House passes bill allowing beer sales at TCF; Dayton likely to sign

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RodentRampage said:
I said nothing of the sort. The state legislature does not have absolute authority to legislate, they are limited by the Constitution. If the legislature passed a law saying that all books had to be approved by the government, that would be an example of the legislature overstepping its authority. The Minnesota Constitution gives autonomy to the University of Minnesota, the legislature is overstepping its authority in attempting to micromanage where the U allows alcohol. If the U challenged this in court, the U would likely win, but the legislature would likely retaliate. If the regents decide to have a beer garden, then the point is moot, of course. But it doesn't actually mean the legislature had the authority to micromanage the U's alcohol policy.
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The next thing people will start saying is that the experts at the GopherHole don't have the authority to micromanage sports at the University of Minnesota. That would be terrible! And we are so good at it!:rolleyes:
 

RodentRampage said:
I said nothing of the sort. The state legislature does not have absolute authority to legislate, they are limited by the Constitution. If the legislature passed a law saying that all books had to be approved by the government, that would be an example of the legislature overstepping its authority. The Minnesota Constitution gives autonomy to the University of Minnesota, the legislature is overstepping its authority in attempting to micromanage where the U allows alcohol. If the U challenged this in court, the U would likely win, but the legislature would likely retaliate. If the regents decide to have a beer garden, then the point is moot, of course. But it doesn't actually mean the legislature had the authority to micromanage the U's alcohol policy.
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I think your way off here. The Legislature passes laws, the Governor sees if they fit in their views and it's the court's job to decide if it's Constitutional. The U doesn't operate in a vacuum, and is not and will never be totally Autonomous. Plus, it is totally in the Legislature's purview to look out for the taxpayers of Minnesota. I also think the "U" would lose if they took this to court. I have zero problem with this, if you do, don't visit the Beer Garden, or whatever it turns out as. Vox Populi, not "micromanagement".
 

re3886 said:
I think your way off here. The Legislature passes laws, the Governor sees if they fit in their views and it's the court's job to decide if it's Constitutional. The U doesn't operate in a vacuum, and is not and will never be totally Autonomous. Plus, it is totally in the Legislature's purview to look out for the taxpayers of Minnesota. I also think the "U" would lose if they took this to court. I have zero problem with this, if you do, don't visit the Beer Garden, or whatever it turns out as. Vox Populi, not "micromanagement".
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You are claiming that the legislature cannot overstep its authority. Yet you admit that the Supreme Court does rule on whether the legislature has overstepped its authority. Just because the U hasn't challenged this in court doesn't mean that the legislature hasn't overstepped its authority, it has either overstepped it or it hasn't. The Vox Populi can amend the State Constitution at any time they want if they want the Constitution changed. If the Regents decide to have a beer garden, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the legislature micromanaging the U in violation of the state constitution. This isn't about beer, it's about the State Constitution.

Here's the Minnesota House on the University of Minnesota's Constitutional autonomy:


http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/ss/clssumca.htm

The University of Minnesota has a special legal status, known as constitutional autonomy, that is of continuing interest to the legislature. Most frequently, members ask whether a proposed bill provision affecting the university would violate constitutional autonomy. At times, the validity of an existing law on the university is questioned. This short subject is an introduction to constitutional autonomy. It describes the relevant territorial act and constitutional provision and lays out four principles established by Minnesota cases on the university’s autonomy.

Definition

Constitutional autonomy is a legal principle that makes a state university a separate department of government, not merely an agency of the executive or legislative branch. A university with this status is subject to judicial review and to the legislature’s police and appropriations power. However, its governing board has a significant degree of independent control over many university functions.

Statute and Constitution

The University of Minnesota was incorporated and its powers were set out in an 1851 act of the Territorial Assembly. (Territorial Laws 1851, ch. 28.) The act established a Board of Regents, provided for the legislature to elect the board, and gave the board general authority to govern the university. Specific powers granted to the board in the act include: the ability to appoint faculty, set faculty salaries (with legislative approval), grant degrees, determine tuition, and erect buildings.

When Minnesota became a state in 1858, the constitution carried into statehood the university’s legal status. This recognition of the university’s original charter is known as constitutional autonomy. (“All the rights, immunities, franchises and endowments heretofore granted or conferred upon the University of Minnesota are perpetuated unto the university.” Minn. Const., art. XIII, § 3).

Essential Case Law Principles

The Minnesota Supreme Court first decided a case on the constitutional status of the university in 1908. A handful of cases decided since then have resulted in the following four rules to use in evaluating legislation that affects the university.

· The Board of Regents alone is empowered to manage the university, except as qualified below. Case law prohibits either the legislative or executive branch from participating in internal management of the university. Cases especially reject broad legislative or executive branch control over university finances. State ex rel. University of Minnesota v. Chase, 175 Minn. 259, 220 N.W. 951 (1928).

· Judicial relief is available if the regents abuse the management powers granted by the state constitution. The Minnesota Supreme Court has ruled that the judicial branch is also prohibited from interfering with internal university management. However, parties such as students or taxpayers may obtain relief from the courts if the university fails to follow its own rules or violates a valid law in such matters as procedures for student expulsion. Gleason v. University of Minnesota, 104 Minn. 359, 116 N.W. 650 (1908).

· The legislature may place conditions on university appropriations, if the conditions do not violate university autonomy. A condition is more likely to be found valid if it applies equally to all public agencies and the court finds that it (1) promotes the general welfare, and (2) makes very limited intrusions on the regents’ management duties. The Minnesota Supreme Court has said it is willing to review any conditional appropriation to determine whether these tests are met. Regents of University of Minnesota v. Lord, 257 N.W.2d 796 (Minn. 1977).

· The university is subject to the general lawmaking power, to the extent that it does not impede the regents’ ability to manage the university. The Minnesota Supreme Court has indicated some factors it considers in upholding application of regulatory laws to the university: (1) the law promotes the general welfare, (2) it applies to all state and local government agencies, and (3) it does not affect internal management of the university. Star Tribune v. University of Minnesota Board of Regents, 683 N.W.2d 274 (Minn. 2004).
 

RodentRampage said:
It's up the Regents. The legislature is still overstepping its authority, but if the Regents decide to allow alcohol in the stadium it is their call. The key provision in the bill is "convenient". It doesn't declare how convenient it has to be.
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Beer sales immediately adjacent to the restrooms is "convenient".
 

re3886 said:
I think your way off here. The Legislature passes laws, the Governor sees if they fit in their views and it's the court's job to decide if it's Constitutional. The U doesn't operate in a vacuum, and is not and will never be totally Autonomous. Plus, it is totally in the Legislature's purview to look out for the taxpayers of Minnesota. I also think the "U" would lose if they took this to court. I have zero problem with this, if you do, don't visit the Beer Garden, or whatever it turns out as. Vox Populi, not "micromanagement".
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It is an old adage that people (and organizations) have as much authority as they can get away with. The Minnesota legislature appoints every member of the Board of Regents and contributes a huge amount of taxpayer funds to the U. The U willingly accepts those taxpayer funds and doesn't publicly complain or challenge the legislature when they oversee and sometime micromanage the operation of the U. Most people would acknowledge that whether or not the legislature has the legal authority they most certainly have the de facto authority to have a say about beer at football games as well as many other issues at the U.
 


Go4Broke said:
It is an old adage that people (and organizations) have as much authority as they can get away with. The Minnesota legislature appoints every member of the Board of Regents and contributes a huge amount of taxpayer funds to the U. The U willingly accepts those taxpayer funds and doesn't publicly complain or challenge the legislature when they oversee and sometime micromanage the operation of the U. Most people would acknowledge that whether or not the legislature has the legal authority they most certainly have the de facto authority to have a say about beer at football games as well as many other issues at the U.
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The legislature only has as much authority as is granted to them by the state constitution. That the U accepts fund allocated by the legislature doesn't give the legislature any extra authority. I have no problem with whatever alcohol policy the Regents decide on.
 

It will be nice to finally be over with this tired topic and let the $$$ flow through the suites where it had always been planned to flow. As for the beer garden... not a bad compromise. I'm the kind of guy that would enjoy a beer or two at the game but not so much that it would be worth my effort to walk all the way down to the open end of the stadium. I doubt I will ever have a beer during a Gopher Game at TCF. For all the doom sayers that think a beer garden will ruin the experience... I disagree with you. The beauty here is everyone will be able to be "right" in the end. I've (twice) had pukers in my row. Two years ago I had a guy that couldn't make it through the national anthem at the Northwestern game before he puked and his friends dragged him away before the cops could come. If that same guy sits in the same seat this season and pukes again, someone will surely declare "SEE, LOOK WHAT THE BEER GARDEN HAS CREATED!"
 


Here's a beer garden question: will you need to have a mullet, wear a 1980s heavy metal t-shirt, and stonewashed jeans to get admitted? Will it be the same crowd from the state fair? The worst thing I can say about it is it seems like something I would expect to come out of Madison that we would then rightfully rip them for. If we can't do without it, at least put it in the general concession area.
 



While they're at it, could they ban Wisconsin cheese curds
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I say ban everything Wisconsin and that includes Wisconsin Brats and Wisconsin Beer. No Miller no Leinies. Plenty of good beers brewed with out tainted Wisconsin water.

Grain Belt, Summit, Surly, et al...
 

sec105 said:
I say ban everything Wisconsin and that includes Wisconsin Brats and Wisconsin Beer. No Miller no Leinies. Plenty of good beers brewed with out tainted Wisconsin water.

Grain Belt, Summit, Surly, et al...
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FWIW, they are required to serve at least 1 MN beer.
 

John Galt said:
Here's a beer garden question: will you need to have a mullet, wear a 1980s heavy metal t-shirt, and stonewashed jeans to get admitted? Will it be the same crowd from the state fair? The worst thing I can say about it is it seems like something I would expect to come out of Madison that we would then rightfully rip them for. If we can't do without it, at least put it in the general concession area.
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For what it's worth, I have to say that your posts in this thread kick serious amounts of ass.
 

Now I am going to pullout my Black Sabbath Heaven And Hell T Shirt out of storage. Been looking for an occasion.
 



sec105 said:
I say ban everything Wisconsin and that includes Wisconsin Brats and Wisconsin Beer. No Miller no Leinies. Plenty of good beers brewed with out tainted Wisconsin water.

Grain Belt, Summit, Surly, et al...
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+1! :clap:
 

If we are doing a beer garden.....

lets bring back wine skins. I remember the Memorial Stadium days of wine skins filled with Bali Hi, Ripple,
Mad Dog 20 etc.. I wonder how I survived those days? I think all of the above had the ingridients of "Zip Strip"
 

ruppertflywheel said:
lets bring back wine skins. I remember the Memorial Stadium days of wine skins filled with Bali Hi, Ripple,
Mad Dog 20 etc.. I wonder how I survived those days? I think all of the above had the ingridients of "Zip Strip"
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Is there a reason you left out Boone's Farm?
 

Surprised no one caught this ...

From Tom Dienhart yesterday, "RISKY MOVE: The legislature has approved alcohol sales at Minnesota’s TCF Bank Stadium. I’m just gonna say this: Not a good thing. Sets a bad example. The only reasons—and I mean ONLY reasons—this is being done is to make money and attract fans. I dare someone to spin it differently."
 

A beer garden at the Bank provides an optimal setting for me to pick fights during the games. Let's make this happen!
 

Here is something that I cannot seem to understand. How in the world can they MAKE the U sell a Minnesota brewed beer? Isn't that overstepping their authority to a whole new level? Don't get me wrong, I hope they do serve a Minnesota brew. But that should be because the U wants to sell that product, not because they are forced to.

But since they are going as far as to force them to sell a Minnesota beer, they should force them to not be allowed to sell a Wisconsin beer.
 

harrys ghost said:
From Tom Dienhart yesterday, "RISKY MOVE: The legislature has approved alcohol sales at Minnesota’s TCF Bank Stadium. I’m just gonna say this: Not a good thing. Sets a bad example. The only reasons—and I mean ONLY reasons—this is being done is to make money and attract fans. I dare someone to spin it differently."
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What's hilarious is that no one has tried to spin it at all. The U has come straight out and said they are doing it so they can make more money on premium seats.
 

DLguy said:
Here is something that I cannot seem to understand. How in the world can they MAKE the U sell a Minnesota brewed beer? Isn't that overstepping their authority to a whole new level?
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You should check out the off-topic board, they discuss this 24/7...
 

DLguy said:
Here is something that I cannot seem to understand. How in the world can they MAKE the U sell a Minnesota brewed beer? Isn't that overstepping their authority to a whole new level? Don't get me wrong, I hope they do serve a Minnesota brew. But that should be because the U wants to sell that product, not because they are forced to.

But since they are going as far as to force them to sell a Minnesota beer, they should force them to not be allowed to sell a Wisconsin beer.
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Now if the U sells local beer A and not local beer B, we have a whole new set of issues.-----------------------------------------not to mention numerous GH threads.
 

Can't wait for this. Mass quantities of alcohol served to me and thousands of other rednecks at the beer garden. Just like being at the State Fair. Simply nothing could be better.
 

Kuato Lives! said:
A beer garden at the Bank provides an optimal setting for me to pick fights during the games. Let's make this happen!
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I'm guessing it will be those in Polaris jackets vs. those wearing Arctic Cat... (pronouncing it artie cat)
 

I can't believe people are against this. Nobody is going to go to the games specifically to drink over-priced beers, so it's going to be the same crowd as before. Most people, including me, are going to simply continue to sneak in their own hard booze (who's got time for beer?) and not bother with the beer tent. The people that do choose to buy beer will be contributing money to the University. Drinking is part of college football...if you think differently, you're delusional. If you truly fear your child getting puked on, leave them at home...this is big business and an adult activity. Let's party and have some fun...
 

GopherHomer said:
If you truly fear your child getting puked on, leave them at home...this is big business and an adult activity. Let's party and have some fun...
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Yes, it's the parent's fault for having the temerity to bring their child to a college FB game.
 

Beer tent sucks. Go up to the second level of the student section. That's where the real lawlessness goes down.
 

GopherHomer said:
this is big business and an adult activity
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Delusional. This is an activity by (mostly) underage children intended for the entertainment of (mostly) underage children. It has been bastardized and misappropriated by the infusion of corporate money over the past few decades. Adults who think that college football exists for them and not for the college kids are missing the entire point.

And clearly, the only reason to not like alcohol being served at a college football game is because we're worried about our "child getting puked on". Yup, you've really cut to the core of the issue, Baxter.
 

mnsports1 said:
I'm guessing it will be those in Polaris jackets vs. those wearing Arctic Cat... (pronouncing it artie cat)
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Don't underestimate the rowdiness of the Ski-Doo crowd.

In all seriousness though one of the best things about the Fair is watching the liquored up yokels chug down sh1tty beer and fight each other. I might have to hang out in the beer Garden at the bank to catch a show or two, especially when rivals are in town.
 

GoAUpher said:
Yes, it's the parent's fault for having the temerity to bring their child to a college FB game.
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If a fool at a game pukes on a child I'm hoping he would get his @ss knocked out anyway.
 

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