Gustavus Taking Facilities to Next Level for DIII

Donate To GopherHole
Word said:
People say this all the time but it's not true in most cases. Sure, they discount it from $60,000 a year to $40,000 but that's still quite a bit more than a public college.

I can also go to the U for free with grants and scholarships.
Click to expand...

Average net price (2017) is $29,894. Actually higher than I expected.

 




hungan1 said:
Most students who go to MIAC schools don't pay the full tuition. If you come from a disadvantaged background, you can probably get a pretty decent financial package is my guest.
Click to expand...

That's how it worked in the late 80s.

Go Pipers!
 



Believe their football stadium is about 5ish years old. Good for them. They’ve always been a head scratcher when it comes to FB. They should be better than they are.
 


FatNTired said:
Average net price (2017) is $29,894. Actually higher than I expected.

Click to expand...
It has gone up significantly in the last 15 years is my guess.

my net price was basically break even with the U to go to UST and I’m dumber than most and didn’t get as much aid as most of my friends.
 



SJUgopher said:
Believe their football stadium is about 5ish years old. Good for them. They’ve always been a head scratcher when it comes to FB. They should be better than they are.
Click to expand...
Who are you going to recruit is the issue?
 

Some guy said:
Who are you going to recruit is the issue?
Click to expand...
The entire MIAC draws from a similar recruiting base, so I am not sure what your point is.

Gustavus actually has more MIAC football championships than St. Thomas. But, there hasn’t been one since 1987 and much like the situation with the Gophers - some people assume that once there has been a drought, it can never happen again.

in general, in terms of general athletic department success in the MIAC in recent decades... the hierarchy in Men’s sports has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap followed by SJU and GAC, and then everyone else. In Women’s sports it has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap, then GAC, then St. Bens, then everyone else.
 


Schnauzer said:
The entire MIAC draws from a similar recruiting base, so I am not sure what your point is.

Gustavus actually has more MIAC football championships than St. Thomas. But, there hasn’t been one since 1987 and much like the situation with the Gophers - some people assume that once there has been a drought, it can never happen again.

in general, in terms of general athletic department success in the MIAC in recent decades... the hierarchy in Men’s sports has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap followed by SJU and GAC, and then everyone else. In Women’s sports it has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap, then GAC, then St. Bens, then everyone else.
Click to expand...
My point is that MIAC recruiting is really niche.
Augsburg recruits a type of kid. St John’s recruits a type of kid.
gustavus has really no consistency in recruiting. There isn’t an identifiable pattern of what Types of player end up there.

They are behind St John, Concordia, bethel, in the football hierarchy
They aren’t as good of a school as Olaf or Carleton.
They aren’t as appealing for inner ring suburb kids as Augsburg.


they’re in no mans land.
I’m not talking about any sport except football.
They’ve maxed out unless they change their recruiting patterns



Although now that you bring up a conference title from when these kids’ dads were in college you almost changed my mind.
I might be underestimating then. They might be more of an equal to Concordia than behind them like I have in my mind.
 



Some guy said:
My point is that MIAC recruiting is really niche.
Augsburg recruits a type of kid. St John’s recruits a type of kid.
gustavus has really no consistency in recruiting. There isn’t an identifiable pattern of what Types of player end up there.

They are behind St John, Concordia, bethel, in the football hierarchy
They aren’t as good of a school as Olaf or Carleton.
They aren’t as appealing for inner ring suburb kids as Augsburg.


they’re in no mans land.
I’m not talking about any sport except football.
They’ve maxed out unless they change their recruiting patterns



Although now that you bring up a conference title from when these kids’ dads were in college you almost changed my mind.
I might be underestimating then. They might be more of an equal to Concordia than behind them like I have in my mind.
Click to expand...

Since 1987 Concordia has won 4 MIAC football titles, been runner-up 9 times, 7 more top 3 finishes, and only 4 seasons finishing 6th or worse (bottom half of conference).
 

fatgopher said:
Since 1987 Concordia has won 4 MIAC football titles, been runner-up 9 times, 7 more top 3 finishes, and only 4 seasons finishing 6th or worse (bottom half of conference).
Click to expand...
That makes me think they’re behind Concordia
 

Some guy said:
My point is that MIAC recruiting is really niche.
Augsburg recruits a type of kid. St John’s recruits a type of kid.
gustavus has really no consistency in recruiting. There isn’t an identifiable pattern of what Types of player end up there.

They are behind St John, Concordia, bethel, in the football hierarchy
They aren’t as good of a school as Olaf or Carleton.
They aren’t as appealing for inner ring suburb kids as Augsburg.


they’re in no mans land.
I’m not talking about any sport except football.
They’ve maxed out unless they change their recruiting patterns



Although now that you bring up a conference title from when these kids’ dads were in college you almost changed my mind.
I might be underestimating then. They might be more of an equal to Concordia than behind them like I have in my mind.
Click to expand...



1. GAC vs Concordia. GAC has a substantial lead in the overall series (47-39-2) and has won the last two head to head meetings. Not exactly screams being "behind" the Concordia football program in conference football hierarchy. Bethel certainly has been better in football than GAC in recent years so I'll give you that one, although I'd argue "recruiting identity" is far down the list of reasons why.

2. Aren't as "good of a school as St. Olaf and Carleton". True, but there isn't a huge difference between GAC and St. Olaf in particular (US News and World Report has their Liberal Arts national rankings at 84 and 67. Very similar kids/students with similar backgrounds although I believe the average student booze consumption levels might be a bit higher at GAC). Not to mention GAC has been beating both St. Olaf and especially Carleton on a regular basis for a long time in football so I'm not sure if GAC would want to duplicate their recruiting profiles. The other way around? Perhaps. Using your logic, St. Johns, despite regularly beating GAC in football is at a recruiting identity disadvantage because it ranks below GAC in academics.

3. Not as appealing to inner ring suburb kids as Augsburg? Again, GAC rarely loses football games to Augsburg. Not sure if "recruiting identity" is a problem for GAC when comparing those schools in football if Augsburg is regularly beaten head to head. With GAC having a 60-18 advantage head to head with Augsburg in football, including winning the past 6 games in a row, I'm fairly confident that matching Augsburg's inner ring suburb recruiting success is down the list of priorities among the GAC coaching staff.

3. No mans land? One hour from the Twin Cities, 10 minutes from Mankato. Closer to the "city" than St. John's, in a bigger town.

I do get what you are trying to say, but I think you've got it a bit backwards. GAC tends to appeal to a wider range of student athletes and therefore the recruiting tends to not be limited to a certain type of kid. That is potentially more of an advantage than a disadvantage in my opinion. For GAC, I don't think finding a recruiting niche like the programs that it regularly beats is a recipe for catching the two schools it is chasing. I agree with what SJUGopher said above - given the considerable resources, investment in the program, etc. - GAC should have been regularly better with more conf championships than what has been shown in the decades since 1987. I have my theories on why this has happened, but that is for another time and I have already typed enough here to bore pretty much anyone. I just don't think recruiting tops that list other than to say the obvious: it is always better to recruit better football players.
 
Last edited:

Carleton is higher rated than Mac, and even Grinnell I believe.

So of course no other MIAC school is as highly rated as them.
 
Last edited:

Schnauzer said:
1. GAC vs Concordia. GAC has a substantial lead in the overall series (47-39-2) and has won the last two head to head meetings. Not exactly screams being "behind" the Concordia football program in conference football hierarchy. Bethel certainly has been better in football than GAC in recent years so I'll give you that one, although I'd argue "recruiting identity" is far down the list of reasons why.

2. Aren't as "good of a school as St. Olaf and Carleton". True, but there isn't a huge difference between GAC and St. Olaf in particular (US News and World Report has their Liberal Arts national rankings at 84 and 67. Very similar kids/students with similar backgrounds although I believe the average student booze consumption levels might be a bit higher at GAC). Not to mention GAC has been beating both St. Olaf and especially Carleton on a regular basis for a long time in football so I'm not sure if GAC would want to duplicate their recruiting profiles. The other way around? Perhaps. Using your logic, St. Johns, despite regularly beating GAC in football is at a recruiting identity disadvantage because it ranks below GAC in academics.

3. Not as appealing to inner ring suburb kids as Augsburg? Again, GAC rarely loses football games to Augsburg. Not sure if "recruiting identity" is a problem for GAC when comparing those schools in football if Augsburg is regularly beaten head to head. With GAC having a 60-18 advantage head to head with Augsburg in football, including winning the past 6 games in a row, I'm fairly confident that matching Augsburg's inner ring suburb recruiting success is down the list of priorities among the GAC coaching staff.

3. No mans land? One hour from the Twin Cities, 10 minutes from Mankato. Closer to the "city" than St. John's, in a bigger town.

I do get what you are trying to say, but I think you've got it a bit backwards. GAC tends to appeal to a wider range of student athletes and therefore the recruiting tends to not be limited to a certain type of kid. That is potentially more of an advantage than a disadvantage in my opinion. For GAC, I don't think finding a recruiting niche like the programs that it regularly beats is a recipe for catching the two schools it is chasing. I agree with what SJUGopher said above - given the considerable resources, investment in the program, etc. - GAC should have been regularly better with more conf championships than what has been shown in the decades since 1987. I have my theories on why this has happened, but that is for another time and I have already typed enough here to bore pretty much anyone. I just don't think recruiting tops that list other than to say the obvious: it is always better to recruit better football players.
Click to expand...
We will see if they make a jump with UST gone.
I just feel like they’re perennially stuck in the second tier and there isn’t really a niche they can carve that someone else doesn’t already have
 

GAC is a tennis school.
 

Schnauzer said:
1. GAC vs Concordia. GAC has a substantial lead in the overall series (47-39-2) and has won the last two head to head meetings. Not exactly screams being "behind" the Concordia football program in conference football hierarchy. Bethel certainly has been better in football than GAC in recent years so I'll give you that one, although I'd argue "recruiting identity" is far down the list of reasons why.
Click to expand...
Using overall series record is like saying the Gophers had a better program than the Badgers through mid/late 2010’s because we owned the series record. GACs dominance was many decades ago. I was speaking to overall health of program since GAC last won a conference title (the original conversation). The Cobbers beat the Johnnies in their last game (2019)...so what. I wouldn’t say that near-term performance means Concordia is ahead of SJU.

I love all the levels of football though, fun talking MIAC!
 

fatgopher said:
Using overall series record is like saying the Gophers had a better program than the Badgers through mid/late 2010’s because we owned the series record. GACs dominance was many decades ago. I was speaking to overall health of program since GAC last won a conference title (the original conversation). The Cobbers beat the Johnnies in their last game (2019)...so what. I wouldn’t say that near-term performance means Concordia is ahead of SJU.

I love all the levels of football though, fun talking MIAC!
Click to expand...
So, near term performance doesn’t matter. Fair enough. But overall performance doesn’t matter either. Okay. The only thing that matters is what you want to matter. Sure.
 

Schnauzer said:
The entire MIAC draws from a similar recruiting base, so I am not sure what your point is.

Gustavus actually has more MIAC football championships than St. Thomas. But, there hasn’t been one since 1987 and much like the situation with the Gophers - some people assume that once there has been a drought, it can never happen again.

in general, in terms of general athletic department success in the MIAC in recent decades... the hierarchy in Men’s sports has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap followed by SJU and GAC, and then everyone else. In Women’s sports it has been UST in a class by itself, then a big gap, then GAC, then St. Bens, then everyone else.
Click to expand...

True for women, but in the big MIAC sports, SJU has been better than UST at football, baseball, and even with them in hockey and basketball. UST dominates in T&F and have a good soccer program. SJU and UST had national championship-caliber basketball teams last year. SJU won 2/3 and their sweet 16 matchup was wiped out by Covid.
 

SJUgopher said:
SJU has been better than UST at football, baseball, and even with them in hockey and basketball.
Click to expand...
How do you figure this?

Just taking a quick glance at the conference titles from the MIAC wikipedia page does not seem to support this since 2010 for any of those sports, although it did not list it for baseball.
 

Schnauzer said:
So, near term performance doesn’t matter. Fair enough. But overall performance doesn’t matter either. Okay. The only thing that matters is what you want to matter. Sure.
Click to expand...

Almost the entire thread is about GACs investment and what has happened to their football team since their last conference title. Concordia has easily had a better (and more importantly consistent) program over that time. Not the best in the MIAC but to the original comments about where GAC currently stands, it’s behind SJU, Bethel, and Concordia.
 

Schnauzer said:
3. No mans land? One hour from the Twin Cities, 10 minutes from Mankato. Closer to the "city" than St. John's, in a bigger town.
Click to expand...

I do think St. Peter can be a tough sell. When I think back to my time there St. Peter is at about the bottom of the list on the fondness scale. Everything about the experience up at the college is great but getting trashed at Patrick's (great), The Flame or some house is only sustainable for so long. Having a nationally relevant basketball team at the time certainly helped but football was utterly atrocious to watch.
 
Last edited:


fatgopher said:
Almost the entire thread is about GACs investment and what has happened to their football team since their last conference title. Concordia has easily had a better (and more importantly consistent) program over that time. Not the best in the MIAC but to the original comments about where GAC currently stands, it’s behind SJU, Bethel, and Concordia.
Click to expand...
With Concordia’s last MIAC football championship being 17 years ago and GAC owning a current two game winning streak head to head, I’m just guessing they are not burning the midnight oil in the St. Peter war room asking themselves “how are we going to get as good as the Cobbers?”
 

MplsGopher said:
How do you figure this?

Just taking a quick glance at the conference titles from the MIAC wikipedia page does not seem to support this since 2010 for any of those sports, although it did not list it for baseball.
Click to expand...

The standings... SJU finished ahead of them in football, basketball, baseball and hockey in 18-19. SJU was better at football, pretty even in hockey (both mediocre - SJU won conf reg season) and basketball (both top 5).
 

SJUgopher said:
in 18-19.
Click to expand...
Oh. So those two years. Forget the rest of it.

You think that would've just continued on for the next ten years, regardless of what UST had done since 2010?

I don't think I agree, but of course it doesn't matter now as UST has moved on.

Would've been interesting if SJ+SB (which is/would be perfectly correct to consider them together) decided to try to follow them up to the Summit + WCHA + Pioneer. But I assume they're happy to just stay in the MIAC for another 100 years. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom