GOPHERS HIRING BEN JOHNSON

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Gold Vision said:
Well he better crush this deep 2022 in-state class. It’s his best chance at jump starting the program. Not much else to get excited about with this hire...
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Most of the story will be told during the year 2021 spring and fall recruiting. No margin here. He must get off to a great start recruiting and get some wind in his sails.
 


Short time lurker. Created this account a few days ago for the sole purpose of proposing John Becker/Vermont as next head coach. Figured that'd be small-timed by the gallery, so passed on the proposal. In hindsight... ... ...
 

bga1 said:
Most of the story will be told during the year 2021 spring and fall recruiting. No margin here. He must get off to a great start recruiting and get some wind in his sails.
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Very true. If we're off to a rough start under Johnson it is going to be a massively up hill battle.
 

Mikie S said:
Izzo, Painter, Holtmann, Underwood, Turgeon, McCaffery, Gard, Pikiell, Howard

Does anyone really believe Ben Johnson belongs in that group?
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This is the problem, I feel bad for Ben. If he doesn’t come out of the gates on fire, the momentum will never let him recover. There won’t be many high level recruits that will have him rated higher than those coaches. I hope not, but this could get ugly fast.
 


MplsGopher said:
Build relationship$.

No, but honestly ... what does this actually mean???

It seems like something that is casually thrown out, like it’s as fundamental as having practice.

What does it mean? What are examples of “good” relationship building, vs “bad”?
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Like it or not, the AAU coaches think that they are the center of the universe. The AAU programs with the all-star teams and playing in the national tournaments are where a lot of the real high-profile recruiting takes place. You may make first contact with kids in HS, but you close the deal during the AAU season.

And - like it or not, the top AAU coaches in MN think that the Gophers are not paying them the "respect" they deserve. And if the AAU coaches get down on a program, they are not going to encourage their players to consider that program. in a lot of cases, the AAU coaches have more influence on players than the HS coaches, because AAU takes place in the summer, kids are not in school and spend all of their free time with their AAU teams.

So, if you want to land the top AAU kids, you have to kiss some big-time butt. From what is being reported, sounds like Pitino didn't want to play that game. and Pitino supposedly "dissing" McKinley Wright really put him behind the 8-ball with the AAU scene.
 


NWMetroGopherFan said:
You can't just "take away" Oturu and Coffey and do recruiting rankings, the real world doesn't work that. way. They've both been vocal today about how big a hire this is for Minnesota. Richard Coffey flat out said Ben is the only reason Amir was a Gopher. Johnson was also responsible for Murphy and Gabe Kalscheur. That stuff matters.

Pitino's downfall was the inability to consistently connect and build relationships with local high school and AAU programs. That's one of Ben Johnson's biggest strengths.

His biggest challenge is clear: He's never been a head coach, and now you have to take the talent you can recruit and develop it. Consecutive top 30 classes can't be ignored, regardless of how they panned out.

It sounds like the first 2 commits are likely to be Parker Fox and Jamison Battle. Dawson Garcia is rumored to be leaving Marquette, and there's steam that he's coming home. There's even whispers with Race Thompson.

How about we give him 2 years to see what he can do before throwing him out to the trash? This board is absurd today. I'm one of the very few who thinks this can really work.
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That is fine. Put them back in his rankings. He is a top 70 recruiter.
This board has an appropriate response to Ben Johnson. This is a high risk hire. You can't blame people for being upset for hiring a guy that we probably could have had as an associate head coach if we made the right head coach hire.
 

Coyle gets paid a lot of money to make these decisions and you can be sure that he consulted his boss before the deal was done.
There were at least two variables, one was who wanted the job and the second was is there enough money to hire a more experienced candidate.
These are hard times.
 



Tvans022 said:
Let me guess. You were on the Les Miles bandwagon for Football? Winning solves revenue issues. A splashy name is a band aid.
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No guarantee that Ben wins or even knows how to coach with his zero HC experience....I guarantee you the guys I wanted all had coaching experience and established winning programs.....Comparing the Johnson hire to Fleck is ridiculous....PJ had head coaching experience and knew how to run a successful program when he got here.
 

Go Gophs said:
The U has done such a fantastic job with their athletics department. We have been the butt of Big Ten jokes now in sports that matter for nearly 3 decades
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Well when you put it like that, maybe adding Rutgers to the Big Ten wasn’t such a bad idea after all.
 

Go Gophs said:
The U has done such a fantastic job with their athletics department. We have been the butt of Big Ten jokes now in sports that matter for nearly 3 decades
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Coyle should have asked you what you thought then. When he hired Fleck....he should have listened to Go Gophs and hired Nick Saban instead. Gopherhole has D1 athletic director material everywhere!!!
 




stocker08 said:
Coyle should have asked you what you thought then. When he hired Fleck....he should have listened to Go Gophs and hired Nick Saban instead. Gopherhole has D1 athletic director material everywhere!!!
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Explain to me how those who like the hire are any more knowledgeable about the inner workings of an athletic department than those who dislike it.

And I hope your answer is better than because that is the side that I am on.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Thank you for proving my point!

Dean Smith was a coach in the Army. I know that might sound strange but it was pretty high level basketball 60 years ago. You know, cause Dean Smith was hired 60 Fing years ago.
Roy Williams was a top assistant for one of the nations top programs for 10 seasons. He was also hired 33 years ago.
Jim Boehim was hired 45 F'ing years ago. He was also an assistant AT Syracuse where their coach left for another job. He was promoted from within.
John Thompson was hired 49 F'ing years ago. He was a prominent HS coach in DC for years and a former NBA player.
Tom Izzo - Again, you are (i hope intentionally) not differentiating the difference of promoting a long time assistant to HC. He was an assistant coach at Michigan State for 12 years prior to becoming a HC. He coached for another legend at Michigan State.
Mark Few - Great coach. He was a strong assistant for a successful coach. Gonzaga was a slightly good mid-major job when he took it (the kind of job that would have made sense for Ben Johnson).
Juwan Howard - Huge name recognition and a 6 year NBA assistant.
Phil Jackson - You're wrong
Steve Kerr - He was an NBA General Manager before becoming a coach. LOL.
Tubby Smith- Yeah, he had a great career. I'm not sure what your point is here. By the way, Tubby went from an assistant coach, to a coach of a mid-major (Tulsa), to a coach of P6 type program (Georgia), to a blue blood (Kentucky). You know. . . the expected trajectory of a successful coaching career.

I don't care if you're over the resume talk. It's THE issue with Ben Johnson. He doesn't have the resume you would look for. What an idiotic comment. You're over people talking about the qualifications (resume) of the person who was hired. LOL.

Look at how you had to squint to try to find examples to prove your point. People who were GMs in the NBA, longtime assistants at their school, and people you were flat-out wrong about.

I have no idea if Ben Johnson will be good or not. I am genuinely stoked to hear that people like him. But make no mistake, that excitement is DESPITE THE FACT that he doesn't have the requisite resume. The resume isn't the only thing that matters.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply to this original thread. Glad you pointed out the holes that were obviously overlooked. Hell, at least Izzo coached HS for a year. You’ve made a lot of solid points in this thread Bob.
 

GopherGangsta said:
No guarantee that Ben wins or even knows how to coach with his zero HC experience....I guarantee you the guys I wanted all had coaching experience and established winning programs.....Comparing the Johnson hire to Fleck is ridiculous....PJ had head coaching experience and knew how to run a successful program when he got here.
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Don’t put words in my mouth. I never once compared Johnson to Fleck. My point was about you talking about selling tickets. And you ignored that point in your response. The point is winning games sells tickets a flashy hire is a band aid. Point still remains.
 

WoodburyTim said:
Explain to me how those who like the hire are any more knowledgeable about the inner workings of an athletic department than those who dislike it.

And I hope your answer is better than because that is the side that I am on.
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Huh? I think the difference here is that I am not bashing the pick of a guy who's been the athletic director at multiple D1 schools and made this hire.

But please tell me why you, WoodburyTim, and the other bashers are actually more qualified to make the pick and should be hired as the athletic directors. You guys are the ones acting like you are "more knowledgeable about the inner workings of an athletic department" than Coyle.

Or here's a better idea.....shut up and let the guy who was hired to make these decisions do his job.
 

Tvans022 said:
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never once compared Johnson to Fleck. My point was about you talking about selling tickets. And you ignored that point in your response. The point is winning games sells tickets a flashy hire is a band aid. Point still remains.
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And my point remains ....No one has any idea if Ben is going to be a winning coach because he has never been a coach before....I can guarantee the level of success needed to pack Williams arena will not happen next year or the year after....At least an established name puts people in seats for a couple years without a great amount of winning.
 
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According to WCCOs Mike Maxx the other potential waite were Sam Mitchell, Ben Jacobson, and Craig Smith.
 


stocker08 said:
Huh? I think the difference here is that I am not bashing the pick of a guy who's been the athletic director at multiple D1 schools and made this hire.

But please tell me why you, WoodburyTim, and the other bashers are actually more qualified to make the pick and should be hired as the athletic directors. You guys are the ones acting like you are "more knowledgeable about the inner workings of an athletic department" than Coyle.

Or here's a better idea.....shut up and let the guy who was hired to make these decisions do his job.
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Well let's be honest, you want the people who disagree with you to shut up. Not those who are disagreeing with Coyle.

I am sure Coyle would agree he not infallible and his decisions open to questioning and disagreement. You are pretending to defend Coyle, but what you are really angry about is people not agreeing with you.
 

Go4Broke said:
Plenty of posters in this thread have been saying Xavier had terrible recruiting classes since Ben Johnson went there. . We now know they don't know what the hell the were talking about.

Ben Johnson's basketball addiction helped land him a coaching job at Xavier University​

It’s a Thursday morning in late August 2018, and the television hanging on the wall of Ben Johnson’s office inside Xavier University’s Cintas Center is displaying a grainy, unfocused basketball game. It's Game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Indiana Pacers. When asked about it, Johnson matter-of-factly replies, “You never know when you’re gonna see something.”

Ben Johnson, the second assistant coach that Xavier head coach Travis Steele hired to his staff, is a basketball addict. It’s an addiction without downside. Dave Thorson laughs when he hears that Johnson was watching an 18-year-old basketball game. Thorson, who's now an assistant coach at Colorado State, coached Johnson at DeLaSalle High School in Minneapolis.

"He's always been such a student of the game," Thorson told The Enquirer. "He was a great player but he wasn't a guy that had NBA athletic talent, he was a great player because he understood the game and he understood what needed to be done in certain situations. I think that's made him an even better coach. "Ironically, I told his dad when he was a senior in high school, I said, 'Someday, I'll probably work for Ben.' It wouldn't shock me at all if that happened."

High school was where Johnson realized that someday he wanted to get into coaching. He who played college basketball at the University of Minnesota. "There were a couple other things I explored but then I was given an opportunity with a guy named Brian Gregory, who recruited me out of high school and was the coach at Dayton."

Xavier head coach Travis Steele said putting a coaching staff together is a lot like fitting together the pieces of a puzzle. So, after Steele hired Jonas Hayes, his focus turned to the next piece. "The first conversation I had with Ben was right after I met with Jonas," said Steele. "I was in the airport ... that was the first time I'd talked to Ben.

My brother was the head coach at Illinois so he knew Ben really well and so did his assistant coaches." Steele's brother, John Groce, advised him to take a look at Ben. "I said, 'That's a good one, that's a good name.' In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, 'He's from Minneapolis, played at Minnesota, has been coaching at Minnesota the last five years. Probably not likely, I don't know if I'll be able to get him, but it's worth a shot.'

"I got him on the phone and I thought we really hit it off right away, we kind of think the same way and I could tell his personality was a little different than Jonas' – in a good way – he's a little bit more calculated. "You could tell right away he's got a basketball mind, which I was excited about."

Steele talked to college coaches, high school coaches, AAU coaches, and he even reached out to former Xavier standout JP Macura, who's from Minnesota. "JP said, 'Man, he's really good,' JP's mom and dad both loved him," Steele said. "He's another guy, he's been coaching a long time and I've never heard a bad word about him."

On top of that, Johnson has recruited a lot of the Midwest, which complements Hayes' recruiting foothold in the Southeast. Steele and Johnson connected so well over the phone, Steele said, "I never interviewed him in person. We have a lot of mutual friends and they all said he would be a home run."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...im-coaching-job-xavier-university/1097156002/
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I think it is a crapshoot for the U. For God's sake, who has really shined? Clem? for a few moments, but pretty lackluster otherwise, followed by the dubious demise at the end. Dutcher? One great class, one Big Ten title and then nada, and another sour ending. Musselman? He was like the Magic Man, but bad ending, as well. We always seem close, but we have to build a program like Wisconsin does. Good shooters, not NBA talent, but through the tweeters, bangers and pride guys that want to play for the Maroon & Gold. We've had some players like that who've done well-- Hoffarber, Dusty Reichart, Jamal, Al Nolan, etc. We NEED more players from here, period. Who is going to get them best? Crapshoot. But, we'll have to be successful. I just heard Richard Coffey endorse the hire. He also stated that his selection of assistants will be important naturally. I'm guessing that Ben has a few aces in his sleeve. I also noticed that Medved wasn't chosen to interview. That is curious.
 

GopherGangsta said:
And my point remains ....No one has any idea if Ben is going to be a winning coach because he has never been a coach before....I can guarantee the level of success needed to pack Williams arena will not happen next year or the year after....At least an established name puts people in seats at least for a couple years without a great amount of winning.
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Name a coach that was interviewed that fulfills filling Williams Arena in the next couple of years. I was a season ticket holder all through the Tubby era. The Barn was not packed for much of that time. So, again it’s not happening. The bottom line is people are in a “prove it and then we’ll come” mindset. Our fan base is so old at this point winning is the only solve. The same fan base with a lack of donors to bring in a big name right now. I for one have never understood the infatuation MN has with the “one of us” thing, but it’s real so if they can start retaining their own talent perhaps that moves the needle. We’ve tried the hot thing in Monson, the major name in Tubby, and Pitino who despite his shortcomings with in-game coaching and adhering himself to local HS and AAU folks was moderately successful. There were certainly times of success #5 seed in 17-18 and being ranked throughout. Ultimately, it didn’t workout, but what I think is apparent is that this job is not the “catch,” that many seem to think it is. Coyle hit a HR with Fleck and many of his past hires. Until proven otherwise I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and support Ben Johnson. You can bring up Whalen if you’d like, but it’s apples to oranges. I can name many coaches who’ve struggled in years 1-3 and then found their stride. Plus that hire afforded the U revenue. Just curious on what your names were that were interviewed that would have guaranteed butts in seats and no “Musselman” was never an option. Unless you personally had millions you offered Coyle for him?
 

WoodburyTim said:
Well let's be honest, you want the people who disagree with you to shut up. Not those who are disagreeing with Coyle.

I am sure Coyle would agree he not infallible and his decisions open to questioning and disagreement. You are pretending to defend Coyle, but what you are really angry about is people not agreeing with you.
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I'm making fun of the keyboard athletic directors like you that think you know what's actually best. People (like you) jumping off a cliff because the guy they wanted didn't get picked. But keep telling us about how you've evaluated some of these coaches REALLY HARD after hearing about them a few weeks ago. Man! Missed some really good ones! lol.
 

Tvans022 said:
Name a coach that was interviewed that fulfills filling Williams Arena in the next couple of years. I was a season ticket holder all through the Tubby era. The Barn was not packed for much of that time. So, again it’s not happening. The bottom line is people are in a “prove it and then we’ll come” mindset. Our fan base is so old at this point winning is the only solve. The same fan base with a lack of donors to bring in a big name right now. I for one have never understood the infatuation MN has with the “one of us” thing, but it’s real so if they can start retaining their own talent perhaps that moves the needle. We’ve tried the hot thing in Monson, the major name in Tubby, and Pitino who despite his shortcomings with in-game coaching and adhering himself to local HS and AAU folks was moderately successful. There were certainly times of success #5 seed in 17-18 and being ranked throughout. Ultimately, it didn’t workout, but what I think is apparent is that this job is not the “catch,” that many seem to think it is. Coyle hit a HR with Fleck and many of his past hires. Until proven otherwise I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and support Ben Johnson. You can bring up Whalen if you’d like, but it’s apples to oranges. I can name many coaches who’ve struggled in years 1-3 and then found their stride. Plus that hire afforded the U revenue. Just curious on what your names were that were interviewed that would have guaranteed butts in seats and no “Musselman” was never an option. Unless you personally had millions you offered Coyle for him?
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Dutcher would have came here or at least interviewed....Smith interviewed and would have been a solid, smart hire that was at least defensible....Johnson is a complete wild card that could cost Coyle his job.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
You can't just "take away" Oturu and Coffey and do recruiting rankings, the real world doesn't work that. way. They've both been vocal today about how big a hire this is for Minnesota. Richard Coffey flat out said Ben is the only reason Amir was a Gopher. Johnson was also responsible for Murphy and Gabe Kalscheur. That stuff matters.

Pitino's downfall was the inability to consistently connect and build relationships with local high school and AAU programs. That's one of Ben Johnson's biggest strengths.

His biggest challenge is clear: He's never been a head coach, and now you have to take the talent you can recruit and develop it. Consecutive top 30 classes can't be ignored, regardless of how they panned out.

It sounds like the first 2 commits are likely to be Parker Fox and Jamison Battle. Dawson Garcia is rumored to be leaving Marquette, and there's steam that he's coming home. There's even whispers with Race Thompson.

How about we give him 2 years to see what he can do before throwing him out to the trash? This board is absurd today. I'm one of the very few who thinks this can really work.
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I agree. I assume that he has a couple of aces up his sleeve like Garcia, Race, Thorson, and maybe even Chet. What if? I'm a hopeless Gophers backer. I've been wishing my whole life, why worry about this one? I can see this working as well as Tubby. The writing was on the wall with him too, but we all got snookered. He couldn't even attract Top 100 talent at Kentucky and even the ones he got (Sampson, Iverson) regressed at a level you couldn't hardly recognize them. Only a trip to Ft. Collins under Tim Miles allowed Iverson to recover.
 


stocker08 said:
I'm making fun of the keyboard athletic directors like you that think you know what's actually best. People (like you) jumping off a cliff because the guy they wanted didn't get picked. But keep telling us about how you've evaluated some of these coaches REALLY HARD after hearing about them a few weeks ago. Man! Missed some really good ones! lol.
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I don't think it is that good of hire, but I also don't who else was in the mix of who else they could get and I haven't suggested otherwise.

I'll admit, I am making fun of you more than Coyle. Your "defense" of him has been much more clumsy than the hire.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I don't think it is that good of hire, but I also don't who else was in the mix of who else they could get and I haven't suggested otherwise.

I'll admit, I am making fun of you more than Coyle. Your "defense" of him has been much more clumsy than the hire.
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We know. You think you're more qualified than Coyle. One of the gopherhole athletic directors who would have lured away Mark Few. So smart of you.
 

GopherGangsta said:
Dutcher would have came here or at least interviewed....Smith interviewed and would have been a solid, smart hire that was at least defensible....Johnson is a complete wild card that could cost Coyle his job.
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According to WCCOs Mike Maxx the other potential waite were Sam Mitchell, Ben Jacobson, and Craig Smith.
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Not according to this report...on Dutcher. FWIW. Smith was my favorite for many reasons. Proven success at multiple stops. Midwest ties. X and Os guy, etc. however he wouldn’t have filled seats. That’s why my whole point was that were so far gone from the Clem Days that any season ticket holder is a die hard or was from that era. No ones buying new season tickets for Smith even. I get it Johnson is underwhelming on paper. It is. Fact. However, I do firmly believe Coyle vetted multiple local ties and more than likely there’s a plan in place for assistants. You don’t hire an unproven HC unless you like the idea of the potential staff around him. That’s always part of the interview process.
 

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