Has this recruiting cycle for Coach Fleck been successful thus far?

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I am a MN homer, so I am biased but I really like this class. I knew PJ would adapt his recruiting to the portal and NIL. He doesn't seem to be a guy who gets bogged down too much in things like "we've always done it this way". I do think the makeup of this class is a little different than it would have been in other years. But college football has changed.

I think the "close calls" in recruiting are erring towards guys who we think are less likely to bolt. We also are probably not hinting/promising as much PT as in the past because you never know. So you need players and situations that you think can adjust to that.

All of that said, I really like the class. Even the unranked/low ranked guys are people who I think will help us. I don't see anything in Peters highlights that makes me think he is a step below any of our higher ranked targets. I think the kid from Hutchinson is impressive (big, fast and can tackle).

It'll be interesting to see what this class looks like 2-3 years from now in terms of attrition.
 


GVLCGopherFan said:
Once a player's been ranked, how often does their ranking go down? I've seen them go up but I don't remember seeing them go down.
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If you go to the player profile on 247, there's a history link by their rating and you can see all the adjustments. Downward adjustments do happen. Howard for example, his composite initially was .97xx and is now .95xx
 

I've never felt I was capable of summing up a recruiting class with any level of certainty.

I just hope for the best.
 




here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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Why do you believe this? Unless you think our coaching/development/culture is inferior to these guys I don't see why this is necessarily true.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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Your points make sense, but there's a few issues. One being that not all 3* are created equal. There is a big difference between a guy who is a 3* bordering on 4, and a guy who is a 3* bordering on 2. Also, I think the reality of the transfer rules makes it a little difficult to compare recruiting in 2022 to recruiting in 2013 for instance. Whether that works in our favor or not I don't know, but I'm not sure it's a total apples to apples comparison. Pinckney, St. Juste, Williamson, Gibbens are just a few guys off the top of my head that have made huge impacts despite not being recruited here out of high school. I'm not sure Kill/Mason/Brew had that many impact transfers because of the greater restrictions in their time.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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The gap has already been closed. Not sure we have more or better talent than Iowa or Wisconsin, but is it clear they have more and better talent than us?
 

btowngopher said:
The gap has already been closed. Not sure we have more or better talent than Iowa or Wisconsin, but is it clear they have more and better talent than us?
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agreed, I don't watch WI/IA and say they just have better players

that used to be the case
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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Minnesota can definitely recruit at the same level as Wisconsin and Iowa and beat them. We have a better coaching staff and over-achiever culture. We are already beating BECKY when they had higher ranked classes.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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Kill/Mason recruited guys who often had to pick between us or the MAC. For the most part Fleck is recruiting guys that have to pick between us and another power 5/Big Ten school.

Disagree 1000% with the take about what MN needs to do to compete with or beat WI or IA on a regular basis. We don't have to out recruit them we just have to be on par with them (which we have been in recent years). We are holding our own with them just fine on the field and while we haven't beaten Iowa it isn't like they are destroying us with their superior talent.

The talent gap between MN and Iowa and Wisconsin has absolutely closed. There is a talent gap between MN and schools like Ohio State and Michigan, and unfortunately there probably always will be due to factors that are beyond our control.
 



MNVCGUY said:
Kill/Mason recruited guys who often had to pick between us or the MAC. For the most part Fleck is recruiting guys that have to pick between us and another power 5/Big Ten school.

Disagree 1000% with the take about what MN needs to do to compete with or beat WI or IA on a regular basis. We don't have to out recruit them we just have to be on par with them (which we have been in recent years). We are holding our own with them just fine on the field and while we haven't beaten Iowa it isn't like they are destroying us with their superior talent.

The talent gap between MN and Iowa and Wisconsin has absolutely closed. There is a talent gap between MN and schools like Ohio State and Michigan, and unfortunately there probably always will be due to factors that are beyond our control.
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Heck, there's even a sizable talent gap between Ohio State and Michigan.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Your points make sense, but there's a few issues. One being that not all 3* are created equal. There is a big difference between a guy who is a 3* bordering on 4, and a guy who is a 3* bordering on 2. Also, I think the reality of the transfer rules makes it a little difficult to compare recruiting in 2022 to recruiting in 2013 for instance. Whether that works in our favor or not I don't know, but I'm not sure it's a total apples to apples comparison. Pinckney, St. Juste, Williamson, Gibbens are just a few guys off the top of my head that have made huge impacts despite not being recruited here out of high school. I'm not sure Kill/Mason/Brew had that many impact transfers because of the greater restrictions in their time.
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Hmmm, not what others are stating while defending that we are not seeing more 4*. They are saying the opposite...that the talent gap between them is mostly insignificant. Just sayin'...
 

HS ranking, based on imperfect knowledge, are decent but not determinative indicators—especially for OL. K State’s Cooper Beebe (who had an unofficial visit to MN in 2018), younger brother of fan favorite Colton Beebe, is being picked by a couple of services as one of the top three if not the top IOL draft prospect in college football. Cooper was rated 0.8378 coming out of HS. He’d be at the tail end of this year’s MN class; but he was higher rated than Antoine Winfield, Jr. (at 0.8285). HS rankings matter, but for a developmental program such as the U, the eye test, long-term upside and desire to play for the U matter just as much. Judge recruiting prowess by actual wins in real games not hypothetical wins based on preliminary heats.
 
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PMWinSTP said:
Hmmm, not what others are stating while defending that we are not seeing more 4*. They are saying the opposite...that the talent gap between them is mostly insignificant. Just sayin'...
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I'll walk back my statement a bit to just say that I don't think it's as simple as saying, we used to get 3* and now we still are. Whether the differences are reflected in rankings or not, I don't know, but it seems like PJ is getting higher caliber 3* than we used to in general, but maybe I'm just being a homer.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I'll walk back my statement a bit to just say that I don't think it's as simple as saying, we used to get 3* and now we still are. Whether the differences are reflected in rankings or not, I don't know, but it seems like PJ is getting higher caliber 3* than we used to in general, but maybe I'm just being a homer.
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Forget the ratings. We are getting kids with Power 5 offers. What coaches think of a high school player is all that matters.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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It all starts with winning the first title.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
here is my concern/consideration:

under previous coaches, the Gophers tended to recruit mostly 3* players with a "coach them up" philosophy. But a lot of people said that wasn't good enough - that the Gophers needed to have "better" recruiting classes. When Fleck was hired, Coyle mentioned recruiting as one of the reasons for making the change.

I will stipulate that recruiting has improved under Fleck. But, the Gophers are still signing most of their players in that 3* level.

so, recruiting has improved, but has it improved enough to make a difference? is the talent level improving to a point where the Gophers can be a legitimate contender for a conference title, play in major bowl games, etc?

If MN wants to beat IA and WI on a regular basis, they can't just be even with them in recruiting - they have to be better.

some of the recruits look promising - but are they at that level where MN can say they have more talent, or better talent than IA and WI?

I'm not convinced that MN is closing the talent gap.

I hope for the best, but if the Gophers want to play with the big dogs, they have to recruit with the big dogs.
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Coyle was dumb to talk about recruiting rankings as a reason for firing Claeys and hiring Fleck. But that's not Flecks fault. I think the win loss record under Fleck is proof enough that things are improving.
 


Dakota2 said:
Forget the ratings. We are getting kids with Power 5 offers. What coaches think of a high school player is all that matters.
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We are also getting kids the staff wants in June. Why would the staff offer a kid in June if they weren't confident in his abilities? It's a lot different than taking chances on kids in February trying to fill out a class. A kid who commits early is going to get less offers, go to less camps, and get less exposure to recruiting services. From 2017-2021 if you look at the top 3 players in each class, at least one has transferred, some years 2. So yeah we could add a couple 4 stars and get a big ranking boost, but it just doesn't make the difference that people imagine it does.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I'll walk back my statement a bit to just say that I don't think it's as simple as saying, we used to get 3* and now we still are. Whether the differences are reflected in rankings or not, I don't know, but it seems like PJ is getting higher caliber 3* than we used to in general, but maybe I'm just being a homer.
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He is, but others out here are saying that difference is insignificant as a reason for not worring about not having more 4*. I can argue either way. Using 247, In the last 10 years Gophs have averaged (rounded) 11th in the B1G in recruiting, IA 9th, and WI 7th. Since Fleck has been here Gophs have averaged 10th in the B1G in recruiting, IA 8th, and WI 7th.
 



I’ll just leave this here.

 


It is undeniable when you watch games that we have better players under Fleck. Faster, bigger and smarter! Look at the Ohio State game...we were in that game, didn't look over matched. We are getting players that want to grow not only as players but as men. I like that we have the highest grade point avg and no arrests under Fleck. Will we ever be like Alabama and Ohio State? Who knows! But will we have competitive teams with quality players that get involved in our community...YES! Maybe I am a little Pollyanna but I like that our players are well spoken, have goals outside football and play hard on Saturdays! Our coaching staff asks alot of the players and it seems they give a lot back. I think we will see lots of former players impacting our community in positive ways outside of football. It is also exciting to see gopher players in the NFL!
 

Low expectations are the key to being a happy fan, or really for anything in life…

The coaching talent is at least as important as the player talent. Fine to argue proportion.
 
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I thought the whole point was to see the Gopher Football program move to "the next level."

As I understand it, the next level means playing for conference championships, playing in major bowl games - maybe even the Rose bowl - and every now and then, being mentioned as a possible national playoff contender.

The program is not at that level now.

to reach that level, they need more talent. I am not discounting the role of coaches, but in the end, it's about players.

for the last 5 years, the Gophers combination of players+coaching has not been good enough to beat Iowa. So either the coaches have to get better or the talent has to get better.

because until they beat Iowa, they're not going to win a Conference Title.

so either they have to recruit better players, or some rich sonufabitch is going to have to cough up about $10-million in NIL money to buy some better players.

p.s. I do not have $10-million.
 

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