Has this recruiting cycle for Coach Fleck been successful thus far?

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Jeremyp

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The reason I love reading message boards is the varying opinions of the same event. In the past few days, some posters are wildly happy about the Class of 2023 recruiting thus far, while others are skeptical and feel that it is sub par. Here are a few issues/question:
1. Lower ranked recruits committing and the Gophers accepting them and not holding spots for higher ranked recruits. The players who committed just prior to or after Summer Splash are usually ranked lower than other possibilities. Since there are only 18-24 spots probably open on the committed list, the thought is not to accept commitments from lower ranked guys. Viotto, the QB is not very highly rated. We accepted MN TE commit Peters, who is not even ranked by some, when we have a .8700 or so high 3 star Orwerth still considering the Gophers. We accepted Mister who is a pretty low.8300 when higher 3 and 4 star players are available. The TX linebacker who is not as highly ranked as the CA LB who is visiting next week. What if the WR Hayes wants to commit? Brown, Manning and Cooley are all more highly ranked. What about Menz and T Williams as DE when Ashley Williams and Howard are still considering us. Martin Owusu over Davis and Gadson who are both ranked higher. T. Brown, a CB who is visiting next week and not highly ranked who might want to commit before the highly ranked Moss and Fleming decide. There are only at most 10 spots left and most of the big dogs considering us won’t be ready to commit until late June at the earliest.

2. Star rankings—I think most of us agree that getting more 4 and 5 stars is better than all 3 stars but the difference in an .8658 and a .8345 is really nothing. PJ tries to identify prospects before they blow up and sign them early. Morgan, CRab, Schmitz,and Sori Marin are all players who were lower ranked and did just fine. I do not think he cares at all about stars and though signing the higher ranked guys like Howard, A. Williams, Moss, A. Brown, Newsom, Fleming, M. Williams, Chambliss, would improve our rankings, and our team, signing Peters, Mister, McCutchin like Kieft, Early, Ibrahim,etc. before has worked out pretty well. Plus, Fleck gets the benefit of the doubt with some players and their rankings improve later.
3. Filling up his classes way too early—This is intentional. PJs culture is way different from most Power 5 teams. I think either recruits really like him and the staff thinks the kid is a fit or they really don’t connect with Fleck or the culture. When he finds a guy who fits, he jumps on them right away. Early commits, even if they blow up like Bateman, rarely change their mind. If someone doesn’t commit quickly after a visit, they usually don’t commit. We don’t win a lot of drawn out recruiting battles. If his goal is 18 recruits, and he is at 18 with Howard, Moss and M Williams still deciding, he should be able to find spots for them in today’s world. D Heystert from Marshall liked MN, but did not connect with Fleck or the culture and went to Iowa State. Fleck was not going to wait for a guy who he and the kid know did not fit. He found a lineman who did fit, even if they ranked lower.

4. Signing home state kids—Peters and Elliott especially are not highly ranked. However, I agree with some posters that those kids are more likely to be patient and develop in this portal world. Signing a guy from Mississippi who is highly ranked, but might have to wait, is a recipe for transfer. Bucky Irving, a highly ranked RB, who loved MN left due to possible playing time and as a big recruit, had numerous options to transfer. With the portal, the recruiting world is changed. You can make a few mistakes or sign a project and you would still have the portal to fill in gaps if things did not work out.

i am pretty happy with this Class so far. With 5-10 commits left, I will be:
Elated if they get 5 of these players: Howard, M. Williams, A. Williams, Moss, Fleming, A. Brown, Ortwerth, Cooley, Gadson, Davis, Newsome.
Satisfied if they get 3 of them
Disappointed if only 1 to 2 unless one of them is Howard.
I believe Daniel (iol), Menz (DE), Manning (WR) and I hope MossCB will commit within a week for a total of 17 commits. That should leave about 5 openings for a RB, WR, DT, 2 DE, and a LB. that is 6.
 

Jeremyp said:
The reason I love reading message boards is the varying opinions of the same event. In the past few days, some posters are wildly happy about the Class of 2023 recruiting thus far, while others are skeptical and feel that it is sub par. Here are a few issues/question:
1. Lower ranked recruits committing and the Gophers accepting them and not holding spots for higher ranked recruits. The players who committed just prior to or after Summer Splash are usually ranked lower than other possibilities. Since there are only 18-24 spots probably open on the committed list, the thought is not to accept commitments from lower ranked guys. Viotto, the QB is not very highly rated. We accepted MN TE commit Peters, who is not even ranked by some, when we have a .8700 or so high 3 star Orwerth still considering the Gophers. We accepted Mister who is a pretty low.8300 when higher 3 and 4 star players are available. The TX linebacker who is not as highly ranked as the CA LB who is visiting next week. What if the WR Hayes wants to commit? Brown, Manning and Cooley are all more highly ranked. What about Menz and T Williams as DE when Ashley Williams and Howard are still considering us. Martin Owusu over Davis and Gadson who are both ranked higher. T. Brown, a CB who is visiting next week and not highly ranked who might want to commit before the highly ranked Moss and Fleming decide. There are only at most 10 spots left and most of the big dogs considering us won’t be ready to commit until late June at the earliest.

2. Star rankings—I think most of us agree that getting more 4 and 5 stars is better than all 3 stars but the difference in an .8658 and a .8345 is really nothing. PJ tries to identify prospects before they blow up and sign them early. Morgan, CRab, Schmitz,and Sori Marin are all players who were lower ranked and did just fine. I do not think he cares at all about stars and though signing the higher ranked guys like Howard, A. Williams, Moss, A. Brown, Newsom, Fleming, M. Williams, Chambliss, would improve our rankings, and our team, signing Peters, Mister, McCutchin like Kieft, Early, Ibrahim,etc. before has worked out pretty well. Plus, Fleck gets the benefit of the doubt with some players and their rankings improve later.
3. Filling up his classes way too early—This is intentional. PJs culture is way different from most Power 5 teams. I think either recruits really like him and the staff thinks the kid is a fit or they really don’t connect with Fleck or the culture. When he finds a guy who fits, he jumps on them right away. Early commits, even if they blow up like Bateman, rarely change their mind. If someone doesn’t commit quickly after a visit, they usually don’t commit. We don’t win a lot of drawn out recruiting battles. If his goal is 18 recruits, and he is at 18 with Howard, Moss and M Williams still deciding, he should be able to find spots for them in today’s world. D Heystert from Marshall liked MN, but did not connect with Fleck or the culture and went to Iowa State. Fleck was not going to wait for a guy who he and the kid know did not fit. He found a lineman who did fit, even if they ranked lower.

4. Signing home state kids—Peters and Elliott especially are not highly ranked. However, I agree with some posters that those kids are more likely to be patient and develop in this portal world. Signing a guy from Mississippi who is highly ranked, but might have to wait, is a recipe for transfer. Bucky Irving, a highly ranked RB, who loved MN left due to possible playing time and as a big recruit, had numerous options to transfer. With the portal, the recruiting world is changed. You can make a few mistakes or sign a project and you would still have the portal to fill in gaps if things did not work out.

i am pretty happy with this Class so far. With 5-10 commits left, I will be:
Elated if they get 5 of these players: Howard, M. Williams, A. Williams, Moss, Fleming, A. Brown, Ortwerth, Cooley, Gadson, Davis, Newsome.
Satisfied if they get 3 of them
Disappointed if only 1 to 2 unless one of them is Howard.
I believe Daniel (iol), Menz (DE), Manning (WR) and I hope MossCB will commit within a week for a total of 17 commits. That should leave about 5 openings for a RB, WR, DT, 2 DE, and a LB. that is 6.
Click to expand...
He left for $$$$
 





I do like Ortwerth, but when I watch his highlights compared to Sam Peters, despite one being rated way higher, I have a very difficult time identifying one as vastly better than the other.
 

btowngopher said:
I do like Ortwerth, but when I watch his highlights compared to Sam Peters, despite one being rated way higher, I have a very difficult time identifying one as vastly better than the other.
Click to expand...
Exactly, but for some, they would be much happier with Orwerth, whom I also really like
 

I may be wrong on this but do we not have more scholarships than normal available right now with all of the players in the transfer portal? That may be why we are seeing them offer more at this point. The transfer portal and NIL changes EVERYTHING with recruiting and we are in unchartered territory with how this class will play out. I trust Fleck and co have a plan.
 




Jeremyp said:
The reason I love reading message boards is the varying opinions of the same event. In the past few days, some posters are wildly happy about the Class of 2023 recruiting thus far, while others are skeptical and feel that it is sub par. Here are a few issues/question:
1. Lower ranked recruits committing and the Gophers accepting them and not holding spots for higher ranked recruits. The players who committed just prior to or after Summer Splash are usually ranked lower than other possibilities. Since there are only 18-24 spots probably open on the committed list, the thought is not to accept commitments from lower ranked guys. Viotto, the QB is not very highly rated. We accepted MN TE commit Peters, who is not even ranked by some, when we have a .8700 or so high 3 star Orwerth still considering the Gophers. We accepted Mister who is a pretty low.8300 when higher 3 and 4 star players are available. The TX linebacker who is not as highly ranked as the CA LB who is visiting next week. What if the WR Hayes wants to commit? Brown, Manning and Cooley are all more highly ranked. What about Menz and T Williams as DE when Ashley Williams and Howard are still considering us. Martin Owusu over Davis and Gadson who are both ranked higher. T. Brown, a CB who is visiting next week and not highly ranked who might want to commit before the highly ranked Moss and Fleming decide. There are only at most 10 spots left and most of the big dogs considering us won’t be ready to commit until late June at the earliest.

2. Star rankings—I think most of us agree that getting more 4 and 5 stars is better than all 3 stars but the difference in an .8658 and a .8345 is really nothing. PJ tries to identify prospects before they blow up and sign them early. Morgan, CRab, Schmitz,and Sori Marin are all players who were lower ranked and did just fine. I do not think he cares at all about stars and though signing the higher ranked guys like Howard, A. Williams, Moss, A. Brown, Newsom, Fleming, M. Williams, Chambliss, would improve our rankings, and our team, signing Peters, Mister, McCutchin like Kieft, Early, Ibrahim,etc. before has worked out pretty well. Plus, Fleck gets the benefit of the doubt with some players and their rankings improve later.
3. Filling up his classes way too early—This is intentional. PJs culture is way different from most Power 5 teams. I think either recruits really like him and the staff thinks the kid is a fit or they really don’t connect with Fleck or the culture. When he finds a guy who fits, he jumps on them right away. Early commits, even if they blow up like Bateman, rarely change their mind. If someone doesn’t commit quickly after a visit, they usually don’t commit. We don’t win a lot of drawn out recruiting battles. If his goal is 18 recruits, and he is at 18 with Howard, Moss and M Williams still deciding, he should be able to find spots for them in today’s world. D Heystert from Marshall liked MN, but did not connect with Fleck or the culture and went to Iowa State. Fleck was not going to wait for a guy who he and the kid know did not fit. He found a lineman who did fit, even if they ranked lower.

4. Signing home state kids—Peters and Elliott especially are not highly ranked. However, I agree with some posters that those kids are more likely to be patient and develop in this portal world. Signing a guy from Mississippi who is highly ranked, but might have to wait, is a recipe for transfer. Bucky Irving, a highly ranked RB, who loved MN left due to possible playing time and as a big recruit, had numerous options to transfer. With the portal, the recruiting world is changed. You can make a few mistakes or sign a project and you would still have the portal to fill in gaps if things did not work out.

i am pretty happy with this Class so far. With 5-10 commits left, I will be:
Elated if they get 5 of these players: Howard, M. Williams, A. Williams, Moss, Fleming, A. Brown, Ortwerth, Cooley, Gadson, Davis, Newsome.
Satisfied if they get 3 of them
Disappointed if only 1 to 2 unless one of them is Howard.
I believe Daniel (iol), Menz (DE), Manning (WR) and I hope MossCB will commit within a week for a total of 17 commits. That should leave about 5 openings for a RB, WR, DT, 2 DE, and a LB. that is 6.
Click to expand...
I surmise that recruiting is a lot trickier with NIL money involved. Is there more hesitancy to commit because of NIL if you are a higher-ranked player?

The Gophers offered unranked and three-star players that they have evaluated. They rely heavily on their player evaluations for reasons you have stated. These developmental players will contribute in a couple of years like Boye Mafe and others.

If you are one of these players, you commit quickly if D1 Minnesota offers. For in-state players, this is a dream come true. As you have said, these players most likely will stay longer.

The Offensive Linemen are players behind the likes of Quinn Carroll. These players take a long time to develop. Some of them may be surprises and start sooner.

The high 3-Star and 4-Star players have a lot more options. They will weigh the other options. Except for Jaxon Howard, they know PJ Fleck won't wait too long to fill his class.
 


If you choose to judge recruiting classes based on the rankings, there's really no need to ask if a recruiting cycle has been successful or not. Just count the stars, and do the math... you'll answer your own question.

For me, I'll know if the recruiting class is good when I see the kids play in maroon and gold.

We can also review the college careers of recent Gopher standout players (Winfield, Tyler Johnson, Mo Ibrahim, etc.), comparing their actual career accomplishments as Gophers to their rankings coming out of high school. That's a good way to judge whether rankings are accurate.
 

RememberMurray said:
If you choose to judge recruiting classes based on the rankings, there's really no need to ask if a recruiting cycle has been successful or not. Just count the stars, and do the math... you'll answer your own question.

For me, I'll know if the recruiting class is good when I see the kids play in maroon and gold.

We can also review the college careers of recent Gopher standout players (Winfield, Tyler Johnson, Mo Ibrahim, etc.), comparing their actual career accomplishments as Gophers to their rankings coming out of high school. That's a good way to judge whether rankings are accurate.
Click to expand...
It is no accident that the Gophers knocked off the Penn State Nittany Lions and Auburn Tigers loaded with four and five-star players.

Kudos to the Gophers' talent evaluation and landing key players like Rashod Bateman and Daniel Faalele.

You have to give credit to the Gopher system.
 



Has this recruiting cycle for Coach Fleck been successful thus far?​


Very
 

The Gophers are #12 in recruiting after Kerry Brown and Karter Menz committed.
 



Jeremyp said:
The reason I love reading message boards is the varying opinions of the same event. In the past few days, some posters are wildly happy about the Class of 2023 recruiting thus far, while others are skeptical and feel that it is sub par. Here are a few issues/question:
1. Lower ranked recruits committing and the Gophers accepting them and not holding spots for higher ranked recruits. The players who committed just prior to or after Summer Splash are usually ranked lower than other possibilities. Since there are only 18-24 spots probably open on the committed list, the thought is not to accept commitments from lower ranked guys. Viotto, the QB is not very highly rated. We accepted MN TE commit Peters, who is not even ranked by some, when we have a .8700 or so high 3 star Orwerth still considering the Gophers. We accepted Mister who is a pretty low.8300 when higher 3 and 4 star players are available. The TX linebacker who is not as highly ranked as the CA LB who is visiting next week. What if the WR Hayes wants to commit? Brown, Manning and Cooley are all more highly ranked. What about Menz and T Williams as DE when Ashley Williams and Howard are still considering us. Martin Owusu over Davis and Gadson who are both ranked higher. T. Brown, a CB who is visiting next week and not highly ranked who might want to commit before the highly ranked Moss and Fleming decide. There are only at most 10 spots left and most of the big dogs considering us won’t be ready to commit until late June at the earliest.

2. Star rankings—I think most of us agree that getting more 4 and 5 stars is better than all 3 stars but the difference in an .8658 and a .8345 is really nothing. PJ tries to identify prospects before they blow up and sign them early. Morgan, CRab, Schmitz,and Sori Marin are all players who were lower ranked and did just fine. I do not think he cares at all about stars and though signing the higher ranked guys like Howard, A. Williams, Moss, A. Brown, Newsom, Fleming, M. Williams, Chambliss, would improve our rankings, and our team, signing Peters, Mister, McCutchin like Kieft, Early, Ibrahim,etc. before has worked out pretty well. Plus, Fleck gets the benefit of the doubt with some players and their rankings improve later.
3. Filling up his classes way too early—This is intentional. PJs culture is way different from most Power 5 teams. I think either recruits really like him and the staff thinks the kid is a fit or they really don’t connect with Fleck or the culture. When he finds a guy who fits, he jumps on them right away. Early commits, even if they blow up like Bateman, rarely change their mind. If someone doesn’t commit quickly after a visit, they usually don’t commit. We don’t win a lot of drawn out recruiting battles. If his goal is 18 recruits, and he is at 18 with Howard, Moss and M Williams still deciding, he should be able to find spots for them in today’s world. D Heystert from Marshall liked MN, but did not connect with Fleck or the culture and went to Iowa State. Fleck was not going to wait for a guy who he and the kid know did not fit. He found a lineman who did fit, even if they ranked lower.

4. Signing home state kids—Peters and Elliott especially are not highly ranked. However, I agree with some posters that those kids are more likely to be patient and develop in this portal world. Signing a guy from Mississippi who is highly ranked, but might have to wait, is a recipe for transfer. Bucky Irving, a highly ranked RB, who loved MN left due to possible playing time and as a big recruit, had numerous options to transfer. With the portal, the recruiting world is changed. You can make a few mistakes or sign a project and you would still have the portal to fill in gaps if things did not work out.

i am pretty happy with this Class so far. With 5-10 commits left, I will be:
Elated if they get 5 of these players: Howard, M. Williams, A. Williams, Moss, Fleming, A. Brown, Ortwerth, Cooley, Gadson, Davis, Newsome.
Satisfied if they get 3 of them
Disappointed if only 1 to 2 unless one of them is Howard.
I believe Daniel (iol), Menz (DE), Manning (WR) and I hope MossCB will commit within a week for a total of 17 commits. That should leave about 5 openings for a RB, WR, DT, 2 DE, and a LB. that is 6.
Click to expand...
The idea that Fleck is looking at rating numbers from recruiting services while evaluating a football player is comical. Any smart rating service would be well served to wait until Fleck offers a guy before giving him a ranking.

If the kid is good enough to get an offer from Minnesota and he accepts, that's cause for joy, not handwringing.
 

RememberMurray said:
If you choose to judge recruiting classes based on the rankings, there's really no need to ask if a recruiting cycle has been successful or not. Just count the stars, and do the math... you'll answer your own question.

For me, I'll know if the recruiting class is good when I see the kids play in maroon and gold.

We can also review the college careers of recent Gopher standout players (Winfield, Tyler Johnson, Mo Ibrahim, etc.), comparing their actual career accomplishments as Gophers to their rankings coming out of high school. That's a good way to judge whether rankings are accurate.
Click to expand...

You also need to factor in that some players improve more than others once they get into a college program,as they put in more effort in improving their game and maybe had a higher ceiling than others, and are receiving much better coaching and lifting and nutrition programs than they were in HS - lots of factors.

Recruiting rankings are also subjective - what would Decker had been ranked if he went to HS in Eden Prairie vs. Rocori?
 
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Dakota2 said:
The idea that Fleck is looking at rating numbers from recruiting services while evaluating a football player is comical. Any smart rating service would be well served to wait until Fleck offers a guy before giving him a ranking.

If the kid is good enough to get an offer from Minnesota and he accepts, that's cause for joy, not handwringing.
Click to expand...
Yep, recruiting rankings are for the fans. Results on the field will tell you if our recruiting is going well....and a 13-5 conference record in the last two full regular seasons tells me the coaches know what they are looking for and are doing a good job finding the guys they need to run their systems.
 

Have you noticed that many of the ratings are already going up? Wait until signing day to see where they end up. Many of you are complaining way to early.
 

Look at the 247 ratings now. All but 2 are over 8500. Wow! Greg Johnson made a huge jump in his rating! Now only behind Jerome Williams.
 

They must have made a mistake on Greg Johnson. He’s now down to 8644.
 


I am a wet blanket smothering the firey ardor of the recruitniks.
I wait to see what each year's conference W/L record is before I pass judgment on recruiting, development, and coaching.
 


With Fleck's current success of getting players developed and drafted into the NFL, I think it is appropriate to believe that 3 - 6 four star recruits should be coming here on a yearly basis. While our culture will turn some away there should be at least a few top recruits that feel it is a perfect fit and/or recruits like Bateman who we get early on who turn into four star recruits. I am not worried right now and feel our lack of 4 and 5 stars has more to do with NIL than coaching.
 

gophernut1 said:
With Fleck's current success of getting players developed and drafted into the NFL, I think it is appropriate to believe that 3 - 6 four star recruits should be coming here on a yearly basis. While our culture will turn some away there should be at least a few top recruits that feel it is a perfect fit and/or recruits like Bateman who we get early on who turn into four star recruits. I am not worried right now and feel our lack of 4 and 5 stars has more to do with NIL than coaching.
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It's NIL, it's geographic location. There are no 5 stars coming out of Minnesota, some years there are no 4 stars either. It will be interesting to see if the free transfer rule will make it easier to get kids from further away to give Minnesota a chance.
 

I would say yes. It’s all about building depth and following the model of our neighbor that shall not be named to the east. Find players that can develop into those stars and stock up on depth behind them in case of injury or transfer while getting those 4 and 5 star players where you can.
 

Once a player's been ranked, how often does their ranking go down? I've seen them go up but I don't remember seeing them go down.
 

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