Having a star QB ......

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PMWinSTP said:
High odds he would not be even a serviceable passer, so Gophs would see a lot of 8-man fronts, would be hard to get down more than 10 points and win, and would probably mean a whole lot of 6-6 seasons or worse.
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If he was a 1000 yard rusher I’odds are we would win a lot of teams as he’s beating those fronts 😎

In reality, a ton of this is the system we play. We throw 20 or so times a game with those numbers skewed by a Nebraska game we threw a ton. We have no passing that’s an extension of the running game because everything is built out of the gun and RPO heavy PA read look. Athan looks like a qb who’s built to play out of an under center look to me. He adds next to nothing running the read option lon other than it delays his time to read the defense, makes his feet happy and puts the ball lower as he’s carrying out the read. Whether his bad touch is all him or that we throw so damn few of those balls, both in practice or games, we’ll never know the full extent (it’s probably some of both), but when you only get 1-2 of those passes mostly in high leverage spots, it becomes tougher and more magnified. Our backs, arguably the strength of this team, have 17 catches on the season. Why there are no swing passes, middle angles or screens to them is just silly. Adding in that part of the game to get them in space makes AKs job easier. Unless they’ve decided he can’t hit those, in which case he should not be your qb
 

mngg11 said:
We need a qb who can throw a catchable ball to the numbers of a wide open tight end on a five yard curl route to extend a game ending drive.
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Sad face, but not because I disagree.
 

PMWinSTP said:
High odds he would not be even a serviceable passer, so Gophs would see a lot of 8-man fronts, would be hard to get down more than 10 points and win, and would probably mean a whole lot of 6-6 seasons or worse.
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I agree based on past recruiting, but why?

Minnesota is an above-average P5 program with one of the precious few seats at the table in one of the two top conferences moving forward. Even an okay Minnesota team playing boring conference games will be on national network TV regularly in the years ahead.

Can't we find some dude who can scare teams with his feet and also be an average (or above average!) passer? Seems like a lot of G5 teams can find him but the Gophers can't.
 

upnorthkid said:
If he was a 1000 yard rusher I’odds are we would win a lot of teams as he’s beating those fronts 😎

In reality, a ton of this is the system we play. We throw 20 or so times a game with those numbers skewed by a Nebraska game we threw a ton. We have no passing that’s an extension of the running game because everything is built out of the gun and RPO heavy PA read look. Athan looks like a qb who’s built to play out of an under center look to me. He adds next to nothing running the read option lon other than it delays his time to read the defense, makes his feet happy and puts the ball lower as he’s carrying out the read. Whether his bad touch is all him or that we throw so damn few of those balls, both in practice or games, we’ll never know the full extent (it’s probably some of both), but when you only get 1-2 of those passes mostly in high leverage spots, it becomes tougher and more magnified. Our backs, arguably the strength of this team, have 17 catches on the season. Why there are no swing passes, middle angles or screens to them is just silly. Adding in that part of the game to get them in space makes AKs job easier. Unless they’ve decided he can’t hit those, in which case he should not be your qb
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Well, they don't have coaches who have experience developing a succesful QB OR have been successful in those types of schemes. Fleck said with AK's tools we would see more passing. We have not. What we've seen is pretty much the same conservative approach. The guy was 7/9 for 130 and 2 TDs in the first half. They tried to play the field position game, ala Iowa, the second half on offense.
 


fmlizard said:
I agree based on past recruiting, but why?

Minnesota is an above-average P5 program with one of the precious few seats at the table in one of the two top conferences moving forward. Even an okay Minnesota team playing boring conference games will be on national network TV regularly in the years ahead.

Can't we find some dude who can scare teams with his feet and also be an average (or above average!) passer? Seems like a lot of G5 teams can find him but the Gophers can't.
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Can you name a few for reference?
 

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on a couple potential portal targets?
 

fmlizard said:
I agree based on past recruiting, but why?

Minnesota is an above-average P5 program with one of the precious few seats at the table in one of the two top conferences moving forward. Even an okay Minnesota team playing boring conference games will be on national network TV regularly in the years ahead.

Can't we find some dude who can scare teams with his feet and also be an average (or above average!) passer? Seems like a lot of G5 teams can find him but the Gophers can't.
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Exactly. There's gotta be a 2nd stringer sitting on an SEC bench that is better than AK, right? It boggles my mind that we can't recruit a good QB to come here with the guarantee of starting and playing in the BIG vs. sitting on the bench somewhere else. Maybe it's the climate, the perception that MN is run heavy, or other factors.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Can you name a few for reference?
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Grayson McCall probably would’ve been my portal target last year after this coach left and supposedly he will be portal bound this year after dealing with injuries
 



I don't understand how a QB with a 50% completion percentage in a game can get one of the high grades in the nation.

 

Panthadad2 said:
I don't understand how a QB with a 50% completion percentage in a game can get one of the high grades in the nation.

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I don’t know how they do their Milroe for Bama has a way better line than Daniels or ak. Aks QBR for the game is like 57 so it’s not that. He seems like a massive outlier on this list
 


upnorthkid said:
I don’t know how they do their Milroe for Bama has a way better line than Daniels or ak. Aks QBR for the game is like 57 so it’s not that. He seems like a massive outlier on this list
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All I can figure is he gets credit for the drops, playing while under a lot of pressure, and no turnovers. Here's the stats. I don't know what several of the categories mean.

1699301076314.png
 



Panthadad2 said:
I don't understand how a QB with a 50% completion percentage in a game can get one of the high grades in the nation.

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They take into account the pass blocking, how open receivers are, etc.

Two of the touchdown passes that AK threw, the players were blanketed. Our players are generally covered. In the second half, they sent more people, and the first round defensive lineman was unleashed for Illinois.

We couldn't run, pass block or get open. AK did miss on a couple of throws though, that were ridiculous.
 


GopherJack said:
Exactly. There's gotta be a 2nd stringer sitting on an SEC bench that is better than AK, right? It boggles my mind that we can't recruit a good QB to come here with the guarantee of starting and playing in the BIG vs. sitting on the bench somewhere else. Maybe it's the climate, the perception that MN is run heavy, or other factors.
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Where's our Russell Wilson? He knew that he was going to a run heavy school in Wisconsin and he still committed and brought a lot to the table for them in a very successful season in 2011
 

PMWinSTP said:
See posts #5 and #7.
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I count three losses that are mostly due to hurry up pass coverage being, apparently, impossible.

But the title of the thread is "Having a star QB". This isn't discussing who is mostly to blame for the losses (cough: pass defense). The discussion is about Minnesota's QB play thus far vs other programs that are clearly doing QB better. Athan played statistically well last game. I'll give him that. But that was against a garbage Illinois team that gave up 44 to Purdue and might not win another game.
 

kisarazu said:
I'll bite. Leidner level play would have won us 2 more games.

(I posted the below in another thread, but it did surprise me)
------
A comparison of Mitch and Athan through their first 14 games:

Mitch Leidner = (132/247) 53%, 2064 yds, 13 tds, 9 ints || 183 car, 815 yds, 15 tds
Athan Kaliakmanis = (171/316) 54%, 2236 yds, 13 tds, 11 ints || 57 car, 79yds, 2 tds

Mitch W-L (starts)
2013 = 2-2 (0-2)
2014 = 7-3 (5-2) (Iowa 51-14, @Michigan 30-14)

Athan W-L (starts)
2022 = 3-2 (2-1) (@Wisc 23-16)
2023 = 5-4 (3-3) (@ iowa 12-10)

Mitch's next two games (2014):
95 yds pass || 54 yds rush 2tds = @14Wisc. on game 17.
258 yds pass 2tds || -10 yds rush = 16Missouri at the Citrus Bowl.


Athan's next two games:
We'll find out?

Thoughts:
1 - I think the quality of opponents were about the same for both QBs. Mitch played tOSU and Michigan 2x during this span.
2 - Even by strictly passing stats, Mitch outplays Athan. If we include Mitch's rushing game, heh, ouch there is no comparison. Mitch was vastly better.
3 - These are just stats. I'm not saying that Athan's ceiling is low. He had a better game today but there were some huge mistakes. He's a college QB though, I get it. I'm hoping these are moments he learns from and becomes great. But so far, he's far worse than Leidner.
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Mitch was a garbage runner. Stop thinking he was capable. Dude ran like a 5.0 40 at the combine. That is really bad. And it showed every time he ran against B1G teams - terrible YPC, and never successful in clutch situations.

Whatever about Athan. But it was really sad watching Leidner play each week.
 

Think it works something like this: when you’re a 3 or 4* high school prospect, you’re usually on a high school team with comparable talent to the teams you play and/or you yourself are just such a better athlete than everyone else on the field you can do whatever you want. You then just have to perform well at the elite camps, to get the offers.

But then you come play here … and you no longer have equivalent talent to some of the higher end teams we face.

It’s tough to do those things you did in high school or in the camps, when you have Big Ten DL about to smash you. Or we can’t run the ball. Or our receivers can’t get open.
 

I honestly think AK could be a star QB for us, he's just not getting the resources he needs.

Some of it is the play calling. I don't think it completely lines up with his strengths, and it doesn't allow him to get into a good grove.

Some of it is the QB coaching. I don't think he's getting the coaching he needs as a QB to 1. Help him develop some touch on those short, fast developing pass plays (you can throw a quick pass without it being a laser that bounces of the receiver's hands), 2. Help him develop more awareness of when to scramble, and where (many times this year I think he's waited a beat too long to start scrambling, and also made the wrong decisions when trying to juke a defender), and 3. Help him develop mentally (going through his reads faster, not lock onto one receiver, learn to deceive the defenders down field).

Some of it is the consistency of the players around him. He's thrown some really good passes that were almost perfectly placed and timed, and they were just dropped.

With the right OC/QB coach, even with everything else the same, I think Athan could be playing MUCH better than he is right now.
 

SamSquatch said:
Mitch was a garbage runner. Stop thinking he was capable. Dude ran like a 5.0 40 at the combine. That is really bad. And it showed every time he ran against B1G teams - terrible YPC, and never successful in clutch situations.

Whatever about Athan. But it was really sad watching Leidner play each week.
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I never said Mitch was a great QB or clutch. His stats through 14 games were much better though. I'm not saying that Athan won't get any better. But there has been a problem, right? I just don't know where it is between Athan's ceiling to Minnesota's coaching.
 

Taji34 said:
I honestly think AK could be a star QB for us, he's just not getting the resources he needs.

Some of it is the play calling. I don't think it completely lines up with his strengths, and it doesn't allow him to get into a good grove.

Some of it is the QB coaching. I don't think he's getting the coaching he needs as a QB to 1. Help him develop some touch on those short, fast developing pass plays (you can throw a quick pass without it being a laser that bounces of the receiver's hands), 2. Help him develop more awareness of when to scramble, and where (many times this year I think he's waited a beat too long to start scrambling, and also made the wrong decisions when trying to juke a defender), and 3. Help him develop mentally (going through his reads faster, not lock onto one receiver, learn to deceive the defenders down field).

Some of it is the consistency of the players around him. He's thrown some really good passes that were almost perfectly placed and timed, and they were just dropped.

With the right OC/QB coach, even with everything else the same, I think Athan could be playing MUCH better than he is right now.
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He has been recruited and preparing since his Sophomore year, he graduates in two years.
 

Texan Gopher said:
Some here know me and that I am from MN/SD, but have lived in Cali, Illinois, and New Jersey before moving to Texas 12 years ago.

My wife and I are Texans season ticket holders. What CJ Stroud is doing is making me realize what a true star QB can do for a team.

If, if the Gophers can have their "Drew Brees" or their "Russell Wilson" etc just for a few years, it will be the high point of our fandom.

It is finally occuring to me what a star QB can do for the chemistry, culture, and the simple fun level.and belief level in the fans.

I am anxiously awaiting the day where my fellow Gopher fans can feel what that is like.

Damn is it fun to watch your team play when they have a special.talent at the QB position.
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Gophers have a long history of mediocre QBs, especially as passers.
 

Gophers would be so much better with a reliable passing QB, one in the 65 to 70% completion range. It would make the run game work without running the backs into the ground. It would add excitement to the game. Give up the long counts, too, get some momentum going, wake up the team and the fans. PJ has to have something new in an 18-team league with no divisions (what a dumb idea!) and there are 7 or 8 nationally ranked teams above him.
 

Unfortunately, in today's college FB landscape, there are two ways to get a Star QB.

1. get lucky and find some kid early before he breaks out - and get him to keep his commitment.

2. buy one.

every school in the country is looking for a star QB and a lot of them can offer more than MN - in terms of NIL $$, and offer in terms of a chance to win a Conference title, make the playoffs and get featured on big national TV games.

so schools like MN wind up shopping in the 3* aisle and hope to find a diamond in the rough.

my 2-cents - in recruiting a QB, I would put a premium on accuracy. the strongest arm in the world doesn't mean squat if you can't put the ball where it needs to be. pocket presence is another plus. just taking that one step up or sideways to create a passing lane can make a huge difference.

maybe the kid from Arkansas will pan out. I would still like to see MN find a grad transfer in the Portal.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Gophers would be so much better with a reliable passing QB, one in the 65 to 70% completion range. It would make the run game work without running the backs into the ground. It would add excitement to the game. Give up the long counts, too, get some momentum going, wake up the team and the fans. PJ has to have something new in an 18-team league with no divisions (what a dumb idea!) and there are 7 or 8 nationally ranked teams above him.
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The Gophers had that QB. Morgan. Two seasons over 65%.
 


Terrible second half by AK #8, The touchdown in the first half was...well the throw was late!.. PJ stuck with a quarterback for 6 years, that means little to no growth behind him. AK is a mid-major quarterback at best. He throws a fastball all the time and has no touch to his game. He cannot hit his second read at all, which wouldn't be a problem if he was a threat to run...which he isn't!

I am just being real! I am not complaining, but most other areas PJ has done a good job, but quarterback he has not.
 

kisarazu said:
I count three losses that are mostly due to hurry up pass coverage being, apparently, impossible.

But the title of the thread is "Having a star QB". This isn't discussing who is mostly to blame for the losses (cough: pass defense). The discussion is about Minnesota's QB play thus far vs other programs that are clearly doing QB better. Athan played statistically well last game. I'll give him that. But that was against a garbage Illinois team that gave up 44 to Purdue and might not win another game.
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My response was directly to the part I put in bold from your post.
 

TD12 said:
Terrible second half by AK #8, The touchdown in the first half was...well the throw was late!.. PJ stuck with a quarterback for 6 years, that means little to no growth behind him. AK is a mid-major quarterback at best. He throws a fastball all the time and has no touch to his game. He cannot hit his second read at all, which wouldn't be a problem if he was a threat to run...which he isn't!

I am just being real! I am not complaining, but most other areas PJ has done a good job, but quarterback he has not.
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I know it’s easy to say from the stand but everybody I swear everyone in my section yelled: “He’s open!!” on that touchdown pass..
 

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