Hey Tubby Haters!!!!

[scher215]

Not clear on how being a "fan" means wearing your blinders 24/7. I have been a huge fan since the Dutcher era; I just don't like the "we can't do better than this.." or the "we are lucky to have..." mentality.

I don't think you need to wear blinders by any means. Criticism is fine for any sport, work, activity, etc. However, it is when people are negative all. the. time. and are ripping kids and coaches constantly. As far as I am concerned, these kids especially, but the coach too (Tubby, Monson, whoever) are giving their all and working towards making a school that i love better and as long as someone is working their tail off to do that, they have my support. Sometimes though, no matter how hard someone tries it doesn't work out and they get fired.

My biggest issue with the hate of Tubby is that people forget that he had the Gophers at #15 in the country, there were talks of elite 8's and final fours. They upset #8 UNC. They upset #8 Purdue. Not making excuses, but when two of your PG's are gone, it is tough for any coach to win. Tubby probably should have started Mav instead of Blake. I think even he would admit the downward spiral was partially his fault.

I'm squarely in minngg's corner in this discussion. He (and I) am old enough to remember when we actually had HIGH standards for MN hoops. When we expected to contend for the Big Ten title nearly every year. Tubby is far, far away from that presently. I'm pleased that the decision to extend him has been back-burnered. I wish him well this season, but if he doesn't show dramatic improvement soon, he's gotta be ushered out the door. Same as anyone else. And yes, I'm aware we'll probably win tomorrow and have put together a nice little 3-game streak. Won't change my thoughts much. Let's step back after the season and see where we are then. Til then, I'm a Tubby skeptic based on his record here thus far.

Very well put. I have a hard time not respecting that opinion. The issue many have with Minngg is the fact he either doesn't articulate it this way. Many of the posts come across as holding personal grudges against Tubby, and for some reason Al Nolen.

I am not trying to say to be a blind follower, but it is the constant negativity that drives me insane and how quickly we forget. Bring up Tubby's conference record, fine. But then don't ignore all the ranked teams they've beaten, on the road, neutral sites, and at home. The fact that (I am guessing?) less than 365 days ago we were top 15 in the country and looking at a potential final four. Tubby is not a worthless coach. It's been a rough go lately, but I don't think it is accurate to call his tenure here a failure just yet. Minngg is already writing off that Tyus won't play here, and everyone hates Tubby, and Tubby is awful and will never get a good recruit and it just gets old. Being negative about the product is one thing, but being negative because of something that hasn't even happened yet is odd to me. People already saying Andre Hollins is a bust and Ellenson and Buggs are garbage when they havent even stepped on campus yet. It would be like demanding Rubio benched now because there is no way he will win the title in 2016. It is still a long season, lets enjoy it at least somewhat. I couldn't imagine spending a whole season with zero hope, zero optimism, and always thinking my team sucks and will never win a game.

 

[minngg]

I don't think you need to wear blinders by any means. Criticism is fine for any sport, work, activity, etc. However, it is when people are negative all. the. time. and are ripping kids and coaches constantly. As far as I am concerned, these kids especially, but the coach too (Tubby, Monson, whoever) are giving their all and working towards making a school that i love better and as long as someone is working their tail off to do that, they have my support. Sometimes though, no matter how hard someone tries it doesn't work out and they get fired.

My biggest issue with the hate of Tubby is that people forget that he had the Gophers at #15 in the country, there were talks of elite 8's and final fours. They upset #8 UNC. They upset #8 Purdue. Not making excuses, but when two of your PG's are gone, it is tough for any coach to win. Tubby probably should have started Mav instead of Blake. I think even he would admit the downward spiral was partially his fault.



Very well put. I have a hard time not respecting that opinion. The issue many have with Minngg is the fact he either doesn't articulate it this way. Many of the posts come across as holding personal grudges against Tubby, and for some reason Al Nolen.

I am not trying to say to be a blind follower, but it is the constant negativity that drives me insane and how quickly we forget. Bring up Tubby's conference record, fine. But then don't ignore all the ranked teams they've beaten, on the road, neutral sites, and at home. The fact that (I am guessing?) less than 365 days ago we were top 15 in the country and looking at a potential final four. Tubby is not a worthless coach. It's been a rough go lately, but I don't think it is accurate to call his tenure here a failure just yet. Minngg is already writing off that Tyus won't play here, and everyone hates Tubby, and Tubby is awful and will never get a good recruit and it just gets old. Being negative about the product is one thing, but being negative because of something that hasn't even happened yet is odd to me. People already saying Andre Hollins is a bust and Ellenson and Buggs are garbage when they havent even stepped on campus yet. It would be like demanding Rubio benched now because there is no way he will win the title in 2016. It is still a long season, lets enjoy it at least somewhat. I couldn't imagine spending a whole season with zero hope, zero optimism, and always thinking my team sucks and will never win a game.

You are not being honest. I never said "everyone hates Tubby". I have never said Tubby will never get a good recruit. I did say Tyus won't play here but only because he won't. I never said Hollins will be a bust. I never said Ellenson and Buggs are garbage. I have never thought we will never win a game this season. Never. I root for the Gophers to win every game.

Now the truth. Tubby has done nothing to deserve an extension. I am sick of people making excuses for him. It isn't just me that wants to see more. MN fans, KY fans (who happen to know basketball) ran him out of town. I just don't understand why anyone would want to extend a coach with a big salary when he hasn't won.

 

[zambam]

nm

 

[GophersInIowa]

You are not being honest. I never said "everyone hates Tubby". I have never said Tubby will never get a good recruit. I did say Tyus won't play here but only because he won't. I never said Hollins will be a bust. I never said Ellenson and Buggs are garbage. I have never thought we will never win a game this season. Never. I root for the Gophers to win every game.

Now the truth. Tubby has done nothing to deserve an extension. I am sick of people making excuses for him. It isn't just me that wants to see more. MN fans, KY fans (who happen to know basketball) ran him out of town. I just don't understand why anyone would want to extend a coach with a big salary when he hasn't won.

No better than you claiming things without backing it up. You still won't answer my question about Tubby being lazy in recruiting. What examples do you have? Or did you just make it up to help your cause?

 

[zambam]

No better than you claiming things without backing it up. You still won't answer my question about Tubby being lazy in recruiting. What examples do you have? Or did you just make it up to help your cause?

Some people here believe that it is simply the hardest worker that gets the recruit, therefore Tubby didn't work hard enough to get the top recruits.

 

[minngg]

No better than you claiming things without backing it up. You still won't answer my question about Tubby being lazy in recruiting. What examples do you have? Or did you just make it up to help your cause?

I said there are rumors that Tubby is here to retire and has lost his fire. There were rumors at KY when the recruiting went in the toilet at one of the easiest places in the country to recruit. If you haven't heard these rumors you haven't been listening. You want evidence of people making excuses for him? I can bump 100's of posts if you want me to. So, were are my claims without backup???

 

[scher215]

You are not being honest. I never said "everyone hates Tubby". I have never said Tubby will never get a good recruit. I did say Tyus won't play here but only because he won't. I never said Hollins will be a bust. I never said Ellenson and Buggs are garbage. I have never thought we will never win a game this season. Never. I root for the Gophers to win every game.

Now the truth. Tubby has done nothing to deserve an extension. I am sick of people making excuses for him. It isn't just me that wants to see more. MN fans, KY fans (who happen to know basketball) ran him out of town. I just don't understand why anyone would want to extend a coach with a big salary when he hasn't won.

I didn't mean to imply that all of those things were said by you. Those are comments that have been made by various people on this board.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I said there are rumors that Tubby is here to retire and has lost his fire. There were rumors at KY when the recruiting went in the toilet at one of the easiest places in the country to recruit. If you haven't heard these rumors you haven't been listening. You want evidence of people making excuses for him? I can bump 100's of posts if you want me to. So, were are my claims without backup???

Rumors are just that, rumors. Maybe they're true, but you have nothing to back it up with. Show me examples of him being lazy. Just because he wasn't getting the top players at Kentucky his last few years doesn't mean he's unmotivated or lazy. Your comment, "I do not want to see us stuck in mediocrity for years under an unmotivated coach" to me means you have proof or examples. You've taken "I heard this rumor" and turned it into it being the truth in your mind.

In the end Tubby could be a big failure but I don't think that's the case yet.

 

[Parski1]

I said there are rumors that Tubby is here to retire and has lost his fire. There were rumors at KY when the recruiting went in the toilet at one of the easiest places in the country to recruit. If you haven't heard these rumors you haven't been listening. You want evidence of people making excuses for him? I can bump 100's of posts if you want me to. So, were are my claims without backup???

Tubby Hater! I bet you live in Wisconsin.

 

[notagopherfan]

Rumors are just that, rumors. Maybe they're true, but you have nothing to back it up with. Show me examples of him being lazy. Just because he wasn't getting the top players at Kentucky his last few years doesn't mean he's unmotivated or lazy. Your comment, "I do not want to see us stuck in mediocrity for years under an unmotivated coach" to me means you have proof or examples. You've taken "I heard this rumor" and turned it into it being the truth in your mind.

In the end Tubby could be a big failure but I don't think that's the case yet.

George Felton leaving uk was the biggest reason recruiting suffered. Thankfully he had locked up a good class before he went to work for the indiana pacers scouting dept. First class 2002 that didn't have felton as the lead recruiter sucked... 2003. sucked.. 1 legit star in 2 classes just doesn't get it done at kentucky. 9 players in 2 classes, not 1 5 star, 2 4 star guys and bunch of role players. of course 2004 uk had the #1 class but he followed that year with mediocre class for 2005. So the perception was that he got lazy but it's probably more to do with his assistant coaches.. none of which came to minnesota with him. i believe he had it fixed by the time he left for minnesota but the 3 classes that sucked had done the damage.

 

[scher215]

George Felton leaving uk was the biggest reason recruiting suffered. Thankfully he had locked up a good class before he went to work for the indiana pacers scouting dept. First class 2002 that didn't have felton as the lead recruiter sucked... 2003. sucked.. 1 legit star in 2 classes just doesn't get it done at kentucky. 9 players in 2 classes, not 1 5 star, 2 4 star guys and bunch of role players. of course 2004 uk had the #1 class but he followed that year with mediocre class for 2005. So the perception was that he got lazy but it's probably more to do with his assistant coaches.. none of which came to minnesota with him. i believe he had it fixed by the time he left for minnesota but the 3 classes that sucked had done the damage.

Ultimately, it is on Tubby's shoulders to recruit. That said, any way Felton comes back to Tubby's side? lol I bet this is why he wanted Jimmy Williams though too.

 

[notagopherfan]

Ultimately, it is on Tubby's shoulders to recruit. That said, any way Felton comes back to Tubby's side? lol I bet this is why he wanted Jimmy Williams though too.

i think felton is happy with the spurs. Though one never knows, felton and tubby go way back.

i don't think his recruiting at minnesota has been bad. Vince Taylor has a good recruiting track record and probably will be a finalist for the Western Kentucky Job as he was the last time it was open. Anyway, He's gotten the 2 best prospects in the state since he's been there. of course 1 of them turned out to be a knuckle head(white) but its hard to lure talent to come there so he's done about as good as could be expected without a practice facility. The formula for a school like minnesota is to hope to have a big time player every year or 2 and lock those guys up. Find some good juco transfers and some other under the radar guys you can develop. he has had some bad luck as well.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

I'm squarely in minngg's corner in this discussion. He (and I) am old enough to remember when we actually had HIGH standards for MN hoops. When we expected to contend for the Big Ten title nearly every year. Tubby is far, far away from that presently. I'm pleased that the decision to extend him has been back-burnered. I wish him well this season, but if he doesn't show dramatic improvement soon, he's gotta be ushered out the door. Same as anyone else. And yes, I'm aware we'll probably win tomorrow and have put together a nice little 3-game streak. Won't change my thoughts much. Let's step back after the season and see where we are then. Til then, I'm a Tubby skeptic based on his record here thus far.

Do tell when that time was.....

 

[Maximus]

Do tell when that time was.....

'

Considering Minnesota has won two big ten titles in the last 74 years, I'm guessing he means 1906-37 when they won six. And if he remembers that time, then we should all respect our elders.

 

[tjgopher]

I'm old enough to remember when we actually had HIGH standards for MN hoops. When we expected to contend for the Big Ten title nearly every year.

So, you're basically counting the four years of Musselman the norm? Outside of that, unless you're about 95 years old, Minnesota basketball has NEVER contended for the Big Ten title nearly every year in your lifetime.

Monson never finished higher than 4th place in 8 years.

Clem finished higher than 4th place once in 13 years (and that was a vacated Big Ten championship).

Dutch finished higher than 4th place three times in 11 years.

That's four top four finishes in the last 31 years (2 Big Ten titles, one that doesn't count).

In the 25 years prior to Musselman, the Gophers had exactly zero Big Ten titles and were in the Top 3 only nine of the 25 years.

Musselman was the clear outlier.

I think some people have a weird view of Gopher basketball history. There is exactly one pre-expansion Big Ten program that has been to FEWER NCAA tourneys than Minnesota and that's Northwestern. Otherwise, every other program has been to more NCAAs. In fact, we're in ninth spot and not very close to being in 8th spot. We are not a basketball factory. Things need to change for this program to go to a higher level. Things like practice facilities, resources, maybe even (gulp) a new arena.

 

[Dr.Don]

Please do not use facts to interfere with the opinions of anonymous Gopher bashers who try to impress people with their demands when the only demands they have ever had met were with their high school girlfriend, Rosy Palm.

 

[Parski1]

Please do not use facts to interfere with the opinions of anonymous Gopher bashers who try to impress people with their demands when the only demands they have ever had met were with their high school girlfriend, Rosy Palm.

You sure do use a lot of masterbation references here on Gopherhole.

 

[Parski1]

Hey (Minngg) where are you? Come out of hiding and give us one of your anti-Tubby rants tonight. I mean we only won by 23 so you should have a lot to complain about.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Why would it be so strange for someone to question Tubby Smith as a hire? The program hasn't lived up to it's expectations, especially last year. When you have a disappointing season and then start out 0-4 in the Big 10, I think it's pretty natural to question the coach.

 

[Parski1]

Why would it be so strange for someone to question Tubby Smith as a hire? The program hasn't lived up to it's expectations, especially last year. When you have a disappointing season and then start out 0-4 in the Big 10, I think it's pretty natural to question the coach.

It goes beyond just questioning for some people Bob. Some are already calling for his head - or at least 3 games ago they were.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It goes beyond just questioning for some people Bob. Some are already calling for his head - or at least 3 games ago they were.

I'm not calling for his head, but I think if he wasn't Tubby Smith (if we was just another coach), more people would have been calling for his head 10 days ago.

 

[Gold Vision]

I'm not calling for his head, but I think if he wasn't Tubby Smith (if we was just another coach), more people would have been calling for his head 10 days ago.

Why do people keep saying this? There were a ton of people on this board and in the media seriously questioning Tubby. Rightfully so, they were in the midst of a serious slide. I don't see any holding back of feelings because of his name, in fact, I think he has had higher expectations because of his name.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Why do people keep saying this? There were a ton of people on this board and in the media seriously questioning Tubby. Rightfully so, they were in the midst of a serious slide. I don't see any holding back of feelings because of his name, in fact, I think he has had higher expectations because of his name.

Of course there is some, I'd think there would be considerably more. With the negative publicity the team has had over the past few years (Trevor, Royce, Al and Rodney academic issues) and the fact that the team has underperformed, I think if our coach wasn't Tubby Smith, the vitriol aimed in his direction would be intensified.

 

[Gold Vision]

Of course there is some, I'd think there would be considerably more. With the negative publicity the team has had over the past few years (Trevor, Royce, Al and Rodney academic issues) and the fact that the team has underperformed, I think if our coach wasn't Tubby Smith, the vitriol aimed in his direction would be intensified.

I guess we are just going to have to disagree on how much heat there has been.

Hopefully they just keep winning!

 

[howieramone]

Of course there is some, I'd think there would be considerably more. With the negative publicity the team has had over the past few years (Trevor, Royce, Al and Rodney academic issues) and the fact that the team has underperformed, I think if our coach wasn't Tubby Smith, the vitriol aimed in his direction would be intensified.

Bob, the sophomore class to be is going to take us to the promised land. We are watching a very good group of young players develop. We're fighting the same battle I'm sure you were fighting when people were screaming for Kill's head after 3 or 4 games. Same mentality and most likely some of the same posters. They got chased off the football board and landed here.

 

[Parski1]

Of course there is some, I'd think there would be considerably more. With the negative publicity the team has had over the past few years (Trevor, Royce, Al and Rodney academic issues) and the fact that the team has underperformed, I think if our coach wasn't Tubby Smith, the vitriol aimed in his direction would be intensified.

Bob there is a difference between questioning Tubby and others saying he can't recruit and should be fired....such as what Minngg has been spewing in the Gopher hoop threads.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Bob, the sophomore class to be is going to take us to the promised land. We are watching a very good group of young players develop. We're fighting the same battle I'm sure you were fighting when people were screaming for Kill's head after 3 or 4 games. Same mentality and most likely some of the same posters. They got chased off the football board and landed here.

No I hear you, and I probably want to give coaches more slack than just about anyone. I don't want Tubby to be fired and I never did. My whole point was that it isn't surprising to me that he is coming under a lot of pressure to be fired and (outside of gopherhole), I was surprised that up until we were 0-4, it wasn't more intense.

I'm glad they are winning, I thought Doogie's article about Tubby not being able to recruit was preposterous, and I am really pumped up about their prospects. I think Coleman could be the best Gopher in a long time.

 

[Formo]

Lets look at the first 4 B1G games our Gophs lost:

@ Illinois, Lost in 2OTs.
@ Michigan, Lost by 5 points.
Iowa, Lost by 2 points.
Purdue, Lost by 13 points.

Illinois and Michigan are good to very good teams, better than us IMO. Iowa is sneaky this year.. This is the same Iowa squad that beat Wisky (who's been considered better than us as well). The only inexcusable 'L' is Purdue, and not because of the talent or how good they are.. but by how the Gophs just looked like they were playing in mud and uninspired.

Considering we are without our best player, I just want to know exactly what the Tubby haters (my uncle is one of them, and he grinds on my nerves with his ultra mood swings) would have liked to see differently with the beginning of B1G play. As it stands now.. Yes, we are 8th in the B1G standings.. but are only 2 games behind OSU. All we can respectably ask from Tubby's squad, IMO, is competitive games against the top 20 B1G teams (like against Illinois/Indiana) and beat the teams that we probably should (like NU/Iowa/Purdue/UNL).

 

[scools12]

Lets look at the first 4 B1G games our Gophs lost:

@ Illinois, Lost in 2OTs.
@ Michigan, Lost by 5 points.
Iowa, Lost by 2 points.
Purdue, Lost by 13 points.

Illinois and Michigan are good to very good teams, better than us IMO. Iowa is sneaky this year.. This is the same Iowa squad that beat Wisky (who's been considered better than us as well). The only inexcusable 'L' is Purdue, and not because of the talent or how good they are.. but by how the Gophs just looked like they were playing in mud and uninspired.

Considering we are without our best player, I just want to know exactly what the Tubby haters (my uncle is one of them, and he grinds on my nerves with his ultra mood swings) would have liked to see differently with the beginning of B1G play. As it stands now.. Yes, we are 8th in the B1G standings.. but are only 2 games behind OSU. All we can respectably ask from Tubby's squad, IMO, is competitive games against the top 20 B1G teams (like against Illinois/Indiana) and beat the teams that we probably should (like NU/Iowa/Purdue/UNL).

respect the opinion but I have to believe that the hiring of a high profile coach that can command the type of salary he is paid the thought was that the program should be and rightfully so more than just a middling of the conference program.

 

[minngg]

Bob there is a difference between questioning Tubby and others saying he can't recruit and should be fired....such as what Minngg has been spewing in the Gopher hoop threads.

You are an idiot. Show me where I said he should be fired. I said he should not be extended. Stop lying.