Gophers in N Alabama transfer Daniel Ortiz top 6

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I can’t say I know much about Ortiz but I don’t mind the idea of using one spot on a smaller guard with quickness
 







Gopher_In_NYC said:
Nice stroke
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This is the kind of kid they might be able to get. He is an undersized kid for the 2G position who is quick with a good stroke and a crafty ability to finish. Get him in a rotation of Gs including Carrington, Mitchell, Christie, all with good length and then Ortiz. Then if you want to go big you can go JOJ at the 3.... Or dare I say Ihnen or Betts without getting "blanketed with bad weather?" :)

Then get the coach's kid, a defensive big and give one to Ramberg or Reader
 

It looks like he can shoot a little bit, he plays hard (averaging almost 4 rebs per game despite being 6'0") and he can shoot. I am perfectly happy with one of our scholarships going to him.

I probably would prefer this scholarship go to Tibbets than Ortiz - similar kind of players - but Ortiz makes sense and is probably the safer option.

Note - I realize there is zero indication we are interested in Tibbets. I just thought they seem like somewhat similar type of players.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It looks like he can shoot a little bit, he plays hard (averaging almost 4 rebs per game despite being 6'0") and he can shoot. I am perfectly happ.y with one of our scholarships going to him.

I probably would prefer this scholarship go to Tibbets than Ortiz - similar kind of players - but Ortiz makes sense and is probably the safer option.

Note - I realize there is zero indication we are interested in Tibbets. I just thought they seem like somewhat similar type of players.
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Your boy is going to UST as a walk on.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
Your boy is going to UST as a walk on.
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My boy? LOL. I have no connection to Wayzata, no connection to him or his family. I just think he's kind of good at basketball and I think we're pretty bad at basketball. So yep, I'm fully aware he is getting a chance to play at a program that currently has WAY better guards than we have.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
I probably would prefer this scholarship go to Tibbets than Ortiz - similar kind of players - but Ortiz makes sense and is probably the safer option.
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The only freshman that Ben Johnson should even consider recruiting at this time of year would be one of stature who has de-committed. The focus of spring recruiting is experienced transfers who have shown something in college already. Ben Johnson has to have the George Allen philosophy: "The future is now!" Most of these players he's offering appear to be sophomores who've already had their adjustment periods and have two years of eligibility remaining.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It looks like he can shoot a little bit, he plays hard (averaging almost 4 rebs per game despite being 6'0") and he can shoot. I am perfectly happy with one of our scholarships going to him.

I probably would prefer this scholarship go to Tibbets than Ortiz - similar kind of players - but Ortiz makes sense and is probably the safer option.

Note - I realize there is zero indication we are interested in Tibbets. I just thought they seem like somewhat similar type of players.
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Ben isn’t in any sort of position to not take the safer option lol.
 

cjbfbp said:
The only freshman that Ben Johnson should even consider recruiting at this time of year would be one of stature who has de-committed. The focus of spring recruiting is experienced transfers who have shown something in college already. Ben Johnson has to have the George Allen philosophy: "The future is now!" Most of these players he's offering appear to be sophomores who've already had their adjustment periods and have two years of eligibility remaining.
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I agree that should be the focus, especially given his situation (likely needing to win in the next 1-2 years).

That said, I don't think we will get the pick of the litter from the decommits and I would be pleasantly shocked if we are able to efficiently utilize our remaining scholarships on portal guys.

So I'd much rather take a flyer on a less-recruited HS player who could grow into something. I was the same way on Alonzo Dodd last year and while it looks like I was probably wrong, I think I would have rather had every single Samuels minute with Cooper going to Dodd last year and he could be growing into something more. Now, Dodd had an unimpressive FR season at a smaller school. So I admit, I was probably wrong on him, but we'll see what Dodd does this year.

My point is that if string out the replacement of that scholarship, I don't think we get more production.
 

GoldenMAV30266 said:
Ben isn’t in any sort of position to not take the safer option lol.
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Yeah, this is a good point. Ben likely has an abbreviated timeline.

I'll just be interested to see how all of these scholarships end up getting used.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
So I'd much rather take a flyer on a less-recruited HS player who could grow into something. I was the same way on Alonzo Dodd last year and while it looks like I was probably wrong, I think I would have rather had every single Samuels minute with Cooper going to Dodd last year and he could be growing into something more. Now, Dodd had an unimpressive FR season at a smaller school. So I admit, I was probably wrong on him, but we'll see what Dodd does this year.
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I guess people will ridicule Ben Johnson for the Taurus Samuels recruitment for the indefinite future but I think it's fair to take a closer look at the likely decision making that went into that. It appears that Johnson was recruiting two things with that choice:

1) a backup point guard who would play limited minutes of the bench; and

2) a recruit that would be around only one year (so the scholarship would be available for the following year).

I look at the portal very closely and check out the numbers and histories of players in it on a continuous basis. Based on my observations, I think it's pretty difficult (especially for a program like ours) to find a 5th year point guard who would be satisfied with playing limited minutes off the bench. Most of these types of players have impressive enough resumes that they would be looking for a starting position or something close or at least want to play for a very likely winner (especially since this is the last shot at college basketball for them).

On paper, I think Samuels was a reasonable choice under the criteria listed above. The problems with Samuels were:

1) He underperformed even the meager expectations; and

2) He played more than he should have. This is where I blame Ben Johnson for his failure to recruit another experienced guard (and one of higher stature than Samuels) from the portal. When Carrington was hurt and then eventually out for a month was when Samuels played his highest concentration of minutes because the team had only three true guards at that point. If the team would have had one more decent guard, he wouldn't have played so much.
 

cjbfbp said:
I guess people will ridicule Ben Johnson for the Taurus Samuels recruitment for the indefinite future but I think it's fair to take a closer look at the likely decision making that went into that. It appears that Johnson was recruiting two things with that choice:

1) a backup point guard who would play limited minutes of the bench; and

2) a recruit that would be around only one year (so the scholarship would be available for the following year).

I look at the portal very closely and check out the numbers and histories of players in it on a continuous basis. Based on my observations, I think it's pretty difficult (especially for a program like ours) to find a 5th year point guard who would be satisfied with playing limited minutes off the bench. Most of these types of players have impressive enough resumes that they would be looking for a starting position or something close or at least want to play for a very likely winner (especially since this is the last shot at college basketball for them).

On paper, I think Samuels was a reasonable choice under the criteria listed above. The problems with Samuels were:

1) He underperformed even the meager expectations; and

2) He played more than he should have. This is where I blame Ben Johnson for his failure to recruit another experienced guard (and one of higher stature than Samuels) from the portal. When Carrington was hurt and then eventually out for a month was when Samuels played his highest concentration of minutes because the team had only three true guards at that point. If the team would have had one more decent guard, he wouldn't have played so much.
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My main issue with this reasoning was that we did have a starting position to offer. We had one (1) guard with college experience under his belt at the time of Samuels committing.

My only guess is that Ben promised Henley and Carrington significant playing time right off the bat, thought Ihnen could play the 2, and didn't feel like he could bring in a vet to take away minutes from them. Turns out Henley was not a guard, Carrington was hurt and not ready to contribute from day 1, and Ihnen was hurt.
 

eker0016 said:
My main issue with this reasoning was that we did have a starting position to offer. We had one (1) guard with college experience under his belt at the time of Samuels committing.

My only guess is that Ben promised Henley and Carrington significant playing time right off the bat, thought Ihnen could play the 2, and didn't feel like he could bring in a vet to take away minutes from them. Turns out Henley was not a guard, Carrington was hurt and not ready to contribute from day 1, and Ihnen was hurt.
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I agree and I think you're probably right about assurances made to those players. In each of his first two offseason, Johnson fell one player short in his offseason portal recruiting. The first year, he failed to get another transfer forward of decent ability so we had to rely on a physically limited Curry, a very talent limited Charlie Daniels, and a freshman who wasn't ready. In his second offseason, he failed to recruit another decent experienced guard so we had to rely too much on a very lmited Samuels and a struggling Henley.

I hope the coach is capable of learning (but I'm not confident). Battle, Cooper, and Henley all played more minutes than they should have this season. Johnson played them about as much as he could and they all left anyway. No coach was ever fired because the 11th or 12th man wasn't happy but countless numbers of coaches have been fired for poor performance due in part to lack of quality depth in the roster.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
He's a backup at best who can provide good shooting off of the bench. If he's recruited for anything more, then Johnson might as well quit now.
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Everybody is "recruited" (in the portal they are actually offered, not recruited) to come in and compete for playing time. It would be stupid to tell any player he has no chance to be a starter.
 

cjbfbp said:
I agree and I think you're probably right about assurances made to those players. In each of his first two offseason, Johnson fell one player short in his offseason portal recruiting. The first year, he failed to get another transfer forward of decent ability so we had to rely on a physically limited Curry, a very talent limited Charlie Daniels, and a freshman who wasn't ready. In his second offseason, he failed to recruit another decent experienced guard so we had to rely too much on a very lmited Samuels and a struggling Henley.

I hope the coach is capable of learning (but I'm not confident). Battle, Cooper, and Henley all played more minutes than they should have this season. Johnson played them about as much as he could and they all left anyway. No coach was ever fired because the 11th or 12th man wasn't happy but countless numbers of coaches have been fired for poor performance due in part to lack of quality depth in the roster.
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Agree with all of this. I'm not particularly confident either...I think he needs to sell more guys on the vision of playing time, and then not feel bad when an inferior player is unhappy and transfers. I would much rather have that than the games where we only have 6 scholarship players suiting up and starting walk-ons.
 

GoldenMAV30266 said:
Why not. Kid shoots 40% from 3. It’ll be a great conversation When he chooses Tulane over MN
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So did Abdule Thiam. This isn't a very inspiring offer list and Austin Peay is probably lurking. But we have a lot of open scholarships so bring him on I guess.
 

howeda7 said:
So did Abdule Thiam. This isn't a very inspiring offer list and Austin Peay is probably lurking. But we have a lot of open scholarships so bring him on I guess.
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Thiam played at a community college and was still only a freshman. North Alabama is small, but they still played against some bigger schools.

Ortiz has seen much better competition than Thiam
 


cjbfbp said:
I guess people will ridicule Ben Johnson for the Taurus Samuels recruitment for the indefinite future but I think it's fair to take a closer look at the likely decision making that went into that. It appears that Johnson was recruiting two things with that choice:

1) a backup point guard who would play limited minutes of the bench; and

2) a recruit that would be around only one year (so the scholarship would be available for the following year).

I look at the portal very closely and check out the numbers and histories of players in it on a continuous basis. Based on my observations, I think it's pretty difficult (especially for a program like ours) to find a 5th year point guard who would be satisfied with playing limited minutes off the bench. Most of these types of players have impressive enough resumes that they would be looking for a starting position or something close or at least want to play for a very likely winner (especially since this is the last shot at college basketball for them).

On paper, I think Samuels was a reasonable choice under the criteria listed above. The problems with Samuels were:

1) He underperformed even the meager expectations; and

2) He played more than he should have. This is where I blame Ben Johnson for his failure to recruit another experienced guard (and one of higher stature than Samuels) from the portal. When Carrington was hurt and then eventually out for a month was when Samuels played his highest concentration of minutes because the team had only three true guards at that point. If the team would have had one more decent guard, he wouldn't have played so much.
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I didn't ridicule Ben for Taurus Samuels - he was needed. We needed another ball handler and he provided some depth at the position. I just had a preference of a FR (with potentially more upside) than a 1 year player who likely won't be a big contributor. But I can certainly see why Ben added him.

My point was actually an argument against your second point. If we continually have to use scholarships on Samuels types, then there isn't a benefit to stringing three years of these types in lieu of adding a FR.
 

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