Having a star QB ......

He has been recruited and preparing since his Sophomore year, he graduates in two years.
He missed a year in HS and had a short Sr year. The development he has gotten here is seriously lacking, and a look at the coaches doing it explains a lot.
 

Gophers would be so much better with a reliable passing QB, one in the 65 to 70% completion range. It would make the run game work without running the backs into the ground. It would add excitement to the game. Give up the long counts, too, get some momentum going, wake up the team and the fans. PJ has to have something new in an 18-team league with no divisions (what a dumb idea!) and there are 7 or 8 nationally ranked teams above him.
70% would mean a top-10 QB in that stat. B1G has three QBs above 65%. Half those in the top 28 are from G-5 schools. Yes, the passing game needs to evolve.
 

Mitch was a garbage runner. Stop thinking he was capable. Dude ran like a 5.0 40 at the combine. That is really bad. And it showed every time he ran against B1G teams - terrible YPC, and never successful in clutch situations.

Whatever about Athan. But it was really sad watching Leidner play each week.
From the Vikings web page regarding Leidner:

Among quarterbacks, his vertical jump (34.5 inches) and broad jump (10 feet, 3 inches) ranked second, his time in the 3-cone drill (6.96 seconds) ranked sixth, and his time in the 20-yard shuttle (4.25) tied for fourth.

He was a great athlete. 40 time not as important for a QB.
 

I am frustrated with the QB, the coach, the OC, The defensive secondary, and Sean Tyler. Mitch Leidner was a big durable body who could run with the O line well, but he was a shitty passer. Athan isnt showing me much with his legs, accuracy, and is even worse with quick decision making. PJ and Harbaugh drive me nuts with their bland, clock milking offense down the stretch. The secondary is blowing games with poor zone coverage. This has been a disappointing season and I am getting nervous about the shape of things to come. You can call the players young and inexperienced but PJ keeps on doing the same thing and expecting different results. FIRE ROB WENGER!!!
 

I really though Marquis Gray was going to someone special for us but he turned out to be mediocre.
 




Might need to cast a wider net to include QBs that you don't find at Fellowship Of Christian Athletes box socials.
What a ridiculous post. Are you familiar with Kirk Cousins and Tua Tagovailoa? Former QB’s Kurt Warner and Philip Rivers? You think Tim Tebo in college did okay? I’m sure I’m missing many others.
 

From the Vikings web page regarding Leidner:

Among quarterbacks, his vertical jump (34.5 inches) and broad jump (10 feet, 3 inches) ranked second, his time in the 3-cone drill (6.96 seconds) ranked sixth, and his time in the 20-yard shuttle (4.25) tied for fourth.

He was a great athlete. 40 time not as important for a QB.
I really liked Mitch Leidner. He was a tough kid and he used to run the QB draw like 20 times a game in an extremely boring and vanilla offense. He wasn't the best passer and was infuriating at times but eventually that comes down to coaching. He probably should have played LB or TE for us but he always gave 100 per cent, played hard and never quit. As a coach, if you aren't satisfied then you need to go out and either coach him up or recruit someone better. He was a warrior and worked extremely hard and I really wanted him to succeed.
 



I really liked Mitch Leidner. He was a tough kid and he used to run the QB draw like 20 times a game in an extremely boring and vanilla offense. He wasn't the best passer and was infuriating at times but eventually that comes down to coaching. He probably should have played LB or TE for us but he always gave 100 per cent, played hard and never quit. As a coach, if you aren't satisfied then you need to go out and either coach him up or recruit someone better. He was a warrior and worked extremely hard and I really wanted him to succeed.
Those pictures of his mangled foot was all I needed to see to know the guy gave it his all, all the time.
 
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Have you seen the movie "The Right Stuff?"

A reporter asks a NASA official about the recruiting of astronauts. "You mean you don't want the best pilots for astronauts?"

"We want the best pilots (pause) we can get."

So it is with QBs. Every school wants the best They Can Get. It's not just the FB program that a recruit considers. They likely also consider the university and the community in which it sits.
 

I really liked Mitch Leidner. He was a tough kid and he used to run the QB draw like 20 times a game in an extremely boring and vanilla offense. He wasn't the best passer and was infuriating at times but eventually that comes down to coaching. He probably should have played LB or TE for us but he always gave 100 per cent, played hard and never quit. As a coach, if you aren't satisfied then you need to go out and either coach him up or recruit someone better. He was a warrior and worked extremely hard and I really wanted him to succeed.
He sucked. He looks OK compared to 8, however.
 

Have you seen the movie "The Right Stuff?"

A reporter asks a NASA official about the recruiting of astronauts. "You mean you don't want the best pilots for astronauts?"

"We want the best pilots (pause) we can get."

So it is with QBs. Every school wants the best They Can Get. It's not just the FB program that a recruit considers. They likely also consider the university and the community in which it sits.
I'm a believer that as far as QBs go they're born... a bad coach / team can make them perform worse, or a little better ... but the ceiling is all about the QB from some mysterious source we haven't yet identified.
 




I'm a believer that as far as QBs go they're born... a bad coach / team can make them perform worse, or a little better ... but the ceiling is all about the QB from some mysterious source we haven't yet identified.
I don't think it's hard to find talented QBs. The difficulty is getting them to agree to come to the U of M and Minneapolis.
 

From the Vikings web page regarding Leidner:

Among quarterbacks, his vertical jump (34.5 inches) and broad jump (10 feet, 3 inches) ranked second, his time in the 3-cone drill (6.96 seconds) ranked sixth, and his time in the 20-yard shuttle (4.25) tied for fourth.

He was a great athlete. 40 time not as important for a QB.
His YPC against B1G teams was very bad and always came up short when it mattered. He was a garbage runner.
 

His YPC against B1G teams was very bad and always came up short when it mattered. He was a garbage runner.
You do realize that in college QB sacks subtract from a QB's rushing yards? Even with that, he had 1500 yards rushing and 33 rushing TDs. Pretty impressive stats. And that was all with his mangled foot. Kaliakmanis is 1.1 YPC less than Leidner.
 
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Here's the latest update on the 3 most talked-about QBs' stats. AK pretty similar to Leidner but more interceptions and slightly lower completion percentage (and 1.1 YPC less for rushing than Leidner).

ATTCOMPCOMP-%INTTDYDSYDS/ATTTD/ 100 ATTINT/100 ATTTD RUSHNCAA Pass Rtng
MORGAN106366162.18%32659,4698.96.13.08151.2
LEIDNER102958056.37%32367,2877.13.53.133121.2
KALIAKMANIS31617154.11%13112,2367.13.54.13116.8
 

You do realize that in college QB sacks subtract from a QB's rushing yards? Even with that, he had 1500 yards rushing and 33 rushing TDs. Pretty impressive stats. And that was all with his mangled foot. Kaliakmanis is 1.1 YPC less than Leidner.
I am not an advocate for AK. His numbers aren’t compelling. I watched the Mitch/Kill/Claeys era and the QB play was incredibly unimpressive. He carried the ball way too often for a poor runner. He had a lot of yards and TDs because they would have him carry it all the time, to the detriment of the team. It was also completely predictable, leading to important red zone drive-killers.

Mitch was slow.
 

Mitch was slow.
Compared to Lamar Jackson, sure. Compared to all NFL QBs though, he's quick. His cone and shuttle times at the NFL combine were 4th and 6th. His NFL combine "athleticism" score had him ranked 6th among QBs. So the facts say you are wrong.
 

Compared to Lamar Jackson, sure. Compared to all NFL QBs though, he's quick. His cone and shuttle times at the NFL combine were 4th and 6th. His NFL combine "athleticism" score had him ranked 6th among QBs. So the facts say you are wrong.
There were only 10-12 QBs that class that year that completed enough drills to get an “athleticism” score. So he was about avg for overall scoring.

And he is not “quick” relative to all NFL QBs.

Overall I would say I watched those teams and it was predictable and ineffective running. His longest career run, on all those carries over 4 years, was 33 yards, so he was caught pretty easily.

I don’t think we’ll agree on this but I would point to the current special teams (sans Kesich) as an analogy - you can find stats that say they are average but just watch and you can tell they are a garbage unit.

I think there is a lot of defense of Mitch because he tried hard and is a nice guy and that is admirable. I don’t agree that he was a good runner.
 

There were only 10-12 QBs that class that year that completed enough drills to get an “athleticism” score. So he was about avg for overall scoring.

And he is not “quick” relative to all NFL QBs.

Overall I would say I watched those teams and it was predictable and ineffective running. His longest career run, on all those carries over 4 years, was 33 yards, so he was caught pretty easily.

I don’t think we’ll agree on this but I would point to the current special teams (sans Kesich) as an analogy - you can find stats that say they are average but just watch and you can tell they are a garbage unit.

I think there is a lot of defense of Mitch because he tried hard and is a nice guy and that is admirable. I don’t agree that he was a good runner.
I guess we'll disagree then. I just went back and watched some Leidner highlight videos. He's a good (not great) runner. I wish AK could run like that.
 

I'll bite. Leidner level play would have won us 2 more games.

(I posted the below in another thread, but it did surprise me)
------
A comparison of Mitch and Athan through their first 14 games:

Mitch Leidner = (132/247) 53%, 2064 yds, 13 tds, 9 ints || 183 car, 815 yds, 15 tds
Athan Kaliakmanis = (171/316) 54%, 2236 yds, 13 tds, 11 ints || 57 car, 79yds, 2 tds

Mitch W-L (starts)
2013 = 2-2 (0-2)
2014 = 7-3 (5-2) (Iowa 51-14, @Michigan 30-14)

Athan W-L (starts)
2022 = 3-2 (2-1) (@Wisc 23-16)
2023 = 5-4 (3-3) (@ iowa 12-10)

Mitch's next two games (2014):
95 yds pass || 54 yds rush 2tds = @14Wisc. on game 17.
258 yds pass 2tds || -10 yds rush = 16Missouri at the Citrus Bowl.


Athan's next two games:
We'll find out?

Thoughts:
1 - I think the quality of opponents were about the same for both QBs. Mitch played tOSU and Michigan 2x during this span.
2 - Even by strictly passing stats, Mitch outplays Athan. If we include Mitch's rushing game, heh, ouch there is no comparison. Mitch was vastly better.
3 - These are just stats. I'm not saying that Athan's ceiling is low. He had a better game today but there were some huge mistakes. He's a college QB though, I get it. I'm hoping these are moments he learns from and becomes great. But so far, he's far worse than Leidner.
Leidner's toughness and WILL would be worth at least 1 more win (somehow). Tough SOB.
 

We need a qb who can throw a catchable ball to the numbers of a wide open tight end on a five yard curl route to extend a game ending drive.
Couldn't keep him on the roster longer after 7 years. :cool:
 


Best QB I can remember the Gophs having wass Ricky Foggie. Too young to remember Sandy Stephens. Holtz knew how to handle Foggie.
 

on the Gopher Gridiron Podcast, former Gopher OL Derek Burns had an interesting point. He said Athan tends to have the most success against Man defenses, and he struggles more against Zones.

According to Burns, that comes down to being able to read defenses and make quick decisions. against a Man defense, it's a simpler read. against a Zone, it's a more complicated read. Burns suspects that Athan is still having trouble processing certain defenses and that makes him more tentative. against a Man, he can just drop back and let 'er rip.

I have to say that Derek Burns is very good at breaking that type of stuff down and making it understandable. He also went through a fairly detailed breakdown of how Illinois changed its defensive schemes in the 2nd half to shut down the Gopher running game.
 

I guess we'll disagree then. I just went back and watched some Leidner highlight videos. He's a good (not great) runner. I wish AK could run like that.
AK is pretty fast and when he first got some time he ran decent. PJ is so far inside his head relative to sliding and making sure you don’t get hurt it’s f’d up his running ability. I don’t think a college quarterback should ever slide. It’s un American.
 

Best QB I can remember the Gophs having wass Ricky Foggie. Too young to remember Sandy Stephens. Holtz knew how to handle Foggie.
We had a bunch of good, not great quarterbacks. AAK and Cupito and Weber and Sauter…
 

Another thing: Athan looks slower running this year than last year, especially in the last few games.
 




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