Gophers vs West Virginia in Guaranteed Rate Bowl

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MplsGopher said:
Yeah, neverminding the weather ... you're talking like, leave 8pm Sunday night, drive straight through and get there Monday evening sometime between like 6-8pm.

Hope you have someone to split the driving with.


Now here is where we need self-driving cars!!!
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25 hours according to Google maps. Oye Ve! I certainly would be willing to do something like 15 but no way would I do 25. Nashville is only about 13 hrs and Dallas-Ft. Worth, if the Big Ten had a bowl there, is about 15.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Gopher Lady called Sun country for the Citrus bowl game and they added two flights and my son and I scored two tickets for around $250 each. This could happen again
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That's great!!


Hope that if there are 300-350 people willing to go under conditions like that, they'd be willing to do that again.
 

cjbfbp said:
25 hours according to Google maps. Oye Ve! I certainly would be willing to do something like 15 but no way would I do 25. Nashville is only about 13 hrs and Dallas-Ft. Worth, if the Big Ten had a bowl there, is about 15.
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Yeah I think I called the raw road distance like 1650 -- it varies depending if you want a toll route or not -- and divided that by 80 to get about 20.5 hrs. Obviously it's never that easy, and that doesn't factor in all the necessary stops.
 


BarnBurner said:
Could you answer the question, or are you too butt hurt?

To anyone paying attention, fans right here have said they wont be attending due to the bowl assignment. And it appears unanimous MN fans see the assignment as a slight by the conference.
Already.

So, then,.....
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Have already answered your questions and there is no point going round and round on this because you clearly want to see something happen that never will.

Fans want to change the perception of Minnesota, pack the Bank for every home game, not just the big ones. Travel to road games and make bowl trips (has gotten a lot better over time but still fighting past reputation). The product on the field is getting better but we still look like a pretty weak fanbase compared to a lot of our competitors.
 


WorkingMyTailOff said:
Gopher Lady called Sun country for the Citrus bowl game and they added two flights and my son and I scored two tickets for around $250 each. This could happen again
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Like I mentioned before, that was when Sun Country was still locally owned by the Cambria people, and before they became a full on no-frills airline. Unlikely to get the same treatment today. But I would totally go if we could get airfare for around $350.
 
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They (SC) have one plane right now scheduled to do four total turns between MSP and PHX, per day it looks like.

603 - leaves MSP 745am
605 - leaves MSP 325pm

604 - leaves PHX 1110am
606 - leaves PHX 710pm


They have less than 50 planes in their total fleet, according to Wikipedia.

If they could spare even one more plane to do a double-turn on those two days, that at least would be another 180 people.
 

You can always try to private charter.

If it was $100k total, and could do 200 ppl, that $500 per ticket.
 

We got screwed. Don't like this placement at all.
 



San Diego is a 5 hr drive I haven't checked but it is an option!
 

BarnBurner said:
The conference plays favorites.
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Yeah. The conference favors itself. Pretty clear to anyone looking that the 4 teams were all pretty close.

Intra 4 way team breakdown
Minnesota 2-0
Penn state 1-0
Wisconsin 1-2
Purdue 0-2

minnesota played in Outback 2 years ago. Outback had Indiana last year. Outback wanted a big ten name brand and they got it.
Minnesota got jumped by Penn State and Penn state got a little favoritism. I agree. But Penn state lost to Illinois, Ohio state, Michigan state, Michigan, and Iowa….
Minnesota 0-3 vs those 5 teams.

Penn states best 3 wins are wisconsin, auburn, and Maryland

minnesotas are wisconsin, Purdue, and Maryland

Penn states worst two losses are Illinois and Iowa.
minnesotas worst two losses are Illinois and bowling green.


I think Minnesota should’ve gotten it over Penn state but it’s not a clear cut screw job. The teams were close and didn’t play. Penn state worse record but harder SOS by a bit.


Then you have 3 teams for 3 spots and they’re placed based on fit. Minnesota probably preferred Arizona to New York as a location. New York probably preferred an east coast team.
Purdue and Nashville are close. Purdue has the smallest fan base of Purdue, MN, and WI and music city bowl doesn’t need a huge crowd with Tennessee in town. Good fit for both.

Then us or wisconsin for Phoenix or Vegas. Again I wouldn’t be surprised if MN preferred Phoenix for alumni reasons.
 

this article on "The Daily Gopher" is the best summary I have seen on the factors that go into bowl placement. (warning - length)

The bowls don’t pick their Big Ten teams in a free for all anymore. The Big Ten has built a tiered system that helps keep things a little more mixed up. It’s been this way since the College Football Playoff started in 2014.

While most conferences will continue to assign their contract bowls a selection number after all the spots in the College Football Playoff and other BCS-type bowls are filled, the Big Ten will adopt a tiered system for its postseason tie-ins.
Bowls likely will be played in an upper tier, a middle tier and a bottom tier, and the Big Ten will work with bowl officials to place teams in games. The goal: to freshen up the bowl landscape.
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The system the Big Ten implemented prioritizes variety in bowl destinations, generally requiring the non-New Years Six bowls affiliated with the conference to feature 5 different Big Ten teams over a 6 year window.* They also work to make sure that non-conference rematches don’t occur in bowl games. And yes, in general, they make sure teams don’t get hopped by schools with inferior seasons. For the purposes of the Big Ten’s criteria, that’s generally meant you don’t get hopped by a team with 2 fewer wins than you. However, head to head wins don’t mean anything.

This process has benefited the Gophers in the past. Under the old bowl pecking order, there’s no way (let me say again, NO WAY) the Gophers play Missouri in the Citrus Bowl as an 8-4 team in 2014 without this process. It kept them from getting hopped by Iowa for the Outback back in 2019. It will benefit the Gophers in the future.

Unfortunately, this is a season where it hurt Minnesota. In the Big Ten this year, the basic breakdown of the bowl eligible teams was as follows:
The “two more wins” rule meant that no one in the middle tier was going to hop OSU, Iowa, or MSU. Though to be fair, no bowl in their right mind would have selected any of the middle tier over those teams this season anyway. However, that guideline DID NOT protect Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Purdue from Penn State.
The Outback Bowl. You might be wondering, why would the Outback Bowl want Penn State anyway? Well, perhaps it’s the fact that Penn State has not been to the Outback Bowl since 2011. Yep. A full decade. Sorry, but bowl’s gonna bowl with that sort of thing. This is where I hear people talk about PSU not “deserving it” over Minnesota and.......well, sorry. I’m not buying that. Why? Because none of the teams with more B1G wins than Penn State in the middle tier deserve the Outback. 8-4 unranked teams don’t have a lot to hang their hats on. Certainly not enough to complain about being jumped by a blue blood who hasn’t been there in a decade.

The Music City Bowl. I can hear the complaints now. “But Purdue was just there in 2018! And Minnesota beat Purdue at Purdue. It’s not fair!” Please stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. The Music City bowl does not care that Minnesota beat Purdue at the beginning of October. They are about butts in the seats. Purdue gave the Music City Bowl it’s 3rd best attended game of the past decade in 2018 due to their proximity to the site. The only two games to draw more fans were Notre Dame/LSU in 2014 (barely more fans) and Nebraska/Tennessee in 2016. It should shock NO ONE that the Music City Bowl picked the driveable Big Ten option to face off against in state SEC opponent Tennessee. Minnesota has proven that Gophers fans will travel. But if you’re the Music City Bowl you’re taking Purdue fans who live within driving distance and haven’t had a bowl to go to in 3 years over the Gophers every time. Will it pay off? I don’t know, but the blazers are predictable.

The Las Vegas Bowl. This one is simple. Wisconsin has never been there. They travel well. I can hear y’all punching up your “but Minnesota sold X tickets to the Outback Bowl in 2019” numbers but I’m sorry, whatever good work Minnesota has done is in recent years. Wisconsin fans have a longer history and haven’t been to this bowl site. And reminder. HEAD TO HEAD DOES NOT MATTER TO A BOWL. The blazers are predictable, so while it sucks, it happens.

The Pinstripe Bowl. This is the ultimately expression of the bad luck Minnesota has this season. West Virginia was the Big 12 representative to the Guaranteed Rate Bowl. WVU played Maryland in the non-conference. That means that even though Minnesota should be protected from Maryland hopping them this season, the Big Ten was going to make sure that the Yankee Bowl got Maryland instead of Minnesota. The system that helped the Gophers in 2014 and 2019 screwed them in 2021.
  • The bowl selection process isn’t about fairness above all else. If you think it should be, then please prepare to be #madonline forever. Also please do it away from me because you sound silly not being able to acknowledge reality.
  • The system the Big Ten has put in place makes things more fair, especially for schools like Minnesota whose history of “traveling for games” is more recent.
  • The system still gives flexibility that can mean you get skipped, because this is still about money, TV matchups, and avoiding bad pairings.
 

discochris said:
Like I mentioned before, that was when Sun Country was still locally owned by the Cambria people, and before they became a full on no-frills airline. Unlikely to get the same treatment today. But I would totally go if we could get airfare for around $350.
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Sun Country literally just did this for the MN United playoff game in Portland.

I'm betting they come through for us again.
 



MNVCGUY said:
Have already answered your questions and there is no point going round and round on this because you clearly want to see something happen that never will.

Fans want to change the perception of Minnesota, pack the Bank for every home game, not just the big ones. Travel to road games and make bowl trips (has gotten a lot better over time but still fighting past reputation). The product on the field is getting better but we still look like a pretty weak fanbase compared to a lot of our competitors.
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All I want is the best game for MN that they earned. Nothing more. MN got jobbed here. I get that you dont agree.

Winning games isn't enough, as past reputation is more important, apparently. Traveling fanbase.

This game isn't going to improve some of the items you cite.
 


Some guy said:
Yeah. The conference favors itself. Pretty clear to anyone looking that the 4 teams were all pretty close.

Intra 4 way team breakdown
Minnesota 2-0
Penn state 1-0
Wisconsin 1-2
Purdue 0-2

minnesota played in Outback 2 years ago. Outback had Indiana last year. Outback wanted a big ten name brand and they got it.
Minnesota got jumped by Penn State and Penn state got a little favoritism. I agree. But Penn state lost to Illinois, Ohio state, Michigan state, Michigan, and Iowa….
Minnesota 0-3 vs those 5 teams.

Penn states best 3 wins are wisconsin, auburn, and Maryland

minnesotas are wisconsin, Purdue, and Maryland

Penn states worst two losses are Illinois and Iowa.
minnesotas worst two losses are Illinois and bowling green.


I think Minnesota should’ve gotten it over Penn state but it’s not a clear cut screw job. The teams were close and didn’t play. Penn state worse record but harder SOS by a bit.


Then you have 3 teams for 3 spots and they’re placed based on fit. Minnesota probably preferred Arizona to New York as a location. New York probably preferred an east coast team.
Purdue and Nashville are close. Purdue has the smallest fan base of Purdue, MN, and WI and music city bowl doesn’t need a huge crowd with Tennessee in town. Good fit for both.

Then us or wisconsin for Phoenix or Vegas. Again I wouldn’t be surprised if MN preferred Phoenix for alumni reasons.
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The conference plays favorites.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I'm bummed like everyone else about getting passed over a few times in the bowl selection process (specifically PSU/Outback, that's laughable). But overall, I'm a little surprised at how down everyone is about our landing spot.

*PHX around the holidays is a good destination. NYC would've been awful (cold, vacc mandates, masks everywhere, super expensive to eat and drink). I'm not a fan of Vegas anymore- been there, done that (although airfare would've been more affordable and seeing the new Raiders stadium would've been cool).

*WVU is very winnable game for us and presents a nice chance to get to 9-4. On the other hand, they beat ISU and nearly took down Oklahoma, so far from a pushover.

*We've never played WVU, always enjoy a fresh matchup. Despite being 6-6 they are a very proud football program with great fan base and a long history of success.

*As for the late kick time- you guys all sound 65 years old. I like it, leaves plenty of time to pregame and get properly lubricated.

I'm really hoping Sun Country comes through with some additional flight options. If not, will probably fly into Vegas and drive down to the Valley. Looking forward to the game!
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The Missus and I are driving from Vegas to the Valley. Was much cheaper to fly to Vegas, though my points took a haircut with the rental car.
 
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MNVCGUY said:
Have already answered your questions and there is no point going round and round on this because you clearly want to see something happen that never will.

Fans want to change the perception of Minnesota, pack the Bank for every home game, not just the big ones. Travel to road games and make bowl trips (has gotten a lot better over time but still fighting past reputation). The product on the field is getting better but we still look like a pretty weak fanbase compared to a lot of our competitors.
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Home games are still feeble attendance wise compared to Wisky and Iowa, which is a shame because fans will show up for the joke down the street at US Bank. I'll go to a Gophers game anyday. Until we get past that, we'll be considered a fan base that's half in.
 
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Random thought - would it be cheaper to rent a motor home and drive down?

I've never rented a motor home, but I would think the cost of rental and gas is still less than the cost of a plane ticket and hotel room.

Or maybe a family member has a motor home that you could borrow for a few days?
 

BarnBurner said:
Winning games isn't enough, as past reputation is more important, apparently. Traveling fanbase.
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If you haven't read it, I would recommend reading the article posted above.

Winning games isn't irrelevant but, apparently, a one-game difference doesn't determine anything. According to the article, there is a "two-wins rule" where a team two wins below you can't jump you. If we had beaten Illinois, we would have finished 9-3 to PSU's 7-5 and they couldn't have jumped us. Wisconsin probably still would have gone to the Outback since they hadn't been there since 2014 but we likely would have ended up in the Las Vegas bowl. According to the article, the conference tries to avoid repeat matchups which means that Maryland still may have gone to the Pinstripe because of having played West Virginia during the regular season.
 

cjbfbp said:
If you haven't read it, I would recommend reading the article posted above.

Winning games isn't irrelevant but, apparently, a one-game difference doesn't determine anything. According to the article, there is a "two-wins rule" where a team two wins below you can't jump you. If we had beaten Illinois, we would have finished 9-3 to PSU's 7-5 and they couldn't have jumped us. Wisconsin probably still would have gone to the Outback since they hadn't been there since 2014 but we likely would have ended up in the Las Vegas bowl. According to the article, the conference tries to avoid repeat matchups which means that Maryland still may have gone to the Pinstripe because of having played West Virginia during the regular season.
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This would mean that the Citrus could've selected us, since we would've been within one win of Iowa.


Do you buy that? Neither do I. There's more to the story.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Not what I said at all. It is a joke that Penn State got slotted into the Outback over MN, Wis, and Pur. But as I have been saying, there is NOTHING to be gained by the U to go out and bash the conference, or the selection process or act like we got slighted. The job of the U is to put the best spin on it and get as many fans as possible to the game.

Just because the U is not throwing a public temper tantrum about the bowl doesn't mean there are not complaints being lodged behind closed doors, in a professional manner, that doesn't drag anyone through the mud in public. Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Is it disappointing that the selection process played out this way....of course. But we are in a bowl so we make the best of it. Better than the alternative of sitting at home with the season over
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MNVCGUY said:
Not what I said at all. It is a joke that Penn State got slotted into the Outback over MN, Wis, and Pur. But as I have been saying, there is NOTHING to be gained by the U to go out and bash the conference, or the selection process or act like we got slighted. The job of the U is to put the best spin on it and get as many fans as possible to the game.

Just because the U is not throwing a public temper tantrum about the bowl doesn't mean there are not complaints being lodged behind closed doors, in a professional manner, that doesn't drag anyone through the mud in public. Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Is it disappointing that the selection process played out this way....of course. But we are in a bowl so we make the best of it. Better than the alternative of sitting at home with the season over.
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Like others here, I remain bitter about how this played out and I am disappointed in U of M leadership in response. I am not upset at the Guaranteed Rate Bowl nor West Virginia and do not want to suggest we disrespect them and to be clear I appreciate their support of our program.

The B1G choice is their statement that the U of MN is an inferior product despite better win loss metrics that many of us fans think should dictate bowl placement (6-3 > 4-5). I absolutely think U of MN leadership should be transparent with us as fans, alumni, coaches and especially the players on how they are responding to the B1G treating the U of MN as a second (or is it 5th) class member. We as fans, alumni, coaches and players invest in the program. If U of MN leadership wants us to support them, then they need to step up and have these difficult conversations and make it clear they are having them.
 

Some guy said:
Yeah. The conference favors itself. Pretty clear to anyone looking that the 4 teams were all pretty close.

Intra 4 way team breakdown
Minnesota 2-0
Penn state 1-0
Wisconsin 1-2
Purdue 0-2

minnesota played in Outback 2 years ago. Outback had Indiana last year. Outback wanted a big ten name brand and they got it.
Minnesota got jumped by Penn State and Penn state got a little favoritism. I agree. But Penn state lost to Illinois, Ohio state, Michigan state, Michigan, and Iowa….
Minnesota 0-3 vs those 5 teams.

Penn states best 3 wins are wisconsin, auburn, and Maryland

minnesotas are wisconsin, Purdue, and Maryland

Penn states worst two losses are Illinois and Iowa.
minnesotas worst two losses are Illinois and bowling green.


I think Minnesota should’ve gotten it over Penn state but it’s not a clear cut screw job. The teams were close and didn’t play. Penn state worse record but harder SOS by a bit.


Then you have 3 teams for 3 spots and they’re placed based on fit. Minnesota probably preferred Arizona to New York as a location. New York probably preferred an east coast team.
Purdue and Nashville are close. Purdue has the smallest fan base of Purdue, MN, and WI and music city bowl doesn’t need a huge crowd with Tennessee in town. Good fit for both.

Then us or wisconsin for Phoenix or Vegas. Again I wouldn’t be surprised if MN preferred Phoenix for alumni reasons.
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Way too rational....we got screwed....get the pitchforks.... :)
 

corcorangopher said:
Like others here, I remain bitter about how this played out and I am disappointed in U of M leadership in response. I am not upset at the Guaranteed Rate Bowl nor West Virginia and do not want to suggest we disrespect them and to be clear I appreciate their support of our program.

The B1G choice is their statement that the U of MN is an inferior product despite better win loss metrics that many of us fans think should dictate bowl placement (6-3 > 4-5). I absolutely think U of MN leadership should be transparent with us as fans, alumni, coaches and especially the players on how they are responding to the B1G treating the U of MN as a second (or is it 5th) class member. We as fans, alumni, coaches and players invest in the program. If U of MN leadership wants us to support them, then they need to step up and have these difficult conversations and make it clear they are having them.
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Rational and on point.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Random thought - would it be cheaper to rent a motor home and drive down?

I've never rented a motor home, but I would think the cost of rental and gas is still less than the cost of a plane ticket and hotel room.
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All things considered, I don't think it's a viable alternative. I looked up rentals and saw a brand new Winnebago motor home available. The rental price with taxes was $2,240 for five days. Phoenix is about 3,300 miles round trip from Minneapolis. Assuming about 8 miles a gallon and $3.25 per gallon, that's a minimum of $1,340 in gas. So, we're at about $3,600 without considering fees for the RV rental park and parking for the stadium (or uber/cab fare from the RV park). Then, of course, there is the sheer 50+ hours of round trip driving.

You can probably get a decent flight for around $900 and I've seen room rentals within walking distance of the stadium for about $200 per night. So, for two people and three nights those prices would total $2,400, which is only slightly more than the price of the RV rental alone.
 

MplsGopher said:
This would mean that the Citrus could've selected us, since we would've been within one win of Iowa.


Do you buy that? Neither do I. There's more to the story.
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The article didn't say "conference wins." Iowa was two wins overall above us.
 

might be cheaper just to hang out in vegas and basically do a day trip to phx for the game. flights to/from vegas/phx are cheap - maybe even cheaper than the daily rental car rate in vegas. and, you don't have to worry about driving through flagstaff in winter. flagstaff can get heaps of snow.
 

corcorangopher said:
Like others here, I remain bitter about how this played out and I am disappointed in U of M leadership in response. I am not upset at the Guaranteed Rate Bowl nor West Virginia and do not want to suggest we disrespect them and to be clear I appreciate their support of our program.

The B1G choice is their statement that the U of MN is an inferior product despite better win loss metrics that many of us fans think should dictate bowl placement (6-3 > 4-5). I absolutely think U of MN leadership should be transparent with us as fans, alumni, coaches and especially the players on how they are responding to the B1G treating the U of MN as a second (or is it 5th) class member. We as fans, alumni, coaches and players invest in the program. If U of MN leadership wants us to support them, then they need to step up and have these difficult conversations and make it clear they are having them.
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Completely agree. The Big Ten should go to bat for their teams as equally as possible. In the end....the Gophers outperformed Penn State.....and beat the other two 8-4 teams straight up. Penn State has a better "brand" but in the end these teams are made up of 18-22 year old kids. It's a lousy look for the Big Ten to say that the kids donning the PSU helmet are more worthy....regardless of the product on the field.

Obviously nothing is going to change this year. But the Gopher leadership should make their concerns known. Maybe then.....next year or the year after....the script will flip.....and they will try to prove that they aren't playing favorites. Or at least the Big Ten brass will maybe not pull something like this again.
 

corcorangopher said:
Like others here, I remain bitter about how this played out and I am disappointed in U of M leadership in response. I am not upset at the Guaranteed Rate Bowl nor West Virginia and do not want to suggest we disrespect them and to be clear I appreciate their support of our program.

The B1G choice is their statement that the U of MN is an inferior product despite better win loss metrics that many of us fans think should dictate bowl placement (6-3 > 4-5). I absolutely think U of MN leadership should be transparent with us as fans, alumni, coaches and especially the players on how they are responding to the B1G treating the U of MN as a second (or is it 5th) class member. We as fans, alumni, coaches and players invest in the program. If U of MN leadership wants us to support them, then they need to step up and have these difficult conversations and make it clear they are having them.
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So how do you propose the U make it clear to fans they feel they got disrespected/screwed by the conference without disrespecting the current bowl or making themselves look even more unattractive to future bowl destinations?
 

MNVCGUY said:
So how do you propose the U make it clear to fans they feel they got disrespected/screwed by the conference without disrespecting the current bowl or making themselves look even more unattractive to future bowl destinations?
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Stick to facts and wait til the bowl game is over.
 

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