How much are you on the PJ Bandwagon compared to last year?

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I'll try: if you like a coach personally, you are more likely to give him time to get the program going. if you don't like the coach's personality, you are not going to be as generous. It's a personal opinion, based on one's perception of the coach and the program.

In other words - if you like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be more acceptable. If you don't like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be less acceptable. But, if the coach wins, you're happy - even if you don't like his personality or behavior. Again, it's personal. Put 100 fans in a room, and you will get a multitude of opinions. doesn't mean that one is "right" and one is "wrong." it's subjective. if a Jerry Kill-coached team and a PJ Fleck-coached team have identical records, I am more likely to give higher marks to Kill, based on my subjective feelings about his personality.

I get that idea, I just think it is silly to give into that.

Whatever the job is, it takes whatever it to get it done, whatever it is doesn't change because you like a coach's attitude, how they look, or whatever stuff people pick.

 

[alchemy2u]

I'll try: if you like a coach personally, you are more likely to give him time to get the program going. if you don't like the coach's personality, you are not going to be as generous. It's a personal opinion, based on one's perception of the coach and the program.

In other words - if you like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be more acceptable. If you don't like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be less acceptable. But, if the coach wins, you're happy - even if you don't like his personality or behavior. Again, it's personal. Put 100 fans in a room, and you will get a multitude of opinions. doesn't mean that one is "right" and one is "wrong." it's subjective. if a Jerry Kill-coached team and a PJ Fleck-coached team have identical records, I am more likely to give higher marks to Kill, based on my subjective feelings about his personality.

It’s like a lot of things in life, if you tend to think you like the “person” you are more willing to bend your expectations.
I understand what you are saying, but I think it is way too early to make any concrete judgments on PJ’s program. When you have gaping holes at several positions and on top of that an in your face “life style mentoring” type coach, not all upper class-men are going in immediately. That first year was a reset, we will know much more this year.


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[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

It’s like a lot of things in life, if you tend to think you like the “person” you are more willing to bend your expectations.
I understand what you are saying, but I think it is way too early to make any concrete judgments on PJ’s program. When you have gaping holes at several positions and on top of that an in your face “life style mentoring” type coach, not all upper class-men are going in immediately. That first year was a reset, we will know much more this year.


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Yeah I don't know how to evaluate his program.... but doing it based on how much you like someone you don't know ... kinda bonkers.

But I guess everything is identity politics these days. "Is that like me or what I like? No? Screw that!"

 

[dlw4gophers]

I will grade him more on this years recruiting class than I will on "W's". It's tough to get on something that you never got off of. Always on the Gopher bandwagon and that goes for whoever is the head coach.

 

[Spoofin]

It’s like a lot of things in life, if you tend to think you like the “person” you are more willing to bend your expectations.
I understand what you are saying, but<b> I think it is way too early to make any concrete judgments on PJ’s program. </b>When you have gaping holes at several positions and on top of that an in your face “life style mentoring” type coach, not all upper class-men are going in immediately. That first year was a reset, <b>we will know much more this year. </b>


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The bolded points are true, but obvious. Writing PJ off after last year would be as ridiculous as guaranteeing greatness from him after last year. Personally, I think he underachieved last year and everything Herd said was spot on. I still think PJ will be successful here.


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[alchemy2u]

The bolded points are true, but obvious. Writing PJ off after last year would be as ridiculous as guaranteeing greatness from him after last year. Personally, I think he underachieved last year and everything Herd said was spot on. I still think PJ will be successful here.


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Yeah, I mostly responded to make a NDSU jab, but it is too early on PJ.


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[Herd]

Don’t you typically watch JV football? Hard to make a lot of judgements on the first year with so many holes in the roster. TCF stadium wasn’t build in a day...

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I watch a lot of college football. I see a lot of things that I don’t see in MN:
* Teams with Identities that do their thing
* Coaches that don’t act as though they are entitled, that are humble
* Teams that win, or at least don’t call it Year zero and mail it in

PJ has a lot of learning to do. If you think last year was a positive stepping stone, so be it. I did not

 

[JZsportswhiz]

Still all in on him. Last year I was way into the culture change and what the guys do as a program off the field. I love what I see in that area, I think it is super important for the community and school as a whole considering the cloud that his been over the athletics program in recent years. That being said, I'm now focused with on the field stuff. I am expecting improvements this year but I still don't expect a large turnaround until year 4. I'm just hoping he sticks around long after that

 

[alchemy2u]

I watch a lot of college football. I see a lot of things that I don’t see in MN:
* Teams with Identities that do their thing
* Coaches that don’t act as though they are entitled, that are humble
* Teams that win, or at least don’t call it Year zero and mail it in

PJ has a lot of learning to do. If you think last year was a positive stepping stone, so be it. I did not

Now you are starting to let your personal opinions cloud your judgement.
-PJ doesn’t do his own thing? Seems kinda unique to most people.
-humble coaches? Yea, Sabin, Holtz, Urban, just about every SEC coach are all real humble guys and don’t think they walk on water...
-do you really think that PJ mailed in his first (zero) year?
You are just upset because players would rather walk onto the U, than play JV up in Fargo.
Hey, you are what you are: a good program for your level of play. You make the most out of the late bloomers or players that are over looked by the big D1 schools, but you could never survive a B1G schedule. And just because you have multiple JV championships doesn’t mean you can talk smack about the neighboring D1 school that you are jealous about.


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[Zeppelin Gopher]

I don't like the options for this poll. I was 100% confident after the hire. Am still fairly confident in PJ, but have lost a little faith.

Positives:
*Recruiting (this is A #1, way above anything else)
*Increased attention around the program (nationally and locally)
*Most players seem to be buying in to his jargon and shtick
*We beat the **** out of Nebraska

Negatives:
*Uninspiring game plans and management last season
*Played an obviously injured player against Purdue, helping directly lead to a loss
*Weird Belichickian tendancies- overly secretive about injuries, closed practices etc
*New uniforms (hideous)
*Seeming to place his brand higher in importance than the actual university

 

[caliGopher]

It's hard to have much an offensive gameplan with atrocious QB play, limited WR play and a meh OL.

Creativity is probably the number one thing that is hampered by having a bad offense.

In simple terms:
a flea-flicker works because the safeties jump because they're afraid of the run;
a reverse works because the defense overcommits on the sweep because we've been able to run on the outside;
playaction works because you're afraid of the run;
screen passes work because the DL has to sell out because the QB is picking us apart.

I know, that's oversimplified version. But if you can't run well, can't complete easy passes and generally have a bad offense, you can't really afford to be super creative (especially when you factor in the need to keep the defense off the field).

It's similar to the criticism of Limegrover. Until we see better QB play, we will see a lot of RUTM, RUTM, pass.

So, if I understand correctly it was ok to just throw in the towel on the season?

A coach has three options:

A) recognize the issues and adapt his approach to the talent (or lack thereof) on the roster to maximize what is there.

B) install the future offense and defense and use the year as a learning curve, building to something that will be better.

C) Throw in the towel.

I’ve seen all three in my lifetime at various programs and various coaches, although almost never C).

B) is what I expected last year going into the season. Looking for some sign of hope that he has a system that won’t work in year one because of issues with depth at key positions, but we’d see some flashes of things to come.

I did not see a coach that tried or cared about results on the field last year.

Offensively a team made little to no effort on offense to even TRY to exploit what defenses were showing. And completely folded in the last two games of the season. It’s one thing to keep losing to Wisconsin. It’s another to have their players call out the coaching staff for the fact they (Gophers) didn’t even try.

Defensively I saw a coaching staff and philosophy that doesn’t give me excitement for the future. Statistically we were better than I expected. In game coaching and philosophy showed a defensive approach that was inline with the reason Arkansas’ defense got worse each year. Exasperated by the beyond pedestrian offensive coaching effort.

But we have one data point, and that does not a trend make. I’m expecting to see more this year, but if the coach is to be believed,
We may be in for year two of option C)




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[caliGopher]

I'll try: if you like a coach personally, you are more likely to give him time to get the program going. if you don't like the coach's personality, you are not going to be as generous. It's a personal opinion, based on one's perception of the coach and the program.

In other words - if you like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be more acceptable. If you don't like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be less acceptable. But, if the coach wins, you're happy - even if you don't like his personality or behavior. Again, it's personal. Put 100 fans in a room, and you will get a multitude of opinions. doesn't mean that one is "right" and one is "wrong." it's subjective. if a Jerry Kill-coached team and a PJ Fleck-coached team have identical records, I am more likely to give higher marks to Kill, based on my subjective feelings about his personality.

A case study from recent B1G history? Brett Bielema. Whisky fans, in general didn’t like him. He had some pretty good success, but they were happy he left. Winning doesn’t cure everything with a coaches personality. It can and does become winning “enough”.

Ask Lloyd Carr (who I think is who most closely resembles Flecks have better talent and you’ll win approach), Bo Pelini, Frank Solich, John Cooper, plus many others from other conferences.


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[Dano564]

I, like a couple others have mentioned, were 100% with PJ last year.
But were a little disappointed. He did what I expected record-wise, but the offensive play calling was uninspiring.

Now, I'd like to believe that was because he was implementing his program and teaching lessons. So he kept things simple as a "Well, if the team can't handle more, we'll just run two plays we can execute correctly".
Just like he said "If we need to play without a QB, we will". (or something to that effect).
So I'm hopeful this year we'll see more of what is a true PJ offense.

I like most of everything else he brings.
So I'm holding out hope that it will be different regarding game day coaching and offense

Although, I also believed in 2016, that much of what Trump said was a shtick. Unfortunately I was wrong on that one.

 

[GophersInIowa]

B) is what I expected last year going into the season. Looking for some sign of hope that he has a system that won’t work in year one because of issues with depth at key positions, but we’d see some flashes of things to come.

I thought they threw down field or at least tried more than previously. I think that is one change we will continue to see going forward.

Offensively a team made little to no effort on offense to even TRY to exploit what defenses were showing. And completely folded in the last two games of the season. It’s one thing to keep losing to Wisconsin. It’s another to have their players call out the coaching staff for the fact they (Gophers) didn’t even try.

Did this happen? I'm not saying it didn't, I just don't remember hearing about it.

 

[caliGopher]

I thought they threw down field or at least tried more than previously. I think that is one change we will continue to see going forward.



Did this happen? I'm not saying it didn't, I just don't remember hearing about it.

In one of the post game articles, one of the WI defenders commented about being surprised they (gophers) didn't at least try to throw the ball more (we attempted 9 passes) given the score and the lack of movement of the offense. If I could remember where, I'd link it.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

In one of the post game articles, one of the WI defenders commented about being surprised they (gophers) didn't at least try to throw the ball more (we attempted 9 passes) given the score and the lack of movement of the offense. If I could remember where, I'd link it.

I mean with Wisc's defense and our offense ..... not sure anything would work.

 

[caliGopher]

I mean with Wisc's defense and our offense ..... not sure anything would work.

I'm not going to disagree with that, but shouldn't we have at least tried?

In 1993, a 4-7 Jim Wacker coached team beat the 15th Ranked Wisconsin Badgers - the teams only defeat that year -- that went on to beat 24 Michigan and 25 Michigan State, and tie the #3 Ohio State Buckeyes. Wisconsin finished the season with a Rose Bowl win against 14 UCLA and the #6 AP ranking in the country.

The Gophers that year beat:

Indiana State
1-10 Purdue
2-9 Northwestern
and 10-1-1 Wisconsin.

San Diego State blew out the Gophers that year. That Gopher team was awful.

Minnesotas offense ranked 29th in the nation that year, number 12 in passing, but most of the yardage came after we'd been put away.
Wisconsin's offense ranked 12th in the country that year, Number 8 in rushing

Minnesota had the 81 ranked defense
Wisconsin had the 38th ranked defense

We gave up 605 yards. Gained 385. We had no business winning. But we came out and tried. And won. You can't be successful.

You can't win. if you don't try. What's the message you send when you give up before the kick-off as a coaching staff?

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I'm not going to disagree with that, but shouldn't we have at least tried?

In 1993, a 4-7 Jim Wacker coached team beat the 15th Ranked Wisconsin Badgers - the teams only defeat that year -- that went on to beat 24 Michigan and 25 Michigan State, and tie the #3 Ohio State Buckeyes. Wisconsin finished the season with a Rose Bowl win against 14 UCLA and the #6 AP ranking in the country.

The Gophers that year beat:

Indiana State
1-10 Purdue
2-9 Northwestern
and 10-1-1 Wisconsin.

San Diego State blew out the Gophers that year. That Gopher team was awful.

Minnesotas offense ranked 29th in the nation that year, number 12 in passing, but most of the yardage came after we'd been put away.
Wisconsin's offense ranked 12th in the country that year, Number 8 in rushing

Minnesota had the 81 ranked defense
Wisconsin had the 38th ranked defense

We gave up 605 yards. Gained 385. We had no business winning. But we came out and tried. And won. You can't be successful.

You can't win. if you don't try. What's the message you send when you give up before the kick-off as a coaching staff?

I was very frustrated watching the northwestern and Wisconsin games last year. I've seen plenty of overmatched football teams playing their hearts out trying to beat a team that they were vastly overmatched against and just not be able to compete on skill level. That isn't what I saw in those games. I saw a team that knew it wasn't good enough to compete, and seemed perfectly fine accepting that and going through the motions. Effort is a choice.

 

[Herd]

I will grade him more on this years recruiting class than I will on "W's". It's tough to get on something that you never got off of. Always on the Gopher bandwagon and that goes for whoever is the head coach.

You see, that’s where you and i disagree by a lot. I don’t care if he talks real pretty, pats hiself on the back, is great at catching punts, or uses lots of superlatives and get 5 star recruits. I just care if he wins. He’s got my support if he’s about winning, and less about talking.

 

[EG#9]

I went with 100% compared to last year, but I can't be 100% on board with any coach until they actually win. Following the Gophers has been brutal, I can't be "all in" anymore on a program that has been pathetic on the field for my entire lifetime. I am beyond sick of people claiming success in a year where the Gophers don't beat anyone of significance and go to some minor bowl. I think PJ has the best chance to elevate this program since I was old enough to start following closely (Wacker years), and I am not at all concerned about the record/performance in year 1 as it didn't surprise me at all given the state of the roster. I saw some reason for optimism on the defensive side of the ball given the absolute patchwork secondary and the amount of time they had to spend on the field due to a terrible offense. On the offensive side, things were brutal with little talent and injuries to the OL, WR, and TE corps.

My biggest concern to date is that PJ's improved recruiting hasn't translated to the QB position. He decided he didn't want Armstrong, then lost out on trying to flip a couple other 2018 QB's, before signing a JUCO who chose the Gophers over Kansas and a very clear backup position at Ole Miss. Now he's missed on Duggan in the 2019 class. If we go in to the 2019 Spring game without someone to be excited about at QB be it one of the current QB's surprising during the 2018 season or PJ finding another highly coveted QB in the 2019 class, it's going to be tough to remain optimistic for his tenure. I feel like his name value on the recruiting trail has an expiration date and he'll need to have the team in position to win sooner rather than later to continue to get kids like Nubin in this class or Teague in the previous class to "row the boat".

 

[PMWinSTP]

I went with 100% compared to last year, but I can't be 100% on board with any coach until they actually win. Following the Gophers has been brutal, I can't be "all in" anymore on a program that has been pathetic on the field for my entire lifetime. I am beyond sick of people claiming success in a year where the Gophers don't beat anyone of significance and go to some minor bowl. I think PJ has the best chance to elevate this program since I was old enough to start following closely (Wacker years), and I am not at all concerned about the record/performance in year 1 as it didn't surprise me at all given the state of the roster. I saw some reason for optimism on the defensive side of the ball given the absolute patchwork secondary and the amount of time they had to spend on the field due to a terrible offense. On the offensive side, things were brutal with little talent and injuries to the OL, WR, and TE corps.

My biggest concern to date is that PJ's improved recruiting hasn't translated to the QB position. He decided he didn't want Armstrong, then lost out on trying to flip a couple other 2018 QB's, before signing a JUCO who chose the Gophers over Kansas and a very clear backup position at Ole Miss. Now he's missed on Duggan in the 2019 class. If we go in to the 2019 Spring game without someone to be excited about at QB be it one of the current QB's surprising during the 2018 season or PJ finding another highly coveted QB in the 2019 class, it's going to be tough to remain optimistic for his tenure. I feel like his name value on the recruiting trail has an expiration date and he'll need to have the team in position to win sooner rather than later to continue to get kids like Nubin in this class or Teague in the previous class to "row the boat".

Absolutely. His high profile from that 13-win season at WMU and his cult of personality got this current class. Been saying for six months that having another lackluster 5-win season like 2017 will have an affect his recruiting. WI, IA, and IL have started strong for 2019. I expect NEB to recruit at the same level as 2018 class...getting 2019 class ranked 7th in B1G will be a challenge.

 

[hungan1]

I am just as frustrated as the next Gopher fan. But, I learned to temper my disappointment and let the process take care of itself. My blood pressure is a lot better.

PJ Fleck like any other former Gophers coaches deserve time to rebuild the program. Turning around Gopher Football is a daunting task after more than 50 years since its glory days. It will take time.

I like the recruiting so far. Yeah, not getting Max Duggan was deflating I would admit. But, it is not the end of the 2019 Recruiting Season.

The MAC is not the B1G10. The competition & recruiting is tougher.

If it was that easy, why aren't Fitz and Ferentz winning the B1G West on a regular basis.

Now Fleck not only have Chryst, Fitz, and Ferentz, he has Brohm and Frost to worry about. Everyone else has improved except for maybe Illinois. Minnesota is in danger of giving up its 5th place average standing in the B1G West to Purdue unless we can overcome that with recruiting.

Brennan Armstrong last year appeared to have been caught in a lie (is underage drinking involved?) which if true I don't blame a coach for not taking someone in that leadership position for the team.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Brennan Armstrong last year appeared to have been caught in a lie (is underage drinking involved?) which if true I don't blame a coach for not taking someone in that leadership position for the team.

So much melancholy after losing out on Duggan. We did pick up a nice commit recently.

That Armstrong thing was a weird episode. Have to believe there was more there than a simple white lie about not being at a party where some were drinking. Sure, there could be deeper character issues at play but personally unless there was a pattern of Manziel-like behavior issues I’d have let the high school coach discipline him and move forward.

Water under the bridge. PJ certainly has a vision and it’s his way or the highway. One man, one vision, one religion. Will it work out? I say yes. From the uber-80s (andnonOscar-winning) film “Iron Eagle”



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[Desertbobcat]

Armstrong sounds like a perfect fit for Flect culture. He could mold him spiritualyour, educationally and athletically being the master teacher he says he is. That's why we pay him millions.

 

[hungan1]

Something must have gone terribly wrong with Brennan Armstrong's recruiting for it to turn sour the way that it did.

You'd think most mistakes kids make in HS are teachable moments and are correctable. This may be opportunity missed by both sides.