Hole Poll: What grade would you give the 2020 Gophers football recruiting class?

[Plato]

NE is the best example of the folly of thinking recruiting rankings predict results on the field with any degree of certainty.
Over the years just before and right after NE joined the BIG and up to the last few years my bro in law who is/was a NE fan who drank the kool aid of the past victories and was certain they would happen again in the BIG. He yearly regaled me with NE's recruiting success. And every year muttered as either WI or MN not only defeated NE but crushed them.
That said teams like tOSU not only recruit well but have great coaching. And over the last few years is dominant. MI always recruited very well but the coaching was suspect. Clemson recruits well, has decent coaching but a very weak conference.
Chaos theory tells us the greater numbers of present variables the greater uncertainty in predicting long term results.
In general IA and WI have the advantage of showing recruits a stable coaching staff that produces winning teams and players in the NFL. If MN reaches that level with Fleck over a number of years keeping talent home will be easier. If NE continue to lose the only variable to blame is coaching and player development.

 

[Gold Rush]

Some of you are very tough graders - I think I might have had a few of you as T/A's at the U of M!

I am giving this an easy A grade. This is a solid class from top to bottom that fills several key needs for both quality and depth. I like how balanced this class is. I like hearing this class remains at a higher level at the top as previous years, but this class is way better on the bottom end with not very little drop off in talent.

Sure, Fleck could have signed 25 4 stars to get the A, but I think where the Gophers are at right now, this is as good as he is going to get at this point. I feel he did an excellent job from top to bottom and there is not a single recruit that I think isn't going to be able to help us at some point. This class is filled with kids that could excel for the Gophers.

That is why I gave it an A.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The thing I've noticed is that we are getting more recruits with other good offers. Very few players that there next best offer was a MAC school. Maybe I'm wrong about that but it seems that way to me.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

PJ does a really nice job of creating depth and balancing classes. This was a major issue for Brewster (as well as players not actually enrolling) and the reason that Kill actually brought in more talent than Brew despite worse rankings. I actually think PJ even does this slightly better than Jerry (who was good at it). For example, we will have a large number of SR DBs this year, but we have a group of JR DBs and brought in a class of 5 DBs.

There always seems to be a clear next person up. People can certainly jump those people. But we all know that Mafe and Otumweo are going to be playing significant minutes at DE with the departure of Coughlin and Winston. We all know that Wiley seems to be in line to be the #2 RB behind Mo next season. It's all pretty clear.

That is a difficult thing to develop in college football today with injuries, transferring, etc. For that, I feel like I can grade PJ today, and he does that as well or better than Jerry.


As far as the players - it seems like a good class. It's hard for me to rank them on anything other than highlights, but everyone looks great in highlights. I really like Joyner, Thomas, Glaze, Jackson, and Brown - but it's a crap shoot and I trust PJ's ability to evaluate talent.


Small gripe - I hate having 4 specialist under scholarship. Maybe my thinking about these positions is outdated, but it really seems like that's a lot to me. We are only going to have 5 TEs under scholarship next year and it seems like we play 1-3 every single offensive snap. This isn't a shot at the punter, I hope he's great. I just think that is an enormous amount of resources.

 

[giveme]

Solid B+. A little bit hard to call it an A, especially coming off a 10 win season.

 

[giveme]

I was thinking B, but I watched what PJ had to say about the guys, and I went with an A.

Expecting much better at this stage seems a bit unreasonable to me. We're consistently setting higher recruiting trends on the overall rankings (consecutively above 50's) and seems to be trending upwards. The weakest players in our classes have seen the most improvement. We don't seem to be settling to fill a spot as much anymore.

Previous years it might be easier to identify the weakest couple kids in the group where now it seems the floor to the class has been raised.

Would like more 4 and 5 starts, but that doesn't happen overnight.


I don't know how Nebraska keeps getting high ranking players year after year despite not being a major power for 20 years no matter who the coach is.

Seems really odd.

Nebraska’s ratings aren’t very high considering their football tradition.

 

[BeerFueledFF]

Small gripe - I hate having 4 specialist under scholarship. Maybe my thinking about these positions is outdated, but it really seems like that's a lot to me. We are only going to have 5 TEs under scholarship next year and it seems like we play 1-3 every single offensive snap. This isn't a shot at the punter, I hope he's great. I just think that is an enormous amount of resources.

I agree with your gripe about 4 specialists under scholarship, we need to figure out how to get more out of PWOs for our special teams going forward. Especially at positions like long snapper. 2 is the most I'd want to use, and you better have a really good kicker and punter to use those schollies.

 

[Gold Rush]

PJ does a really nice job of creating depth and balancing classes. This was a major issue for Brewster (as well as players not actually enrolling) and the reason that Kill actually brought in more talent than Brew despite worse rankings. I actually think PJ even does this slightly better than Jerry (who was good at it). For example, we will have a large number of SR DBs this year, but we have a group of JR DBs and brought in a class of 5 DBs.

There always seems to be a clear next person up. People can certainly jump those people. But we all know that Mafe and Otumweo are going to be playing significant minutes at DE with the departure of Coughlin and Winston. We all know that Wiley seems to be in line to be the #2 RB behind Mo next season. It's all pretty clear.

That is a difficult thing to develop in college football today with injuries, transferring, etc. For that, I feel like I can grade PJ today, and he does that as well or better than Jerry.


As far as the players - it seems like a good class. It's hard for me to rank them on anything other than highlights, but everyone looks great in highlights. I really like Joyner, Thomas, Glaze, Jackson, and Brown - but it's a crap shoot and I trust PJ's ability to evaluate talent.


Small gripe - I hate having 4 specialist under scholarship. Maybe my thinking about these positions is outdated, but it really seems like that's a lot to me. We are only going to have 5 TEs under scholarship next year and it seems like we play 1-3 every single offensive snap. This isn't a shot at the punter, I hope he's great. I just think that is an enormous amount of resources.

I agree with you on the 4 specialists on scholarship - that's a little heavy. At RB next year - I think there will be significant competition behind Ibrahim. Don't forget Bryce Williams who rushed for 500 yards as a freshman who will be in his third year and also freshman Ky Thomas, who I think is going to be a star. They should be in the mix, too!

 

[BeerFueledFF]

I agree with you on the 4 specialists on scholarship - that's a little heavy. At RB next year - I think there will be significant competition behind Ibrahim. Don't forget Bryce Williams who rushed for 500 yards as a freshman who will be in his third year and also freshman Ky Thomas, who I think is going to be a star. They should be in the mix, too!

Potts also looked like he had a little something when he played last year. Should be a fun competition to figure out who the 2nd of the pair is, and who is the spare.

 

[GopherJack]

The thing I've noticed is that we are getting more recruits with other good offers. Very few players that there next best offer was a MAC school. Maybe I'm wrong about that but it seems that way to me.

Nailed it. Remember the jokes on GH regarding past recruits? We laughed about which directional school in Michigan we were fighting off to land that particular recruit.

 

[Jeshurun]

On paper I'd say a B. I went with an A because I always have this overly optimistic belief that all of our recruits will end up outperforming their rankings and become stars.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Nailed it. Remember the jokes on GH regarding past recruits? We laughed about which directional school in Michigan we were fighting off to land that particular recruit.

Above all else this is the thing I have loved most about the change in recruiting since Fleck got here. So often in the past we were far and away the best offer a recruit had. Felt like we were rarely beating out other Big Ten schools for recruits and usually ending up with guys who chose us over going to the MAC. Now you look at the offer list on most of our recruits and they are full of other Big Ten or power 5 schools.

I value who else is going after a player way more then the evaluation of the recruiting services. If we are getting guys with legit options to go elsewhere in the Big Ten then that is a very good sign.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Some of you are very tough graders - I think I might have had a few of you as T/A's at the U of M!

I am giving this an easy A grade. This is a solid class from top to bottom that fills several key needs for both quality and depth. I like how balanced this class is. I like hearing this class remains at a higher level at the top as previous years, but this class is way better on the bottom end with not very little drop off in talent.

Sure, Fleck could have signed 25 4 stars to get the A, but I think where the Gophers are at right now, this is as good as he is going to get at this point. I feel he did an excellent job from top to bottom and there is not a single recruit that I think isn't going to be able to help us at some point. This class is filled with kids that could excel for the Gophers.

That is why I gave it an A.

The only thing that kept me from going A was losing out on some instate kids to other Big Ten schools. I don't worry so much about where a player is from but for us to really take the next step in recruiting I think we need to become the destination for the top instate guys on a yearly basis.

I really like the look of this class and will be very interesting to see how it shakes out over the next few years. There are some guys in here that have the look of potential superstars but of course you never really know what is going to happen until they get on campus.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Ask me in 3-4 years.

How many times are there surprises, both good and bad...

 

[Gold Rush]

The only thing that kept me from going A was losing out on some instate kids to other Big Ten schools. I don't worry so much about where a player is from but for us to really take the next step in recruiting I think we need to become the destination for the top instate guys on a yearly basis.

I really like the look of this class and will be very interesting to see how it shakes out over the next few years. There are some guys in here that have the look of potential superstars but of course you never really know what is going to happen until they get on campus.

Absolutely! It should be noted any grades at this point are preliminary based on potential and the true grade arrives in 4-5 years!

 

[short ornery norwegian]

File me under "Don't have a clue." If you read House's write-up on the class, it makes every player sound like he should be a 1st-team all-B1G selection.

And then the rankings come out and you see a team ranking in the 30's and some services putting the Gophers at 8th or 9th in the conference.

to be clear - I agree that Fleck is bringing in overall better talent. The question for me is how much better?

If - on a scale of 10 - the recruiting has improved from (say) a 6 under Kill/Claeys to a 4 under Fleck, that is clear improvement. But, is it enough to make a real difference?

It still seems like the Gophers are in the same place as before - recruit a lot of 3* kids and hope to "coach them up."

Just once, why can't the Gophers get at least 1 or 2 kids who don't have to be coached up - 1 or 2 kids who walk on campus and immediately become the best player at their position. is that possible at MN? I don't know. But, I think that is what at least some people expected from Fleck.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Just once, why can't the Gophers get at least 1 or 2 kids who don't have to be coached up - 1 or 2 kids who walk on campus and immediately become the best player at their position. is that possible at MN? I don't know. But, I think that is what at least some people expected from Fleck.

It is pretty rare for kids to come in ready to be the best player at their position right away in college football. It happens but it is not something that should be counted on in football no matter who the coach is. That is more of a basketball mentality. With that said....

Rashod Bateman - Maybe wasn't best receiver on roster his freshman year but he was pretty dang good right off the bat.

Daniel Faalele - Started half the year as a true freshman offensive lineman. That does not happen often.

Curtis Dunlap - already a starter as a redshirt freshman

Tanner Morgan - Needed the redshirt year but as a redshirt freshman showed signs of promise and then lit it up as a redshirt sophomore.

 

[BeerFueledFF]

It is pretty rare for kids to come in ready to be the best player at their position right away in college football. It happens but it is not something that should be counted on in football no matter who the coach is. That is more of a basketball mentality. With that said....

Rashod Bateman - Maybe wasn't best receiver on roster his freshman year but he was pretty dang good right off the bat.

Daniel Faalele - Started half the year as a true freshman offensive lineman. That does not happen often.

Curtis Dunlap - already a starter as a redshirt freshman

Tanner Morgan - Needed the redshirt year but as a redshirt freshman showed signs of promise and then lit it up as a redshirt sophomore.

Winfield was also making a nice impact as a Freshman.

Ideally, we wouldn't need to use true freshman as anything more than rotational pieces or special teams players though.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Not sure how this can be anything less than an A. When you look at Fleck, his last 3 classes have been better than any class in Gopher history (the rankings era) with the exception of the 2008 class which didn't turn out to be nearly what it was rated. Am I correct on that?

 

[btowngopher]

File me under "Don't have a clue." If you read House's write-up on the class, it makes every player sound like he should be a 1st-team all-B1G selection.

And then the rankings come out and you see a team ranking in the 30's and some services putting the Gophers at 8th or 9th in the conference.

to be clear - I agree that Fleck is bringing in overall better talent. The question for me is how much better?

If - on a scale of 10 - the recruiting has improved from (say) a 6 under Kill/Claeys to a 4 under Fleck, that is clear improvement. But, is it enough to make a real difference?

It still seems like the Gophers are in the same place as before - recruit a lot of 3* kids and hope to "coach them up."

Just once, why can't the Gophers get at least 1 or 2 kids who don't have to be coached up - 1 or 2 kids who walk on campus and immediately become the best player at their position. is that possible at MN? I don't know. But, I think that is what at least some people expected from Fleck.

Are you not aware of the on field results this year?

 

[OldBob53]

Star ratings are certainly not precise and sometimes very wrong. However, 5 star recruits generally do very well compared to 3 star guys. There are exceptions of course.

How many stars did Winfield get coming out of HS? I doubt more than 3, but he's an All American now.

 

[GopherGangsta]

B-........Not great but better than Kill.

 

[John Galt]

Ask me in 3-4 years.

How many times are there surprises, both good and bad...

In 2014 we took Rodney Smith and Jeff Jones who was our highest rated recruit ever. Who would have predicted that Rodney would be our all-time leader in yards from scrimmage and Jones wouldn’t have a single rushing yard in his career.

 

[PitinoFan]

It is pretty rare for kids to come in ready to be the best player at their position right away in college football. It happens but it is not something that should be counted on in football no matter who the coach is. That is more of a basketball mentality. With that said....

Rashod Bateman - Maybe wasn't best receiver on roster his freshman year but he was pretty dang good right off the bat.

Daniel Faalele - Started half the year as a true freshman offensive lineman. That does not happen often.

Curtis Dunlap - already a starter as a redshirt freshman

Tanner Morgan - Needed the redshirt year but as a redshirt freshman showed signs of promise and then lit it up as a redshirt sophomore.

I would add Ibrahim with his 1000 yard season in his redshirt Freshman year to that list.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Not sure how this can be anything less than an A. When you look at Fleck, his last 3 classes have been better than any class in Gopher history (the rankings era) with the exception of the 2008 class which didn't turn out to be nearly what it was rated. Am I correct on that?

Suppose it does depend a lot on what you are grading against. As far as a Big Ten class is concerned I put it at a B but if you look at it compared to how Gopher Football classes have ranked in the recruiting rankings era then it would probably bump up into the A range.

We are definitely bringing in more highly regarded players on paper then we have under previous coaching staffs. Now we just have to find out what this current staff can get out of those players and if they can build on one of the best seasons in the past 50 years or so of Gopher football.

 

[kellyleeks]

High end talent = C - not happy with only 2 four stars.

Overall Class = B - what is amazing is how every recruit we get seems to have competitive P5 offers. The overall depth of this class is impressive. While I would love a few more high profile recruits, I am very happy with having an entire class that seems to be ranked well.

Agreed. I gave them a “B”, but much closer a “C” than an “A”. Definitely not an elite class.

 

[Go Gophers Rah]

After the dust has settled for the early signing period, I give a C.
On Rivals we are 33 out of 65 P5 conference teams and on 247 we are 35/65 and in the Big Ten, we are 9th and 10th on the two services. Outside of the elite helmet schools, a place like Minnesota will never be higher than 15-20 nationally.
I have no other frame of reference than the recruiting ranking sites, so based on those, here is my grading criteria:
A = top 20 nationally top 3 or 4 in the B1G
B = 20 - 30 nationally top 5 or 6 in the B1G
C = 30 - 40 nationally top 7 -9 in the B1G
D = 40 - 55 nationally top 10-12 in the B1G
F = 55+ nationally 13th or 14th in the B1G

It seems we have at least one more scholarship to give. I don't know how many remaining scholarships other teams have, but it is possible that we could move up a little bit in early February.

Like a lot of other posters, I believe this year's success will have more impact on 2021 and 2022 recruits than it has on 2020 recruits.

 

[Veritas]

That is correct.
But when you report a composite or average the answer cannot be in more significant figures than least significant figure in the group you are averaging. If one scouting report use 1-5 stars then the composite using that report can be in only one significant figure. Reports I have seen are using up to six significant figures. You can believe them particularly if you pay to get the reports but they practice math lies.

OMG it is sooo nice to have someone post about statistics who actually knows what he or she is talking about! I think you should get a 9.527 out of 10.