"Gut the Gophers" Homecoming sign has Illini fraternity in hot water

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maroonedinCA said:
Yes, the PR police are such a bad thing for being upset / offended by a clearly racist rendering of an American Indian. How dare they. But I get it, you're a real straight shooter. Ain't affraid to say nothin' to nobody. A real man's man and the rest of us are just sensitive little babies that are probably vegan too.
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Do you get out of the shower to take a leak?
 


upnorthkid said:
No because you can't argue with someone over a subjective decision when they're going to hold hard and fast to their opinion regardless because there is no scientific evidence to disprove a subjective stance. Thus what's the point of arguing. It'd be like calling your mom ugly and you saying she's pretty. It's a matter of opinion and really has no basis in arguing between 2 people. That said, I don't care what your opinion is. I don't find it offensive. Some people will. How we choose to punish them, which is what furry was suggesting, is more a matter of debate.
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If we are debating proper punishment we are both acknowledging that what was done is wrong. Just to what degree.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Irish isn't a race, much like American, or French isn't a race. That's why it's not racist. Maybe it's offensive, but that's for the Irish community to decide.
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What race are Irish people or people of Irish decent? Think larger next time... My brothers
 

Gopher028 said:
What race are Irish people or people of Irish decent? Think larger next time... My brothers
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And technically according to my brother who's native American, it's not a different race, but nationality, hence sovereign nations with reservations.

Nationality, as it is with Irish.
 



Gopher028 said:
And technically according to my brother who's native American, it's not a different race, but nationality, hence sovereign nations with reservations.

Nationality, as it is with Irish.
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Well I'm glad your brother speaks for an entire people.
 

If they weren't prejudiced, these frat boys would have portrayed the native american and the gopher smiling and holding hands while doing yoga. The fact that they showed their mascot behaving aggressively clearly demonstrates their unreconstructed racist perspective.
 




maroonedinCA said:
One racist 'joke' is taking place on the grounds of a University organization (fraternity). This 'slippery slope' aruguement is tried and true (Washington Redskins supports) but all indications are that it doesn't hold up in reality.

And yes, if the student code of conduct allows for a suspension, and the university acts on it then I would have no problem with that either. You're shifting the discussion away from "was this offensive" to "should they be punished if it's offensive".
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Oh Jeez!! Give it a break. Everything that is drawn by anybody short of one of the Dutch Masters is a caricature - white males are regularly lampooned on daily basis in a section of the newspaper known as the comics. There was NO insult meant to Indians by that drawing. No wonder people tire of the BS that comes out of California - and I'm a registered Democrat

I grew up close to an old fort that was built to protect one indian tribe from another.
 

A student hires the U to educate him and the code of conduct applies how? The mythical stretch we all are trained to mentally apply here is the maxim that you volunteer to join a group and live by its rules. This is like downloading software and agreeing to the community standards language. 99% of people don't even read the contract. The code of conduct is a one way agreement. The student joins for the training, not the voluntary association. Yet, we will defend that code of conduct like our life depends on it in court and in public opinion. This is just another one of the white lies we tell ourselves that these things matter. And, we enforce them as if the breach of etiquette has real consequences that affect the community. In reality, it doesn't matter. The damage is so temporary that enforcing the community standard only prolongs the damage. That is the real tragedy about this. And, we will all celebrate the administrators when they punk the perps and highlight how they have not abided by the code. At best it is a distractions from more important work. At worst, it is a waste of time. The offensive speech is free speech. And, once again, private parties don't have free speech between them. And, once again I am reminded of the fact that the Constitution only guarantees free speech from citizens to our government. We minimize free speech between individuals. And, that is more and more the culture of our country. To me, it shows how intolerant we have become.

If I were in charge, I simply would have placed a call to the President of the frat and told him I thought it was a dumb idea. Do better next time. Shame has a larger impact than any other penalty. What Illinois is doing now is nothing more than a (warning: cliché to follow) dog and pony show.

And as is par for Gopherhole, let my grilling and roasting begin in earnest, because on GH we expect to be shamed from time to time.
 


I've got their disciplinary files right here. Who dropped a whole truckload of fizzies into the varsity swim meet? Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner? Every Halloween, the trees are filled with underwear. Every spring, the toilets explode.
 



Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life.

I will say this about the larger point. My relatives came from Norway and Sweden (hence the moniker). I am not native american, and therefore I am not qualified to say what Native Americans might find offensive. And, in a college setting - which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to about education and learning, I can see where the administration might frown on a student group presenting images that can be seen as stereotyping or racially insensitive.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life.

I will say this about the larger point. My relatives came from Norway and Sweden (hence the moniker). I am not native american, and therefore I am not qualified to say what Native Americans might find offensive. And, in a college setting - which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to about education and learning, I can see where the administration might frown on a student group presenting images that can be seen as stereotyping or racially insensitive.
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I agree Short and Ornery one. I think the University of ILL is still on a bit of a hot seat after sacking Profe before he officially started due to his Tweets around Palestine/Israel. He is mentioned in the article, and nationally ILL has taken a lot of heat about this from the academic community.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...ming-sign.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-steven-salaita-tenure-jews-twitter-tweets-unive-20140929-story.html
 

Native Americans did exist, wore Native American clothes, and I imagine that they had occasion to "gut" animals for their use as food and materials. The PC Police need to stop it!
 

Should we really let the most sensitive among us define cultural ettiquette?
 

Believe it or not a student there was recently threatening to commit suicide because there were still "threatening" images of Chief Illiniwek on campus...such as on old t-shirts. You just can't make this crazy stuff up...
 

If I am not mistaken they are still the "fighting illini" right? This is all the universities fault then and these kids shouldn't be blamed.

Seriously? People actually care about that sign? How can people who are so easily offended actually live in this world? Go live in your bubble and don't bother the rest of us who actually want to enjoy life.
 

The university might as well make sure all copies of Peter Pan and Pocahontas on campus are burned while they're at it.
 


Dean S said:
A student hires the U to educate him and the code of conduct applies how? The mythical stretch we all are trained to mentally apply here is the maxim that you volunteer to join a group and live by its rules. This is like downloading software and agreeing to the community standards language. 99% of people don't even read the contract. The code of conduct is a one way agreement. The student joins for the training, not the voluntary association. Yet, we will defend that code of conduct like our life depends on it in court and in public opinion. This is just another one of the white lies we tell ourselves that these things matter. And, we enforce them as if the breach of etiquette has real consequences that affect the community. In reality, it doesn't matter. The damage is so temporary that enforcing the community standard only prolongs the damage. That is the real tragedy about this. And, we will all celebrate the administrators when they punk the perps and highlight how they have not abided by the code. At best it is a distractions from more important work. At worst, it is a waste of time. The offensive speech is free speech. And, once again, private parties don't have free speech between them. And, once again I am reminded of the fact that the Constitution only guarantees free speech from citizens to our government. We minimize free speech between individuals. And, that is more and more the culture of our country. To me, it shows how intolerant we have become.

If I were in charge, I simply would have placed a call to the President of the frat and told him I thought it was a dumb idea. Do better next time. Shame has a larger impact than any other penalty. What Illinois is doing now is nothing more than a (warning: cliché to follow) dog and pony show.
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Well said.
 

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