How much are you on the PJ Bandwagon compared to last year?

[alchemy2u]

What bandwagon? All I need to say is, Maryland 2017, and it should send shivers down the spine.
Panama Jack needs to win before there's a bandwagon. At present their is just a cult leader with a few devoted followers dancing around the goal post chanting "Hari PJ."
Win and then people can talk about adding members to the cult of personality. [emoji56]

So are you saying no support for a new coach? Kinda harsh.


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[MennoSota]

So are you saying no support for a new coach? Kinda harsh.


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The question is about the bandwagon. Support from the bandwagon comes when PJ wins. Until then the PJ cult will have to "drum" up the support.
"Hari hari, PJ PJ, Hari hari..."

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

I'm usually pretty on board with giving a coach a solid 4-5 years to prove his system, but Fleck's horrible "marketing" have got me wanting real results sooner. It's one thing to listen to his rhetoric when the team is racking up victories, quite another to endure them and losses on the field.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I have to say, usually the comments and poll results out here correlate pretty closely. Not so much with this one.

Looks like sentiment is around 50% strongly confident, 40% in wait and see more, and 10 percent have already written him off. The honeymoon is still on, but perhaps PJ has left the towel on the floor a few times.

I suspect if people had to put money where their mouth is and bet real money on a concrete sign of program success - $5,000 for the sake of argument - on the odds of PJ succeeding (again, this can be defined in different ways but let’s say it means winning the West within the next 4 years) they’d be...somewhat less than 100% confident. I don’t personally know how anyone can be 100% certain of just about anything and certainly the track record of coaches is spotty at just about every program.

FtF should run this every offseason to help gauge sentiment over the next 4-6 years so we can plot the data.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I'm usually pretty on board with giving a coach a solid 4-5 years to prove his system, but Fleck's horrible "marketing" have got me wanting real results sooner. It's one thing to listen to his rhetoric when the team is racking up victories, quite another to endure them and losses on the field.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Need one more option:

Last year I was highly confident and this year I am the same. I don't really think you can ever be 100% confident in any new coach until they have some time to prove what they can do.

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

Was never rooting against PJ but hated the coaching change, or at least the way it happened. I think PJ will get this program to heights that will exceed most reasonable fans expectations. Extremely happy that Claeys has been able to move on and his hire at WSU really puts all that happened to bed for me. That being said, I will probably not renew my season tickets which I have had for 12 years.

 

[HolyCross66]

I am going to give him a few years to coach up his own recruits. I will be honest, I am not a big fan of someone using their own branding on the helmet.
This may sound myopic but until we beat Wisconsin, I won't be all in on a coach. I work with a lot of Badger fans and I am sick of losing and last year was embarrassing.

 

[Dano564]

Need one more option:

Last year I was highly confident and this year I am the same. I don't really think you can ever be 100% confident in any new coach until they have some time to prove what they can do.

There were a lot more options I could have put, but I had to keep it to 9 or 10 so I went with these.

I'm like 100% to 80%, but I chose 100% and now closer to 50%.

 

[Dano564]

Interesting.

Right now 70% feel the same in their opinions as last year.
12% are an increase in confidence.
15% have lost some level of confidence. (about half still believing and the other half not so much).

0 have gone to zero to 100% which makes sense considering last years record.
One votes has gone from 100% to zero. I take that one with a grain of salt.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

Was it too complicated for you?

 

[Herd]

The guy has a lot to prove. He didn’t show much last year on the field, and really underachieved. Recruiting hype doesn’t mean much if you struggle to game plan and lead on Saturday’s in the fall. Offensive identity has yet to be defined heading into year2, and that’s a real problem. Got to hang your hat on something.

 

[alchemy2u]

The guy has a lot to prove. He didn’t show much last year on the field, and really underachieved. Recruiting hype doesn’t mean much if you struggle to game plan and lead on Saturday’s in the fall. Offensive identity has yet to be defined heading into year2, and that’s a real problem. Got to hang your hat on something.

Don’t you typically watch JV football? Hard to make a lot of judgements on the first year with so many holes in the roster. TCF stadium wasn’t build in a day...l


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[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Was it too complicated for you?

I don't get how a coach's attitude works into giving a guy time or not.

 

[Spoofin]

Don’t you typically watch JV football? Hard to make a lot of judgements on the first year with so many holes in the roster. TCF stadium wasn’t build in a day...l

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Didn't show much in'17.
Was out coached in '17.
Poor offense with no identity in '17.
Has a lot to prove in '18.

What part did Herd get wrong?




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[Bob_Loblaw]

I don't get how a coach's attitude works into giving a guy time or not.

One time, I dated an attractive woman for 8 months and she openly believed the world was flat. If she was less attractive, that would have been a deal breaker.

It's like that, but in football "attractive woman" = wins.

So he would be more willing to put up with personality traits he finds annoying if the coach was winning. Pretty simple.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

One time, I dated an attractive woman for 8 months and she openly believed the world was flat. If she was less attractive, that would have been a deal breaker.

It's like that, but in football "attractive woman" = wins.

So he would be more willing to put up with personality traits he finds annoying if the coach was winning. Pretty simple.

I mean a fatal flaw like thinking the world is flat is one thing.

I just don't see a PJ thing that is akin to that .... most complaints about his PR stuff are just stylistic nonsense disagreements.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Just to make sure, I went back and checked the box scores and sure enough, just like I thought I remembered, we actually had Demry fn Croft playing at QB for most of the year, and when he wasn’t, it was someone named Rhoda.

Yes, I’m still 100% fully in support of the Fleckster.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I don't get how a coach's attitude works into giving a guy time or not.

I think he’s saying he hated the marketing by Fleck but it absolutely worked on him? Hence, that’s why he hates it?

 

[alchemy2u]

Didn't show much in'17.
Was out coached in '17.
Poor offense with no identity in '17.
Has a lot to prove in '18.

What part did Herd get wrong?


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Players, players, players........ personal vendettas still don’t change the fact that it was the first year of a new coach, systems, etc... still too early to know.


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[alchemy2u]

Just to make sure, I went back and checked the box scores and sure enough, just like I thought I remembered, we actually had Demry fn Croft playing at QB for most of the year, and when he wasn’t, it was someone named Rhoda.

Yes, I’m still 100% fully in support of the Fleckster.

Correct! I am with you.


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[GophersInIowa]

The guy has a lot to prove. He didn’t show much last year on the field, and really underachieved. Recruiting hype doesn’t mean much if you struggle to game plan and lead on Saturday’s in the fall. Offensive identity has yet to be defined heading into year2, and that’s a real problem. Got to hang your hat on something.

It's hard to have any kind of offensive identity when QB play is that bad.

 

[GFBfan]

Players, players, players........ personal vendettas still don’t change the fact that it was the first year of a new coach, systems, etc... still too early to know.


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RUTM, RUTM, RUTM, try to hit TJ on a crossing pattern, RUTM, RUTM repeat....When your whole offensive game plan consists of these two plays, it's not the players that are the problem.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

RUTM, RUTM, RUTM, try to hit TJ on a crossing pattern, RUTM, RUTM repeat....When your whole offensive game plan consists of these two plays, it's not the players that are the problem.

Yeah, it was a mess.

 

[PMWinSTP]

RUTM, RUTM, RUTM, try to hit TJ on a crossing pattern, RUTM, RUTM repeat....When your whole offensive game plan consists of these two plays, it's not the players that are the problem.

As discussed in the season, play selection and lack of adjustments was glaring at times. The MD game was a prime example. The area 5-15 yards off the line was wide open all game. 8-9 crowding the line. It was frustrating to plainly see that and not see any attempt to exploit it. Any success doing it would have gotten them to back off the line.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

I don't get how a coach's attitude works into giving a guy time or not.

It's not attitude, it's public image. I personally find Fleck's antics to be embarrassing and stupid but could accept them if it leads to on field success, to endure the cringe worthy acronyms and gimmicky sayings while also piling up losses on the field is not (again my opinion) good for the program or school.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Yeah, it was a mess.

It's hard to have much an offensive gameplan with atrocious QB play, limited WR play and a meh OL.

Creativity is probably the number one thing that is hampered by having a bad offense.

In simple terms:
a flea-flicker works because the safeties jump because they're afraid of the run;
a reverse works because the defense overcommits on the sweep because we've been able to run on the outside;
playaction works because you're afraid of the run;
screen passes work because the DL has to sell out because the QB is picking us apart.

I know, that's oversimplified version. But if you can't run well, can't complete easy passes and generally have a bad offense, you can't really afford to be super creative (especially when you factor in the need to keep the defense off the field).

It's similar to the criticism of Limegrover. Until we see better QB play, we will see a lot of RUTM, RUTM, pass.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

It's not attitude, it's public image. I personally find Fleck's antics to be embarrassing and stupid but could accept them if it leads to on field success, to endure the cringe worthy acronyms and gimmicky sayings while also piling up losses on the field is not (again my opinion) good for the program or school.

Maybe I'm just not getting it but I'm not at all sure what the embarrassing thing is nor how it relates to how long you think it takes someone to build a program or get things going.

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

RUTM, RUTM, RUTM, try to hit TJ on a crossing pattern, RUTM, RUTM repeat....When your whole offensive game plan consists of these two plays, it's not the players that are the problem.

PJ couldn't get that clock moving fast enough. I have always appreciated a good game plan of ....Run, Run, Pass, Punt

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Maybe I'm just not getting it but I'm not at all sure what the embarrassing thing is nor how it relates to how long you think it takes someone to build a program or get things going.

I'll try: if you like a coach personally, you are more likely to give him time to get the program going. if you don't like the coach's personality, you are not going to be as generous. It's a personal opinion, based on one's perception of the coach and the program.

In other words - if you like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be more acceptable. If you don't like the coach's personality, a 5-7 record may be less acceptable. But, if the coach wins, you're happy - even if you don't like his personality or behavior. Again, it's personal. Put 100 fans in a room, and you will get a multitude of opinions. doesn't mean that one is "right" and one is "wrong." it's subjective. if a Jerry Kill-coached team and a PJ Fleck-coached team have identical records, I am more likely to give higher marks to Kill, based on my subjective feelings about his personality.