Gophers Getting Huge on Both Sides of the Line

[Iceland12]

???

I agree with him. The run blocking was only slightly more awful than the pass blocking.

Running for his life? 75% of the time? Literally he didn't run much at all.

Yeah, he did get sacked a lot. There were though, many, many times particularly in the second half of the season where Weber had a LOT of time to throw the ball. He didn't "run for his life", quite the contrary. While one might focus on the times an DE or LB took a straight uncontested shot at Weber weren't there far more moments of screaming to yourself or those around you "Take Off!" or "Throw the ball!" ? But he wouldn't or more likely wasn't allowed to.

The most frustrating thing was that he DIDN'T run out of there or, at the worst, throw the ball away. No, he waited and waited and then got sacked. The other endings, balls badly thrown or dropped, were worse but it least the were quicker. The O-Line didn't open any holes but Weber often had more then enough time to throw the ball on many of the "sack" occasions.

No, straightshooter is either parroting what he's read or has the worst memory in history. Either way, don't encourage him. Having one embittered Gordie Shaw around here was more then enough without adding an embittered basketball guy too.

 

[highwayman]

Just to get us back...

...Gophers Getting Huge on Both Sides of the Line.

 

[steffyboy]

I agree also

???

I agree with him. The run blocking was only slightly more awful than the pass blocking.

Although I think the pass blocking was equally, if not more aweful than the run blocking. Our tackles were horrible.

However, I do like our recent recruits and development with the O line. I hope they have a short leash on some of these legacy guys. I wish the best for Wills and hope he improves. That's a tough position all around to learn and if he can't hack it move someone in that can. I agree with some in this thread that the key to this season will be the O line plain and simple. Most average RB's will excel with good line play but a good RB is nothing without a Solid Line.

I think the D-line this year is way off people's radar. The unit will be exceptional.

 

[Gopherhurrin]

Setterstron and Eslinger were great, don't get me wrong. But 270 pound lineman work great against the cream puff preseason skeds that Mason liked. That's why the Gophers always started out so hot under him. They can fake and out-quick the cream puffs. Then they come up against Ohio State and the Buckeyes are strong enough and athletic enough to stand their ground, push the Gopher OL's out of the way and tackle the ball carrier. We may or may not YET have the quickness and athletic talent to go with the S&C and better size, but I for one am glad we have abandoned the 270 pound lines.

I thought we won some of those games under that system and have won none of those games under this system??

 

[lakesgopher]

Setterstron and Eslinger were great, don't get me wrong. But 270 pound lineman work great against the cream puff preseason skeds that Mason liked. That's why the Gophers always started out so hot under him. They can fake and out-quick the cream puffs. Then they come up against Ohio State and the Buckeyes are strong enough and athletic enough to stand their ground, push the Gopher OL's out of the way and tackle the ball carrier. We may or may not YET have the quickness and athletic talent to go with the S&C and better size, but I for one am glad we have abandoned the 270 pound lines.

Seriously? When they were upper classmen, we didn't have problems running downhill on anyone. We had the right system for players with their ability to pull and move against over-sized, non-mobile defensive fronts.

who cares? if last season we had florida's team we would have won the big ten...and if mason could have stopped anyone in his coaching career he would be still coaching.

 

[RodentRampage]

We're going to have to use every tool that we have this year. Part of that has to be the QB running. It puts a lot more pressure on the defense if there is a serious threat that the QB might take off and run with the ball. Maybe the QB running wasn't "Pro Style" enough for Fisch. If Weber has to be our main running threat like he was in 2007, so be it. Less sacks, less interceptions and less balls thrown away, but more yards on the ground.

 

[harrys ghost]

We're going to have to use every tool that we have this year. Part of that has to be the QB running. It puts a lot more pressure on the defense if there is a serious threat that the QB might take off and run with the ball. Maybe the QB running wasn't "Pro Style" enough for Fisch. If Weber has to be our main running threat like he was in 2007, so be it. Less sacks, less interceptions and less balls thrown away, but more yards on the ground.

Actually, increasing the number of balls thrown away will decrease sacks and interceptions and increase rushing yardage (Weber was credited with 73 carries for -133 yards last year).

 

[RodentRampage]

Actually, increasing the number of balls thrown away will decrease sacks and interceptions and increase rushing yardage (Weber was credited with 73 carries for -133 yards last year).

Sure, a thrown away pass is better than a sack. But the QB running for positive yards is better than throwing the ball away.

 

[re3886]

you are way off base here

dpodoll - Perhaps our current system is our only option due the the lack of talent on the O line. Brewster is very familiar of the zone blocking schemes due to his time in the Denver organization. They have made a living of this system for over a decade while Shanahan was there. If we had the talent necessary to run that system, I would bet that we would. The fact is that our line play has been horrible the past couple years and to think it will improve because some of these guys put on 20-25 ponds is stupid. I hope I am wrong but if we show improvement this year, it will be due to learning to be better lineman, not that we strapped on 20-25 pounds. Setterstrom and Eslinger would be very successful in the current scheme because they were talented not just because they could pull and use their quickness effectively. It played a part of their success, but it was not the only factor as some sugggest.
I never inferred that Setterstrom and Eslinger were good because they were small. I inferred that it was meaningless to suggest that our line will improve because they are heavier. If you say they are heavier, quicker and understand the game better, I would hope they would be better overall

The Veer, or frankly, any form of misdirection offense is used by teams to hide lack of skill and or size on the Offensive line.
The current system requires some talent on the line especially in pass protection, so calling this the "only option" is not well informed. The hard nosed, run first scheme needs size. The pro style, pass first option needs some foot speed, especially at tackle.

 

[Maximus]

Then they come up against Ohio State and the Buckeyes are strong enough and athletic enough to stand their ground, push the Gopher OL's out of the way and tackle the ball carrier.

To be fair, the Gophers at their peak in 2003 and 2004 never faced Ohio State. In 2005 with Eslinger and Setterstrom, Maroney had 127 yards and 5.1 yards per carry.

 

[RodentRampage]

The Veer, or frankly, any form of misdirection offense is used by teams to hide lack of skill and or size on the Offensive line.
The current system requires some talent on the line especially in pass protection, so calling this the "only option" is not well informed. The hard nosed, run first scheme needs size. The pro style, pass first option needs some foot speed, especially at tackle.

That's like saying that a marathon runner is hiding a lack of sprinting ability. It's just a question of different types of talents. You aren't going to be able to run the veer or the triple option with bad offensive linemen, you just require a different type of offensive lineman than you would in another offense.

 

[Gopherhurrin]

And what offense have we been running with this coach? How has that gone? I hated our obviously fat O line last year. It looked like what it was, minor league.

 

[RodentRampage]

And what offense have we been running with this coach? How has that gone? I hated our obviously fat O line last year. It looked like what it was, minor league.

That is an entirely different question. Whether we should have stuck with the old offense, or another offense which similarly relied on smaller faster O-linemen that other schools passed on is a valid question, but that doesn't change the fact that we have changed to a different offense, and that, like offenses that most teams run, requires bigger offensive linemen.

 

[Gopherhurrin]

I thought we have had three offenses in the last four seasons. No?

 

[RodentRampage]

I thought we have had three offenses in the last four seasons. No?

Again, that is a different subject. The fact remains that using the offense that we have now, and that most teams have now requires larger offensive linemen. If it were up to me, we'd be running the flexbone. But it isn't.

 

[shootstraight]

At the end of the day, regardless of what offense we try to run we have to have TALENT on the O line to make it work in the Big Ten. We have proved to be lacking in this department and I have little confidence that last year's 290 pound linemen that are now 310 pounds will suddenly become talented.
No different than believing that a running back that was crappy and ran a 4.6 40 yard dash will suddenly become very good because he now runs a 4.5 40 yard dash. You must have the talent to be successful at this level, not simply statistics in the weight room or on the scale.

 

[Schnoodler]

We were alright by the end of the year. Too many people formed their opinions the first few games when Wills was get blown apart. Our pass protection was actually decent by the end, hopefully we add an improved run game.

 

[Maximus]

We were alright by the end of the year. Too many people formed their opinions the first few games when Wills was get blown apart. Our pass protection was actually decent by the end, hopefully we add an improved run game.

Illinois had 7 sacks
SDSU had 4 sacks
Iowa had 5 sacks

Did the OLine improve and these are primarily on Weber? I guess they could've improved...by that point in the year Minnesota was lucky to get two yards per carry.

 

[Iceland12]

Illinois had 7 sacks
SDSU had 4 sacks
Iowa had 5 sacks

Did the OLine improve and these are primarily on Weber? I guess they could've improved...by that point in the year Minnesota was lucky to get two yards per carry.

A combination of Weber and Fisch.

 

[re3886]

actually you are off on that comparison...

That's like saying that a marathon runner is hiding a lack of sprinting ability. It's just a question of different types of talents. You aren't going to be able to run the veer or the triple option with bad offensive linemen, you just require a different type of offensive lineman than you would in another offense.

The Veer offense was designed and implemented by a coach who was desperately trying to cover up the fact he had no size or speed on the line. The Marshall team after the plane crash switched to the Veer offense because they were not able to line up 18 year old freshmen players against the Juniors and Seniors the other teams fielded in the days of Freshmen ineligibility. The Veer and most other Option teams survive on one on one matchups. QB vs. DE a lot. They use misdirection to get those players in to positions where they are forced to make a choice. They are unblocked. No offensive can survive without some form of blocking, but you can try to minimize your expectations, and maximize your potential.

The point is, they are other types of offensive they could switch to if they think the line is going to get crushed play in and play out, the current one is not one of them.

I think that the line play did improve as the year went on, as someone else said, how many times did Weber have time, only to hold on to the ball and get sacked in what are called "coverage" sacks? The lack of a running game, including from QB, lead teams to pad their sack totals.

 

[Schnoodler]

A combination of Weber and Fisch.

ditto.

It wasn't protection at this point.

 

[shootstraight]

Iceland and Schnoodler - Both of you must either be buddies with someone on the O line or their parents if you really think the lack of any consistency in the running or passing game had much more to do with Weber and Fisch versus the O line. Not that these two are blameless, but to think they were the sole problem is nuts. Any credibilty you might have had is gone.

 

[Schnoodler]

No we just watched the games. Our pass protection was fine by the end of the season. Some people are able to read beyond the stats sheet. Some people actually watch the game with a critical eye instead of bitching and moaning the whole game.

 

[WAGopher]

No we just watched the games. Our pass protection was fine by the end of the season. Some people are able to read beyond the stats sheet. Some people actually watch the game with a critical eye instead of bitching and moaning the whole game.

By the end of the year, the O line was definitely improved. However, by that time Weber was so shell shocked that he had lost all confidence in his pass protection as evidenced by leaving the pocket at the slightest sign of a breakdown. Fisch could have helped by calling plays to help settle Weber down, but he didn't appear to.

BTW, I think the biggest O-line improvement came on the right side when Carufel and Wills seemed to have better communication, or at least a better understanding of their assignments.

 

[RodentRampage]

An offense like the veer favors smaller, quicker linemen. If it was about hiding lack of talent, then it would work even better with larger stronger linemen. If an offense works, you aren't hiding anything. It's about getting choosing what gets the most out of what you have.

 

[Iceland12]

Iceland and Schnoodler - Both of you must either be buddies with someone on the O line or their parents if you really think the lack of any consistency in the running or passing game had much more to do with Weber and Fisch versus the O line. Not that these two are blameless, but to think they were the sole problem is nuts. Any credibilty you might have had is gone.

Of course that not what we said and not surprisingly, that's not what you were stated either.

The discussion centered around the Passing game only and the end of the season. To refresh your memory here's what you typed:

"Weber was running for his life 75% of the time last year. A lot of people disagree with that being all the O-Lines responsibility in the last games of the season.

You must have your doubts also seeing as how you need to bring the running game into it. Maybe if you actually wanted to establish some credibility yourself you would have said that "yeah, I was wrong" or "maybe not 75% of the time all season" Even "nope, I disagree. Weber's sacks were all on the O-Line." Couldn't do it though could you?

You tried to hedge that bet a little by bringing in the canard that we were blaming Weber/Fisch for the lack of a running game.

Your burning desire to establish your credibility isn't being helped by being a (negative term of your choice). Or using your method "Your credibility was shot when you said that the Running Game was the strongest part of the Gopher's team in 2009"

Didn't say that? Join the club.