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kellyleeks

kellyleeks

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For those calling for him to benched in favor of Shortell, do you think Brewster was correct in starting Weber over him the last two years?
 



Gray was the third best player on the team today (McKnight and tinsley)
 



kellyleeks said:
For those calling for him to benched in favor of Shortell, do you think Brewster was correct in starting Weber over him the last two years?
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I'll take this question seriously, just for kicks.

The answer is obvious: Brewster was wrong. Perhaps Gray would play with some confidence and conviction to go along with his skill by now if he had replaced Weber a season ago, or at least had focused on being a QB. Gray's playbook is outrageously thin and it shows: defenses have (so far this season) been far from fooled by the play selection.

Kill is doing the right thing with Shortell - not starting him, but giving him a good portion of meaningful snaps with the number 1s and against the number 1s of the opposing team. Gray is the guy, but giving Shortell some opportunities to run the offense will pay off immensely when Shortell becomes the guy.
 

Gray has some talent for sure, but he definitely lacks confidence, and appears to crack under pressure. Experience should help that, so yeah, if you were going to play him at all the past two years you should have played him more just to get some mileage on him.
 

After 2 games it is pretty clear Gray is probably not a QB. I thought he would have better running abiltiy, but he flat out is just too inaccurate of a passer and possibly unable to read defenses. Tight? Maybe. I don't know. I think I would take my chances with Shortell and hope he continues to improve based on he is clearly a better passer.
 

Gray demonsrrated today that he is a gifted athlete. He also showed at times that he hasn't been a starting QB for some time. He'll be just fine by the time the B1G season begins. IMHO, of course. God bless coach Kill, hoping we hear good news soon!
 



I believe Brewster made the right choice with sticking with Weber. He should have been more willing to work him in on occasion.

I really thought this was a game Gray would take over with his feet. I thought the first half was an interesting game plan. I wish I would have dvr'd the game to watch back but it sure felt like we had Gray dropping back and passing a lot those first three series. I also am floored why the didn't just put Gray under center on some of the 3 and 1 or 4 and 1 and just let him sneak it for 1 yd. I find it hard to believe he couldn't have picked up at least one of those.

Gray has a lot of work to do and really Shortell didn't look much better than him today. Only difference is I have confidence in Shortell being able to drop back and throw the deep ball. The issue is do the Gophers have the WR's to come up with those plays.

I know it is off topic but right now the DL and OL are killing this team.
 

TheLink said:
I believe Brewster made the right choice with sticking with Weber. He should have been more willing to work him in on occasion.

I really thought this was a game Gray would take over with his feet. I thought the first half was an interesting game plan. I wish I would have dvr'd the game to watch back but it sure felt like we had Gray dropping back and passing a lot those first three series. I also am floored why the didn't just put Gray under center on some of the 3 and 1 or 4 and 1 and just let him sneak it for 1 yd. I find it hard to believe he couldn't have picked up at least one of those.

Gray has a lot of work to do and really Shortell didn't look much better than him today. Only difference is I have confidence in Shortell being able to drop back and throw the deep ball. The issue is do the Gophers have the WR's to come up with those plays.

I know it is off topic but right now the DL and OL are killing this team.
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I hate to play the "WRs dropped the pass" excuse, but 2 of Shortell's drives were ended by drops from McKnight.

The first drop happened when Shortell lead them into the red zone and McKnight dropped a pass on a slant that would of been a touchdown. The pass wasn't perfect but it went through McKnight's hands. 80% McKnight's fault/ 20% Shortell's fault

The second drop happened on 3rd and short and Shortell threw a perfect pass to McKnight in the flat which he dropped, he was wide open as well.

But Shortell also threw a couple god awful passes, one of which should have been intercepted.

I still think that Shortell is a better QB than Gray and that we should turn Gray into a HB/WR hybrid and use Shortell as the QB the rest of the year.
 

I'm going to get jumped on, but i've been saying since last year that Gray at QB will be more of a liability with his arm than an asset with his legs, and if he can only help us with his legs, then he needs to be a WR permanently. YES, Weber was the better QB and I agreed with Brewster there. There is a lot more to being the field general on offense than just having outstanding athletic ability......... you have to be calm, poise, smart, judgmental and ahead of everyone else on the field in every category. When in the spring game, it was clear to me that Alipate outplayed him in every realm, a much better QB than Moses is Shortell who is poised, calm, smart and ready to take over. Not that Gray isn't a great football player, smart, strong and a leader, he absolutely is, but not at QB. It just is what it is..... Further to that, his future in the NFL is at WR. No question.
 

Gopher028 said:
I'm going to get jumped on, but i've been saying since last year that Gray at QB will be more of a liability with his arm than an asset with his legs, and if he can only help us with his legs, then he needs to be a WR permanently. YES, Weber was the better QB and I agreed with Brewster there. There is a lot more to being the field general on offense than just having outstanding athletic ability......... you have to be calm, poise, smart, judgmental and ahead of everyone else on the field in every category. When in the spring game, it was clear to me that Alipate outplayed him in every realm, a much better QB than Moses is Shortell who is poised, calm, smart and ready to take over. Not that Gray isn't a great football player, smart, strong and a leader, he absolutely is, but not at QB. It just is what it is..... Further to that, his future in the NFL is at WR. No question.
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100% agreed.
 



Give me a break. Gray definitely had a couple rough moments, but overall he threw the ball pretty well today. Most significantly, he has gotten better as time has gone on. Both touchdown passes were outstanding throws, and he made the final drive happen with his ability to get out of the pocket and scramble.

And, not to get too far off topic, but Weber was awful in the accuracy department. I didn't see any hitch patterns bounce pass to wide open receivers today. For those at the ballgame, I think it is fair to say on a good share of the incomplete passes there was nary an open receiver...
 

Gray's last pass attempt that he threw while laying on his back was one of the worst collegiate QB plays I have ever seen. They go 0-4 now and you'll see Kill begin to put in his younger players and sit the seniors- then you will see a full implosion. see Brewster 2007. I wouldn't let Gray start the next game after that game
 

FKRitter11 said:
Give me a break. Gray definitely had a couple rough moments, but overall he threw the ball pretty well today. Most significantly, he has gotten better as time has gone on. Both touchdown passes were outstanding throws, and he made the final drive happen with his ability to get out of the pocket and scramble.

And, not to get too far off topic, but Weber was awful in the accuracy department. I didn't see any hitch patterns bounce pass to wide open receivers today. For those at the ballgame, I think it is fair to say on a good share of the incomplete passes there was nary an open receiver...
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If today was 'pretty well' I don't even want to know what bad is. Gray was horrible today at throwing the ball. He made a few good plays with his legs, but today is a day he should try and forget.

If today was 'pretty well' we wont win a B10 game.
 

It appeared that the game plan was to get Gray experience, and a greater sense of comfort, throwing the ball...almost at all costs. Where was the running game? Yes, we had 181 yards on the ground, but do you know how many of those yards were from RB production? 36 yards!!! That is a ridiculous total vs. a team like NM State. I was not impressed with the O-line today, but in my estimation, we really never gave the running game a chance...tough to figure out.
 

By the time we head to Purdue, we will know Gray's future. That gives him 5 games to grow into the position. If it is Shortell, then you are okay with the potential to go 0-13. A true frosh with this schedule is a killer. Does make some sense, especially with Gray filling the McKnight void next year at WR.

It is going to be tough winning a game this year with our QB situation. The drops didn't help today either, but Gray throwing fades to McKnight are pretty ugly.
 

GoldenRose said:
It appeared that the game plan was to get Gray experience, and a greater sense of comfort, throwing the ball...almost at all costs. Where was the running game? Yes, we had 181 yards on the ground, but do you know how many of those yards were from RB production? 36 yards!!! That is a ridiculous total vs. a team like NM State. I was not impressed with the O-line today, but in my estimation, we really never gave the running game a chance...tough to figure out.
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I felt the the same way. We seemed to throw a lot of 1st and 2nd down.
 



Weber should have been the starter. Weber should not have taken nearly every snap, especially at the end of blowout losses.
 

Gray is as green as you can get after not playing QB for four years including HS. Both Q & Max should get better as the season progress.

The entire team will be better two or three years down the road under Kill's system. We just need to be patient. Win or lose the next couple of games, they are learning and maturing together as a team.
 

They were stacking the box and leaving single coverage in the secondary all afternoon. They did abandon the 2nd down run though too early.
 

Shortell is the future, get him in there now as long as everyone (including the coach) says this is a rebuilding year. We can have four years of him as a starter with a lot of valuable experience in this 'rebuilding' year. Gray is a good receiver, that's where he should play for the next two years; it is clear the team could use him at the WR position. Get ALL your best players on the field at the same time, Shortell to Gray would be a great combination.
 

Gold Vision said:
They were stacking the box and leaving single coverage in the secondary all afternoon. They did abandon the 2nd down run though too early.
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Agree fully. Need to make them pay in passing game more, obviously, in that situation. Even when NMS didn't leave everyone in the box, they disguised their look well; i.e. giving a squat corner look with 8-9 in the box and no safety help, and then dropping off into a more pass defense friendly look at the snap.
 

Agree with you Golden Rose. Felt like this team came out with idea of just proving Gray could throw the ball at will. Only think I can think of is they were hoping to get some looks where lanes opened up for him to run early. Thought it was really confusing 1st play of 2nd half they have designed run for Shortell and then run a sweep with a back. Neither of those plays were called when Gray was in the game.

Goofer I do agree there were some key drops when Shortell was in the game. The McNight one my mom could have walked into the end zone if she caught that pass. Guess my point is we need better WR play before it will make huge difference who is at QB.

wait! you are seriousl going to even bring up the last pass play. He got caught in pocket and panicked realizing he was getting sacked so just heaved it up hoping for some miracle. To even talk about that pass like it was actual attempt is laughable.

Real quick can someone tell me last time a pocket passer won a national championship? Pocket passers get paid in the NFL. College is all about the qb's who can exploit the weaknesses of the defense and make them pay with their legs when plays break down. Honestly after todays performance I do have concerns that Gray as a runner is overrated. 1.) He puts the ball on the ground too much for my liking. 2.) He seems indecisive when he doesn't have open field or sideline. 3.) In a game like today when he knows he is needed would have liked to see him truck some of their corners with his size. You will never convince me he couldn't have done that several times inside the 10 today.
 

For all of you clamoring for Shortell to start now, what will happen if/when Shortell gets injured? Who comes in? Parish? Lueck? You want them to throw Gray back in there after not working any QB snaps? What's the answer? Please let the coaching staff know so they can make you happy. I like Shortell as the QB. Just not this year. Is it ugly at times with Gray in and not looking like the QB we thought he would be? Yes. However, playing our true freshman with no experience(maybe talent) behind him at all spells disaster for whatever hope we may have this year. Shortell is getting valuable game experience the right way with the amount of depth and talent the team has right now. Personally I think he overtakes Gray late in the season or camp next season but the staff is working with what they have. Godspeed Coach Kill.
 

wait!what? said:
Gray's last pass attempt that he threw while laying on his back was one of the worst collegiate QB plays I have ever seen.
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This is a completely asinine statement. It is fairly common in these (desperation, fourth down type) scenarios to see a QB get sacked to effectively end the game. How is this not better? He gave it a shot, however tiny, and had the awareness to at least get the ball out of his hands; it looked pathetic but was still infinite times better than taking a sack

Edit: Actually, a better point to make is this was THE PLAY AFTER HIS HEAD COACH WENT DOWN WITH A SEIZURE AND HAD TO BE CARTED OFF. Yeah, like I am going to expect a kid to even be thinking about the action on the field, let alone make a game saving play on 4th and 10 right after that happens
 

kellyleeks said:
For those calling for him to benched in favor of Shortell, do you think Brewster was correct in starting Weber over him the last two years?
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Wait, are you implying that Brewster started Weber over Shortell because thats what you're argueing here. SHORTELL IS BETTER THAN GRAY. GRAY IS BETTER THAN WEBER
 

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