keep their players eligible. I really don't see the football team as a reflection on the student body any more than I see the Vikings being a reflection on the people of Minnesota.

You should stick with professional sports, Dude.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

Nm

 

[bizzle22]

If he is 17 as reported the 48 month difference would only apply if she was in a position of authority over him. That would be a hilarious argument to try to establish.

He did...

http://www.startribune.com/underage...olved-in-alleged-sexual-misconduct/407140326/

"Asked about the recruit during the woman’s testimony, her attorney, Amy Isenor, instructed her client to invoke her Fifth Amendment privilege, the constitutional right to decline to answer potentially incriminating questions.

Judge Mel Dickstein initially allowed questions, but following continued objections by Isenor he retreated to his chambers to review the law. When he returned, Dickstein told Hutton he “understands that Mr. Hutton is trying to demonstrate that 609.344 has been violated.”

That law makes it a crime if “the complainant is at least 16 but less than 18 years of age and the actor is more than 48 months older than the complainant and in a position of authority over the complainant.”

“I don’t know how that’s relevant to the inquiry,” the judge told Hutton.

Dickstein told him he would allow testimony on whether the recruit was present, but not whether there was any sexual contact."

 

[Class_of_99]

You should stick with professional sports, Dude.

I think the recent allegations must have been like revealing the tooth fairy or Santa are actually your parents for you. If you actually attended the U, you probably had some of the players 'in' your classes. I use 'in' meaning enrolled and supposedly a student. I know it does not apply to all the players, but I have first hand experience with the complete double standard applied to players when it comes to academics - and that is supposed to be the whole point of the university system to being with. I also know this is not unique to Minnesota or just football. When players like Trent Richardson, etc give interviews and can barely make out a complete sentence, I am not surprised. When scandals like the UNC fake class scandal breaks, I am not surprised. When the tutor scandal erupted for our BB team, I was not surprised. What other outcome did you expect from bringing in people to the University that otherwise would never have been admitted and then providing an atmosphere where they are placed on a pedestal by teachers and female students?

Sorry, but this is just reality. Our football team is not a true representation of the U. UNC's BB team is not a true representation of their general student body which is academically elite. If you think it is, you are living in a fantasy world.

 

[PMWinSTP]

He did...

http://www.startribune.com/underage...olved-in-alleged-sexual-misconduct/407140326/

"Asked about the recruit during the woman’s testimony, her attorney, Amy Isenor, instructed her client to invoke her Fifth Amendment privilege, the constitutional right to decline to answer potentially incriminating questions.

Judge Mel Dickstein initially allowed questions, but following continued objections by Isenor he retreated to his chambers to review the law. When he returned, Dickstein told Hutton he “understands that Mr. Hutton is trying to demonstrate that 609.344 has been violated.”

That law makes it a crime if “the complainant is at least 16 but less than 18 years of age and the actor is more than 48 months older than the complainant and in a position of authority over the complainant.”

“I don’t know how that’s relevant to the inquiry,” the judge told Hutton.

Dickstein told him he would allow testimony on whether the recruit was present, but not whether there was any sexual contact."

Again, I believe the recess happened right after this and a settlement was quickly in place...the ROs were dismissed. I inferred that to mean he was moving into an area or direction her attorney clearly did not want to go.

 

[bizzle22]

Again, I believe the recess happened right after this and a settlement was quickly in place...the ROs were dismissed. I inferred that to mean he was moving into an area or direction her attorney clearly did not want to go.

It's possible, sure. But I'm just providing facts. I wasn't there so I don't know.

 

[PMWinSTP]

It's possible, sure. But I'm just providing facts. I wasn't there so I don't know.

The fact that the ROs were dismissed and not modified is pretty telling to me.

 

[Class_of_99]

I inferred that to mean he was moving into an area or direction her attorney clearly did not want to go.

I you are a lawyer defending the rape allegations, you have 2 logical defenses.

1.) Prove it was all consensual

2.) Prove that the girl has an incentive to lie about the encounter not being consensual

Here is a hypothetical: what if the new 'electronic information' is a google search from the girl's computer on age of consent prior to going to the police? What if it is her IP pinging the recruit's FB page's 'about' section to determine him age prior to filing the police report? What is the player remembers that the girl came back later that night paranoid about the age of the recruit. If I was defending the players, the story I would be telling is that the girl was scared that the story of the gangbang was going to get out due to the number of people involved. It was more than she originally expected but was completely consensual at the time. Upon learning that one of the people was a minor, she because extremely scared due to the potential legal issue as well as social stigma of a 23 year old girl willingly engaging in a threesome with a minor. To protect herself, she filed a police claim that originally painted her as drunk (thus no consent) and/or the entire incident was non consensual. The video evidence provided by the player proved both of these to be false which lead to the 3rd iteration of the story - that she withdrew consent at some point during the gangbang.

Not that it is the truth of what happened, but I would expect any defense lawyer worth their salt to pursue it. The fact that the girl's lawyer quickly moved to settle AND had the language about agreements not to sue would tell me this was a very worthwhile fishing trip that he will use moving forward.

 

[1385md]

If the whole ordeal was consensual and her only worry was about getting dinged for Stat Rape of the recruit, why would she initiate the police involvement?
I think a more likely scenario is the after she filed the complaint, the players/Hutton tried to use the issue to intimidate her into dropping the complaint.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

 

[bizzle22]

I you are a lawyer defending the rape allegations, you have 2 logical defenses.

1.) Prove it was all consensual

2.) Prove that the girl has an incentive to lie about the encounter not being consensual

Here is a hypothetical: what if the new 'electronic information' is a google search from the girl's computer on age of consent prior to going to the police? What if it is her IP pinging the recruit's FB page's 'about' section to determine him age prior to filing the police report? What is the player remembers that the girl came back later that night paranoid about the age of the recruit. If I was defending the players, the story I would be telling is that the girl was scared that the story of the gangbang was going to get out due to the number of people involved. It was more than she originally expected but was completely consensual at the time. Upon learning that one of the people was a minor, she because extremely scared due to the potential legal issue as well as social stigma of a 23 year old girl willingly engaging in a threesome with a minor. To protect herself, she filed a police claim that originally painted her as drunk (thus no consent) and/or the entire incident was non consensual. The video evidence provided by the player proved both of these to be false which lead to the 3rd iteration of the story - that she withdrew consent at some point during the gangbang.

Not that it is the truth of what happened, but I would expect any defense lawyer worth their salt to pursue it. The fact that the girl's lawyer quickly moved to settle AND had the language about agreements not to sue would tell me this was a very worthwhile fishing trip that he will use moving forward.

Not a practicing attorney, but I have my JD.

I would point out that it is also beneficial to the players to include that clause. Jameis Winston was sued by his accuser despite the university and the state of Florida not pressing charges against him. It is beneficial to the accused to include that clause. Don't assume that the accuser was the one who wanted that included.

And again, there is no incentive to prove that she had sex with the 17 year old or not. It is not illegal unless she was in a position of authority over him, which would be very questionable considering the circumstances. Basically Hutton messed up. One of his clients recorded it and admitted to showing it to others. If he proves that the act was a crime it is a given that filming it and showing it around is a crime.

 

[DoubleAlum]

The Madison incident brought about the same outcry. This is our society folks. When the Madison incident occurred I had friends swear they were done with the U and Gopher Basketball specifically. Yet many rallied by the program to support the remaining players.
( Remember the " Iron Five ") The administration took the same stand as they did in this incident only they fired Jim Dutcher immediately . The only difference was there was no EOAA.
Eventually the players were cleared of any wrong doing . I had a friend studying for the bar during that period and he got a hold of the transcripts and the graphics were as bad as in this case. The friends that said they were done with the U eventually came back in fold. Time can be a great healer.

I hope we can agree that simply because the basketball players were found innocent in court in Madison, does not mean they didn't do something illegal that night. Again, convictions in these types of cases are very difficult for obvious reasons.

 

[Iceland12]

If the whole ordeal was consensual and her only worry was about getting dinged for Stat Rape of the recruit, why would she initiate the police involvement?
I think a more likely scenario is the after she filed the complaint, the players/Hutton tried to use the issue to intimidate her into dropping the complaint.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

She didn't her mom did. Easily possible that much like people on here and internet in general, her mother may have thought that the idea of sex with multiple partners, and these guys in particular was disgusting and that's why she urged her daughter to report it. Hence the delay.

Could also be why, when the police failed to arrest and there were no charges filed and after the unneeded and unwarranted harassment by some of the players, the woman was quoted as saying she didn't want anybody punished and was just glad this was all over with.

The Equal Opportunity Committee, rightly or wrongly, disagreed.

 

[saintpaulguy]

I really don't want to watch sex movies involving people I know socially.

 

[Iceland12]

I think the recent allegations must have been like revealing the tooth fairy or Santa are actually your parents for you. If you actually attended the U, you probably had some of the players 'in' your classes. I use 'in' meaning enrolled and supposedly a student. I know it does not apply to all the players, but I have first hand experience with the complete double standard applied to players when it comes to academics - and that is supposed to be the whole point of the university system to being with. I also know this is not unique to Minnesota or just football. When players like Trent Richardson, etc give interviews and can barely make out a complete sentence, I am not surprised. When scandals like the UNC fake class scandal breaks, I am not surprised. When the tutor scandal erupted for our BB team, I was not surprised. What other outcome did you expect from bringing in people to the University that otherwise would never have been admitted and then providing an atmosphere where they are placed on a pedestal by teachers and female students?

Sorry, but this is just reality. Our football team is not a true representation of the U. UNC's BB team is not a true representation of their general student body which is academically elite. If you think it is, you are living in a fantasy world.

That would be difficult to believe to be sure. Of course, if you think that the level of sexual harassment and "possible assault" is higher for basketball and football players than it is for Frat Boys than you would also be living in a fantasy world.

But you certainly don't see this guys being arrested or their pictures being posted on the front page of the newspapers. Nope, those cases quietly go away..

 

[Class_of_99]

That would be difficult to believe to be sure. Of course, if you think that the level of sexual harassment and "possible assault" is higher for basketball and football players than it is for Frat Boys than you would also be living in a fantasy world

With modern risk management policies implemented over the greek system, frat parties, etc are nothing like they were back in the 80's or 90's. I attended during the time that you needed to bring your own beer - which was taken from you and you were given tickets back to reclaim it on an 'as needed' basis. They encouraged you to hire outside security prior to accepting the alcohol in the first place. How long ago were kegs banned at social fraternities at the U? Further, these 'frat boys' did not get preferential treatment to gain admittance to the U so I would bet they were of higher moral character to begin with due to that fact alone. Whether you want to admit it or not - heavily recruited athletes on scholarship have a completely different standard and experience at the U - your attempt to demonize frat boys based on extensive viewing of Revenge of Nerds does not change that fact.