Hire a coach from FCS and pay him ~$2MM & use savings for NIL?

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SeaBee_Gopher

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I heard this on a podcast and thought it was very interesting. I think they used the example as Indiana because they are looking for a coach. Why bring another coach in at $8 million/year or whatever when you could hire a coach from FCS or group of 5 that currently makes only ~$1 million/year, double his salary and use the rest on NIL? I know universities can't pay players, but there has to be a work around. They suggested the COACH signs for $7-8 million, but agrees to DONATE that $5-6 million in savings to NIL. It would have to be a coach that otherwise would likely not get hired at the P5 level, so an average coach, not a perceived great one that thinks he can make the jump soon without this compromise. Maybe one that is close to retirement and lives in the same state, etc. What innovative university is going to figure this out first?

The logic was if a school with lower than average NIL like Indiana or MN could add $5 million or more to the NIL bucket through coaching salary savings, how much would that help? It might not make a team equal to Ohio State, but it would certainly make them much more competitive. Now you can afford to buy a very good quarterback and shore up a couple additional positions that your normal NIL couldn't handle. College coaches are way overpaid when compared to any pro sport where the players make most of the money because they are the most important. If talented players are the most important thing, then a competent coach with millions in annual salary savings might just be good enough, right?
 

My point is college football is sort of broken right now, but that leaves opportunities for innovation. Maybe someone figures something out that does actually level the playing field a bit. I have hope!
 







The OP's thought has been in the back of my head. I'm guessing there are contractual clauses and/or NCAA rules that don't allow a coach, as an employee of the university, to contribute to player funds.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I would argue that having a good/great coach is still just as important if not more important than NIL dollars.
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I’d be curious to see if that’s accurate.

I also wonder if it matters if the number of coaches who are truly better than all the rest are in significant enough numbers to matter….

If there’s 12 great HCs, why spend a ton of money if you don’t have one of the 12….
 



Not saying it could never work, but FCS to B10 is a huge step up for a coach to be making (yes I'm familiar with Chris Klieman and his trajectory). I would think the amount of extra $ going into the player pool still isn't enough to compete with the big dogs, and likely leaves you with a lesser coach. Intriguing thought though.
 


Assuming a coach's donation to player funds is an NCAA violation, a "work around" would be to divert previous donations paid direct to the university to NIL funds. The problem is, the universities bank on getting those donations and won't willingly give that up.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Assuming a coach's donation to player funds is an NCAA violation, a "work around" would be to divert previous donations paid direct to the university to NIL funds. The problem is, the universities bank on getting those donations and won't willingly give that up.
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I think universities are more flexible about it all…. Dinkytown Athletics is featured on the big screen during games… they’re into the whole system.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It would but I interpreted this as more of a very general thought experiment about resource allocation. In that way it is interesting.
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This is true. There will be shifts in resource allocation in the future. The creative universities will benefit from it. I think the NIL landscape shifts power to the players from coaches, so it's possible there will be a reduction in coach salaries in the future. Up until NIL, head coaches were kings that ruled their programs; they were effectively team presidents, general managers, salesmen, and teachers/coaches all rolled into one and had the power to make or break players. With NIL, the business of college football becomes much more important and the coach operates at the mercy of player funding.

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I think universities are more flexible about it all…. Dinkytown Athletics is featured on the big screen during games… they’re into the whole system.
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I hope hope hope the higher ups in the University realize that fielding a good football team brings in a ton of positive marketing, increases demand for student enrollment, and increases alumni and parent donations.
 

Coaching is more important and for us way more relevant to success than NIL. Fleck made a mistake mentioning we need NIL to compete.
 

gopherjay said:
Coaching is more important and for us way more relevant to success than NIL. Fleck made a mistake mentioning we need NIL to compete.
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I don't think he made a mistake at all and am glad he's being proactive with NIL. He now needs to sell donors as much as he needs to sell the program to players. A lot of coaches are mentioning NIL. Rhule had a viral video a few days ago doing the same.
 


I like the idea, but I'd be really concerned a team that did this would end up with a Ben Johnson or Tim Brewster situation. Someone WAY over their head.
 

Could the U direct part of its Big Ten television revenue payment to the Dinkytown Collective, so it never passed thru the U’s hands or accounts? And reduce HC and sub-coach pay accordingly? Look for up-and-comer coaches. Have our coach roster get picked over annually by helmet schools rather than our player roster.
 

The fact that we are even having discussions as ridiculous as this shows what a joke the whole NIL thing has become. We are so far removed from what NIL was meant to be in college football at this point.

Not that anyone is surprised but it is impressive how quickly the whole thing got bastardized in college football and basketball.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It would, but I interpreted this discussion as more of a very general thought experiment about resource allocation. In that way it is interesting.
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Certain college football players are definitely “underpaid”, and that seems to be almost entirely to the benefit of head coaches (who are pretty clearly overpaid, when compared to similar organizations.)

Since schools can’t move money around freely, the most valuable head coaches have typically been the ones who can convince valuable contributors to return for another season (rather than opt for the NFL draft, or transfer).

Nowadays, rampant cheating (paying for commitments, transfers, or pay-to-play, under the disguise of NIL), which is going mostly ignored, has really changed the calculation. The coach who could keep his team together 5 years ago may no longer have the tools necessary.
 


Goldmember said:
...the most valuable head coaches have typically been the ones who can convince valuable contributors to return for another season (rather than opt for the NFL draft, or transfer).
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So PJ's a valuable coach because he got CRAB, Morgan, Mo, JMS to stick around, as well as Nubin this year? I'd disagree.

I think of the coaches regularly in the CFP and how they constantly lose players to transfer and the NFL and I think those coaches are more valuable still than a guy like PJ.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
Could the U direct part of its Big Ten television revenue payment to the Dinkytown Collective, so it never passed thru the U’s hands or accounts? And reduce HC and sub-coach pay accordingly? Look for up-and-comer coaches. Have our coach roster get picked over annually by helmet schools rather than our player roster.
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No.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
I heard this on a podcast and thought it was very interesting. I think they used the example as Indiana because they are looking for a coach. Why bring another coach in at $8 million/year or whatever when you could hire a coach from FCS or group of 5 that currently makes only ~$1 million/year, double his salary and use the rest on NIL? I know universities can't pay players, but there has to be a work around. They suggested the COACH signs for $7-8 million, but agrees to DONATE that $5-6 million in savings to NIL. It would have to be a coach that otherwise would likely not get hired at the P5 level, so an average coach, not a perceived great one that thinks he can make the jump soon without this compromise. Maybe one that is close to retirement and lives in the same state, etc. What innovative university is going to figure this out first?

The logic was if a school with lower than average NIL like Indiana or MN could add $5 million or more to the NIL bucket through coaching salary savings, how much would that help? It might not make a team equal to Ohio State, but it would certainly make them much more competitive. Now you can afford to buy a very good quarterback and shore up a couple additional positions that your normal NIL couldn't handle. College coaches are way overpaid when compared to any pro sport where the players make most of the money because they are the most important. If talented players are the most important thing, then a competent coach with millions in annual salary savings might just be good enough, right?
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An interesting proposal. We've tried more than a handful of coaches since Warmath and none have been able to attract the level of talent needed to be in the top third of the BiG -- why not see if money will get top players to come to Minneapolis? I think the idea has merit, but has no chance of being tried.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
So PJ's a valuable coach because he got CRAB, Morgan, Mo, JMS to stick around, as well as Nubin this year? I'd disagree.

I think of the coaches regularly in the CFP and how they constantly lose players to transfer and the NFL and I think those coaches are more valuable still than a guy like PJ.
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Players are important. A coach’s role in player retention isn’t all of their value, but in college football it’s a significant percentage.

Ask yourself this: If you are paying “market value” for Nubin to play this year (or Winfield in 2019) what would you pay? Would it be more or less than $1mm?

Now consider that you can’t actually pay them to play (even in the era of NIL it’s technically against the rules), so they have to want to come back for another year of football, school, and campus life. The coach that runs a program where those players are attracted to coming back for the experience can be attributed to a big % of that retained value.
 

It would be classic Minnesota sports for the U to get nailed laundering NIL money through coaches salaries.

Anyways, I think the NIL thing is mostly a red herring. The portal is much more threatening to the Gophers than NIL. Who besides Bucky have we lost due to NIL ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the key defensive players we lost from last season was due to NIL. The real players in NIL are schools we wouldn't win recruiting battles against even pre NIL.
 

we've discussed this in another thread.

there is a very weird situation with NIL. there is the 'original' NIL where players sell T-shirts, do endorsements and sign autographs, etc. then there is the 'pay for play' NIL where some rich guy pays a HS player or a transfer 6-figure (or allegedly 7-figure) deals to sign with a certain school.

but either way, as I understand the NCAA rules, none of that money can come from the school. It all has to come from outside the school. So, you can't divert TV money to NIL - at least not legally.

A Coach or an AD can suggest that the public donate to a collective. They can arrange for a Booster to meet with the collective and encourage that booster to make a donation - but the Coach and AD cannot tie that donation to a specific program or athlete. (So under the rules, Fleck cannot meet with a booster and say "we need $250,000 to sign Quarterback X from the portal.")

it's a weird sort of dance with and around the rules. nobody likes it. but the NCAA has basically tossed up its hands and is pleading with Congress to pass national legislation.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
we've discussed this in another thread.

there is a very weird situation with NIL. there is the 'original' NIL where players sell T-shirts, do endorsements and sign autographs, etc. then there is the 'pay for play' NIL where some rich guy pays a HS player or a transfer 6-figure (or allegedly 7-figure) deals to sign with a certain school.

but either way, as I understand the NCAA rules, none of that money can come from the school. It all has to come from outside the school. So, you can't divert TV money to NIL - at least not legally.

A Coach or an AD can suggest that the public donate to a collective. They can arrange for a Booster to meet with the collective and encourage that booster to make a donation - but the Coach and AD cannot tie that donation to a specific program or athlete. (So under the rules, Fleck cannot meet with a booster and say "we need $250,000 to sign Quarterback X from the portal.")

it's a weird sort of dance with and around the rules. nobody likes it. but the NCAA has basically tossed up its hands and is pleading with Congress to pass national legislation.
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Yes, no school or employee of the school can donate to a collective.
 

Bring back the Axe said:
It would be classic Minnesota sports for the U to get nailed laundering NIL money through coaches salaries.

Anyways, I think the NIL thing is mostly a red herring. The portal is much more threatening to the Gophers than NIL. Who besides Bucky have we lost due to NIL ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the key defensive players we lost from last season was due to NIL. The real players in NIL are schools we wouldn't win recruiting battles against even pre NIL.
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I agree that the free transfer portal is worse, but it's kind of a combination as guys can get lured into the transfer with cash offers.

And honestly, the portal affects all schools equally.
 

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