GOPHERS HIRING BEN JOHNSON

[Wally]

Dude, at the risk of being argumentative, why can't both be true? It could very well have been a largely diversity hire and still turn out to be a great, great hire, right?

Like, if I marry my wife because she was smoking hot, and she turns out to be a good wife and a good cook, that doesn't mean I didn't marry her mostly because she was smoking hot.

I just want to enjoy this as long as we can! These guys are fun to watch and today was flat out AWESOME!! Great job!!

Even dummies get lucky sometimes....

 

[MplsGopher]

Question to the false gloaters (chiefly, Votary and stocker, but probably others as well):

what is the maximum you're willing to risk that the Gophers make the dance this year, based on what you know in this moment?

My guess is, you aren't willing to risk any more than you risked at the time of the announcement or when the roster construction was complete: nothing. Not a single dime. You didn't then, and you aren't now.


Which is correct. Then and now.


The Miss St and Michigan results are fantastic. They should be celebrated by everyone. No one expected them. Because of course they didn't.


But they don't prove a single thing. About this season, or about how it will go under BJ in the long run.

They could be the first key pieces of evidence that we've hit the jackpot. Certainly everyone hopes so. But we don't have even close to a clue about that, yet. Far more evidence is needed, to be a true gloater. You're just faking it, for now.

 

[MplsGopher]

This hire is Tim Brewster.

Hiring for recruiting potential, above all else.

No one should expect results that are anything different.

This post was correct when it was made.


It is still correct, now.


Because it specifically uses the word expect. Which implies trying to make a guess based on limited evidence and probabilities.


Hiring a head coach with no HC experience, who is supposedly a hot shot recruiter, is exactly why Tim Brewster was hired. So that was correct.


And it was correct to talk about low expectations.


Ben Johnson was a dice roll, by Coyle. I don't know if him doing well here was a 1 in 100, 1 in 1000, or 1 in 10,000 type of odds. But it was something like that.


It could be that we got lucky as hell and have hit the jackpot. Such things do happen.

 

[ethomasp31]

Question to the false gloaters (chiefly, Votary and stocker, but probably others as well):

what is the maximum you're willing to risk that the Gophers make the dance this year, based on what you know in this moment?

My guess is, you aren't willing to risk any more than you risked at the time of the announcement or when the roster construction was complete: nothing. Not a single dime. You didn't then, and you aren't now.


Which is correct. Then and now.


The Miss St and Michigan results are fantastic. They should be celebrated by everyone. No one expected them. Because of course they didn't.


But they don't prove a single thing. About this season, or about how it will go under BJ in the long run.

They could be the first key pieces of evidence that we've hit the jackpot. Certainly everyone hopes so. But we don't have even close to a clue about that, yet. Far more evidence is needed, to be a true gloater. You're just faking it, for now.

What do you mean by risk?

 

[RogueGopher]

Question to the false gloaters (chiefly, Votary and stocker, but probably others as well):

what is the maximum you're willing to risk that the Gophers make the dance this year, based on what you know in this moment?

My guess is, you aren't willing to risk any more than you risked at the time of the announcement or when the roster construction was complete: nothing. Not a single dime. You didn't then, and you aren't now.


Which is correct. Then and now.


The Miss St and Michigan results are fantastic. They should be celebrated by everyone. No one expected them. Because of course they didn't.


But they don't prove a single thing. About this season, or about how it will go under BJ in the long run.

They could be the first key pieces of evidence that we've hit the jackpot. Certainly everyone hopes so. But we don't have even close to a clue about that, yet. Far more evidence is needed, to be a true gloater. You're just faking it, for now.

Winning on the road against power conference opponents doesn't prove anything? Seriously? They were double digit underdogs both times and are able to overcome size disadvantages almost every single game. They don't look worse than many of the teams being projected to make the tournament right now.

 

[ethomasp31]

This post was correct when it was made.


It is still correct, now.


Because it specifically uses the word expect. Which implies trying to make a guess based on limited evidence and probabilities.


Hiring a head coach with no HC experience, who is supposedly a hot shot recruiter, is exactly why Tim Brewster was hired. So that was correct.


And it was correct to talk about low expectations.


Ben Johnson was a dice roll, by Coyle. I don't know if him doing well here was a 1 in 100, 1 in 1000, or 1 in 10,000 type of odds. But it was something like that.


It could be that we got lucky as hell and have hit the jackpot. Such things do happen.

Question for you....have you ever talked to high school coaches....you know who have players that the Gophers have recruited or are recruiting? Have you ever talked to any players they are recruiting or have recruited?

 

[MplsGopher]

What do you mean by risk?

Seemed pretty obvious from the rest of the words I was talking monetary. Wager. IE, actually prove that you walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

 

[MplsGopher]

Winning on the road against power conference opponents doesn't prove anything? Seriously?

Two games proves how the rest of the season is going to go? Seriously?

It might ... but more likely, it may not.

That's mainly what I was saying.

They were double digit underdogs both times and are able to overcome size disadvantages almost every single game.

And that's obviously outstanding.


So you think things are perfectly stationary, for the rest of the year?


No opposing coaching staffs are going to figure out how we were able to pull that off, and try to adjust to prevent us from doing that to them?

There's just nothing they can do about it, and they just have to let us do to them exactly what we did to Miss St and Michigan? For the rest of the year.

 

[MplsGopher]

Question for you....have you ever talked to high school coaches....you know who have players that the Gophers have recruited or are recruiting? Have you ever talked to any players they are recruiting or have recruited?

Just come to the actual point you want to make. No need for set up. We aren't professionals here.

Lay your cards on the table. What is your point?

 

[RogueGopher]

Two games proves how the rest of the season is going to go? Seriously?

It might ... but more likely, it may not.

That's mainly what I was saying.


And that's obviously outstanding.


So you think things are perfectly stationary, for the rest of the year?


No opposing coaching staffs are going to figure out how we were able to pull that off, and try to adjust to prevent us from doing that to them?

There's just nothing they can do about it, and they just have to let us do to them exactly what we did to Miss St and Michigan? For the rest of the year.

So what's you're reason for why they will suck the rest of these season. Because the can't possibly keep playing well.? What have you seen that screams this team is a fraud?

 

[ethomasp31]

Seemed pretty obvious from the rest of the words I was talking monetary. Wager. IE, actually prove that you walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

I honestly don't like to bet on sports.....at least ones I'm not playing....so none. We can bet on a round of golf if you like?

 

[MplsGopher]

So what's you're reason for why they will suck the rest of these season. Because the can't possibly keep playing well.? What have you seen that screams this team is a fraud?

Huh??

No. You're going all the way to the opposite extreme, and that's not at all what I am saying.


I don't think they are frauds or will "suck" the rest of the year. It is possible to lose games without either of those being true, right?

 

[ecoperson]

This post was correct when it was made.


It is still correct, now.


Because it specifically uses the word expect. Which implies trying to make a guess based on limited evidence and probabilities.


Hiring a head coach with no HC experience, who is supposedly a hot shot recruiter, is exactly why Tim Brewster was hired. So that was correct.


And it was correct to talk about low expectations.


Ben Johnson was a dice roll, by Coyle. I don't know if him doing well here was a 1 in 100, 1 in 1000, or 1 in 10,000 type of odds. But it was something like that.


It could be that we got lucky as hell and have hit the jackpot. Such things do happen.

Comparing Ben to Brewster in coaching is like comparing Ben Hur to Punky Brewster in cinema.

Brewster was a TE coach for over 15 years in both college and the NFL. A position coach in football is much more specialized and not usually involved in high-level team operations and game planning.... even more RARELY on game day.

Ben, on the other hand, was one of 3 assistant coaches on high-level D-I college basketball teams for about the same length of time. Assistants play a HUGE role in team operations and game planning and IN-GAME coaching. Ben was likely considered the lead assistant at Xavier so he was even closer to the level of a head coach.

I am an eternal optimist but tournament talk for this team this early in the season IS likely a bit premature. But there is no need to drag everyone down with rehashing points made in March. There is NO denying that things have gone exceptionally well.

Now head back over to the OTB to make more enemies over there!

 

[MplsGopher]

Brewster was a TE coach for over 15 years in both college and the NFL. A position coach in football is much more specialized and not usually involved in high-level team operations and game planning.... even more RARELY on game day.

Ben, on the other hand, was one of 3 assistant coaches on high-level D-I college basketball teams for about the same length of time. Assistants play a HUGE role in team operations and game planning and IN-GAME coaching. Ben was likely considered the lead assistant at Xavier so he was even closer to the level of a head coach.

See, this is a textbook example of what an actual, logical counter-argument looks like.

Well done. You got me, here.

My only counter to that is: then why was he never hired for a HC job, yet? You don't have to be actively looking for one, for someone to recognize your potential and "head hunt" you for an open position. So it's not necessarily just that he was turned down my Montana State and Northern Illinois. It's also, why didn't someone come up to him and say "hey, you should really consider applying for that open Wright State job, I think you'd do really well over there based on your work here at Xavier!"

I am an eternal optimist but tournament talk for this team this early in the season IS likely a bit premature. But there is no need to drag everyone down with rehashing points made in March. There is NO denying that things have gone exceptionally well.

Agree they have gone far above expectations. No one can deny that.

Just as no one can, nor will if being honest, deny how low the expectations were.


The only reason I'm rehashing, is because a couple people have made the choice to falsely gloat and declare victory, over two wins with 18 Big Ten games left to go.

Now head back over to the OTB to make more enemies over there!

 

[MplsGopher]

No surprise, Votary didn't have the nutsack to respond.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Winning on the road against power conference opponents doesn't prove anything? Seriously? They were double digit underdogs both times and are able to overcome size disadvantages almost every single game. They don't look worse than many of the teams being projected to make the tournament right now.

Don't waste your time. He's that constant talker who likes to hear (read) himself...asks and answers his own questions in the same post. Constantly pats himself on the back. You know the type...

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Don't waste your time. He's that constant talker who likes to hear (read) himself...asks and answers his own questions in the same post. Constantly pats himself on the back. You know the type...

Not everyone has figured out the schtick yet, but it's still baffling when someone bites on the bait

 

[jovs]

See, this is a textbook example of what an actual, logical counter-argument looks like.

Well done. You got me, here.

My only counter to that is: then why was he never hired for a HC job, yet? You don't have to be actively looking for one, for someone to recognize your potential and "head hunt" you for an open position. So it's not necessarily just that he was turned down my Montana State and Northern Illinois. It's also, why didn't someone come up to him and say "hey, you should really consider applying for that open Wright State job, I think you'd do really well over there based on your work here at Xavier!"


Agree they have gone far above expectations. No one can deny that.

Just as no one can, nor will if being honest, deny how low the expectations were.


The only reason I'm rehashing, is because a couple people have made the choice to falsely gloat and declare victory, over two wins with 18 Big Ten games left to go.

They play smart, well disciplined basketball, may not be the most athletic but they are always competing and have shown they can play with much more skilled and athletic teams. They may lose a lot of close games and not be on the bubble at the end of the year but it looks like they are going to be in the mix in most games. It sure looks like it is time to be optimistic.

 

[Slim Tubby]

Question to the false gloaters (chiefly, Votary and stocker, but probably others as well):

what is the maximum you're willing to risk that the Gophers make the dance this year, based on what you know in this moment?

My guess is, you aren't willing to risk any more than you risked at the time of the announcement or when the roster construction was complete: nothing. Not a single dime. You didn't then, and you aren't now.


Which is correct. Then and now.


The Miss St and Michigan results are fantastic. They should be celebrated by everyone. No one expected them. Because of course they didn't.


But they don't prove a single thing. About this season, or about how it will go under BJ in the long run.

They could be the first key pieces of evidence that we've hit the jackpot. Certainly everyone hopes so. But we don't have even close to a clue about that, yet. Far more evidence is needed, to be a true gloater. You're just faking it, for now.

Holy shit. Sit back, make a cocktail or pour a glass of wine, and sit back and enjoy what has been very good basketball up to this point.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Mpls - on the Brewster argument - one huge difference

Ben Johnson is a former Gopher assistant coach and knows the state of MN. he has existing ties with HS and AAU coaches in the state. i.e. "insider"

Tim Brewster had no ties or experience with MN when he was hired. i.e. "outsider"

And at least some of us hope and feel that Johnson's ties to the state give him a better chance of long-term success.

Of course, he has to show results. This season is a small sample size, but up to this point, the team has exceeded expectations.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Mpls - on the Brewster argument - one huge difference

Ben Johnson is a former Gopher assistant coach and knows the state of MN. he has existing ties with HS and AAU coaches in the state. i.e. "insider"

Tim Brewster had no ties or experience with MN when he was hired. i.e. "outsider"

And at least some of us hope and feel that Johnson's ties to the state give him a better chance of long-term success.

Of course, he has to show results. This season is a small sample size, but up to this point, the team has exceeded expectations.

You're not wrong, but I would argue another huge difference is how each person selected their staff. Johnson was smart enough to bring in some really experienced asst coaches. I actually thought Brewster had some kind of a shot but his problem in large part was continuity and continuity of staff. He just kept changing assistants, often with that changing systems, and the program was all over the place. Zero plan.

Great leaders know their own strengths and weaknesses and Johnson had the smarts to put together a really really experienced staff. Don't forget, as much of a complete buffoon Lovie Smith was, when he was with the Bears he had 3 former NFL Head Coaches on his staff when he went to the SB.

Ben had a plan and he stuck to it.

 

[TurfGopher]

winning two road games against quality opponents proves we can beat quality opponents..on ..the...road...something that is hard to do in college basketball. Which is well documented by Pitino's away record. Watching the team this season you can see the amount of defense, ball movement, hustle, and grit this team has shown so far. With a rag tag cast of non P5 players nonetheless! BJ hasn't been crowned the king of Gopher BBall after going 8-1, he is just being accepted as a good hire who has an excellent upside. Maybe Coyle knows what he's doing and has great instincts?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

winning two road games against quality opponents proves we can beat quality opponents..on ..the...road...something that is hard to do in college basketball. Which is well documented by Pitino's away record. Watching the team this season you can see the amount of defense, ball movement, hustle, and grit this team has shown so far. With a rag tag cast of non P5 players nonetheless! BJ hasn't been crowned the king of Gopher BBall after going 8-1, he is just being accepted as a good hire who has an excellent upside. Maybe Coyle knows what he's doing and has great instincts?

Absolutely! I think Coyle has done a pretty damn good job up to this point and has put the Athletic Department in a much better place than it was when he arrived on campus. Hard not to like where the BB, FB and hockey programs are right now!

Fun being a UMN sports fan right now!

 

[MplsGopher]

Holy shit. Sit back, make a cocktail or pour a glass of wine, and sit back and enjoy what has been very good basketball up to this point.

I am! Which is part of my argument. You misunderstood.

 

[MplsGopher]

You know the type...

The type that wins the arguments, because you can't think of a better counter-argument.

Yes, that type.

 

[MplsGopher]

Mpls - on the Brewster argument - one huge difference

Ben Johnson is a former Gopher assistant coach and knows the state of MN. he has existing ties with HS and AAU coaches in the state. i.e. "insider"

Tim Brewster had no ties or experience with MN when he was hired. i.e. "outsider"

And at least some of us hope and feel that Johnson's ties to the state give him a better chance of long-term success.

Of course, he has to show results. This season is a small sample size, but up to this point, the team has exceeded expectations.

Another good, fair point.

 

[MplsGopher]

Ben had a plan and he stuck to it.

Comparing Brewster, over four years, to Ben over a few months, and declaring that Ben is sticking to the plan better.

Brewster planned to change the staff up every year?? Someone could argue that he should've done a better job at how he reacted the changes, that is fine.


What if Thorson gets an offer he can't refuse, or has a sudden health issue? Knock on wood. You don't plan for such things. Life and business happen.

 

[MplsGopher]

winning two road games against quality opponents proves we can beat quality opponents..on ..the...road...something that is hard to do in college basketball.

Doing it once or twice is not doing it over a season, though, is it? And that's the actual thing, that actually matters.

 

[Fan of Ray Christensen]

They play smart, well disciplined basketball, may not be the most athletic but they are always competing and have shown they can play with much more skilled and athletic teams. They may lose a lot of close games and not be on the bubble at the end of the year but it looks like they are going to be in the mix in most games. It sure looks like it is time to be optimistic.

I agree, the way they play can be repeated throughout the year. Unlike last year's 102-95 upset of Iowa where Brandon Johnson went 8/9 from 3 and totaled 26 points. Everyone watching that game knew it was an unsustainable formula for success.

I do disagree a little on the belief that the Gophers are lacking in athleticism. From what I've seen, they are athetic enough to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.

For example, Loewe's 2nd half base line drive that ended with a reverse lay up--he exploited Michigan for over-extending to guard the 3 point line. Just smart basketball.

 

[TurfGopher]

Doing it once or twice is not doing it over a season, though, is it? And that's the actual thing, that actually matters.

Nobody is arguing they have had sustained success, they are merely overperforming their expectations. The Gophers have impressed the fanbase and given us hope they will win some more big ten games, that was a tall order a couple weeks ago. Just admit you were wrong about the Ben Johnson hire.