Gophers Getting Huge on Both Sides of the Line

[highwayman]

I posted this on the "DL weight" thread, but I wanted to give our OL some props as well. We have gotten massive over the last three years.

2010 season--26 players 270 lbs. or bigger, 10 at 300 lbs. or more. That's amazing. We have certainly bulked up on both sides of the line. The DL weights have been updated, but the OL weights appear to be the same as last year's roster. Brooks, Orton, Wynn are likely all over 300 by now:

91 Gregory-McGhee, Kendall DE 6-5 273 RFr. Aurora, Colo. (Cherokee Trail HS)
XX Epping, Zac OL 6-2 274 Fr. Kenosha, Wis. (Tremper HS)
62 Mottla, Zach OL 6-2 274 RFr. Edina, Minn. (Cretin-Derham Hall HS)
63 Brinkhaus, Andy OL 6-3 276 Sr. Bloomington, Minn. (Bloomington Jefferson)
XX Tauaefa, Josh DL 6-2 281 Fr. Corinth, Texas (Lake Dallas HS)
64 Hahn, Austin DL 6-4 287 So. Hartford, Wis. (Hartford HS)
65 Jacques, Eric OL 6-2 287 RFr. Pompano Beach, Fla. (Ely HS)
58 Olson, Ed OL 6-7 288 RFr. Mahtomedi, Minn. (Mahtomedi HS)
53 Burris, D.J. OL 6-2 290 Sr. Kenton, Ohio (Kenton)
XX Eggen, Matt OL 6-5 290 Fr. LaCrosse, Wis. (Logan HS)
99 Hageman, Ra'Shede DE 6-6 294 RFr. Minneapolis, Minn. (Washburn HS)
96 Kirksey, Brandon DT 6-2 294 Jr. St. Louis, Mo. (Hazelwood East)
75 Michel, Brooks OL 6-7 295 RFr. Carmel, Ind. (Carmel HS)
78 Orton, Ryan OL 6-4 296 Jr. Eden Prairie, Minn. (Eden Prairie)
60 Wynn, Ryan OL 6-5 296 Jr. Plymouth, Minn. (Maple Grove)
89 Delaney, Curran DL 6-1 297 So. Victoria, Minn. (Holy Family HS)
XX Gjere, Jimmy OL 6-7 300 Fr. New Brighton, Minn. (Irondale HS)
97 Jacobs, Anthony DE 6-2 300 Jr. Northfield, Minn. (Northfield)
73 Carufel, Matt OL 6-5 302 Sr. Forest Lake, Minn. (Notre Dame)
98 Ferguson, Sean DL 6-6 306 Fr. Philadelphia, Penn. (The Hun School)
XX Legania, Harold DL 6-4 306 Fr. New Orleans, La. (Edna Karr HS)
68 Bunders, Chris OL 6-3 322 Jr. Maple Grove, Minn. (Osseo)
76 Alford, Dominic OL 6-3 336 Sr. Cleveland, Ohio (Shaker Heights)
XX Ragoo, Johnathan OL 6-7 342 Fr. Opa Locka, Fla. (Monsignor Pace HS)
68 Edwards, Jewhan DT 6-1 350 Jr. Philadelphia, Pa. (Roman Catholic)
71 Wills, Jeff OL 6-7 365 Sr. Laurelton, N.Y. (Lackawanna College)

By comparison, our previous rosters 270 lbs. and over:

2005--15 (3 at 300 lbs. or more)
2006--18 (4 at 300 or more)
2007--22 (9 were listed at 270-275, only 13 over 275, of which 9 who were at 300 or more)
2008--23 (7 at 300 or more)
2009--24 (9 at 300 or more)

Take it any way you want, but we have some big boys up front.

 

[Ski U Master]

My concern is they may be big, but can they move?

 

[Stargenes]

My concern is they may be big, but can they move?

Wait until they update the entire roster. All of the trash talk about our S & C program being subpar will immediately stop. And yes, they can move better as well. This Staff is building a Program. If you still want to be negative, get out of the way and we will allow you to get on the band wagon when we circle back around the track. GO GOPHERS!

 

[GopherFan75]

I just hope some of the O Linemen have lost some weight since last season.
________
Vapir no2

 

[auric@heart]

This was posted by Willie Burton in a question about Strength and Conditioning



The Representative started this thread asking, "How many people are benching 400lbs+, squating 600lbs+, cleaning 350lbs+?"

Coincidentally, those just happen to be the numbers required for membership in the "Big Man's Club" (aka "It's a Big Man's Game"). Last year, there were only four members (Moen, Small, Burris, Jacobs). Two graduated (Moen and Small) and, so far, only one new member has joined the club, Ra'Shede Hageman, to go along with Jacobs and Burris.

So we have 2 defensive players and one offensive starter who meet the conditioning standard.

I wonder if anyone else is close? Carufel? Kirksey? Edwards? Olson? Michel

Notice Wills name didn't come up.

 

[MNRideorDieChick]

Considering the youth of the defense, I don't think it is surprising that it will take some time for more guys to make the Big Man's Club. Several guys are very close. Kirksey and KGM will be next.

 

[Ski U Master]

Wait until they update the entire roster. All of the trash talk about our S & C program being subpar will immediately stop. And yes, they can move better as well. This Staff is building a Program. If you still want to be negative, get out of the way and we will allow you to get on the band wagon when we circle back around the track. GO GOPHERS!

Get off your pedestal, do you think that just because someone has a concern about the Gophers that they aren't fans? I've been going to games and been a fan since I was a toddler, I will never give up on the team or stop cheering for them. I want them to be the best, and part of getting there is eliminating your weaknesses of which this edition of the team may have many. Am I sold on Brewster? No. Am I going to quit supporting the University and the team as a whole because things might be rough? Of course not. Keep your talk of band wagon jumping to yourself because you obviously have no idea what, or who, you're talking about.

 

[Stargenes]

Get off your pedestal, do you think that just because someone has a concern about the Gophers that they aren't fans? I've been going to games and been a fan since I was a toddler, I will never give up on the team or stop cheering for them. I want them to be the best, and part of getting there is eliminating your weaknesses of which this edition of the team may have many. Am I sold on Brewster? No. Am I going to quit supporting the University and the team as a whole because things might be rough? Of course not. Keep your talk of band wagon jumping to yourself because you obviously have no idea what, or who, you're talking about.

Wow, I caught you at a sensative momoent obviously. Although I used your quote to give a basis for my comment, I did not intend that the bandwagon reference be applicable to you specifically. There had been quite a bit of suggestions here after the espn blog of workout warriors that people heard our S & C Program was a joke. While much of the claims were mere folly, I proffer that the size increases are good evidence of improvements. And given all of the running our athletes are required to do virtually year round, I am about certain most if not all of the increases represent good weight.

I do respect and appreciate your support of the Gophers over the years and wish that you would not take anything that I write here or anywhere else to suggest otherwise. You definitely have a right to like or dislike a particular coach, but at the same time the fact that you leave comments here and attend games is evidence, not that you need it, that you support the TEAM.

By the way, Wills lost weight and gained strength since he has been here. In fact, he is much stronger. As you likely already know, there is not a direct correlation with how much weight one can lift and how successful a player is on the football field. BUT, S & C does definitely help players perform at a high level and remain healthy by limiting injuries. GO GOPHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SPCPrice21]

Ra'Shede Hageman = BEAST!!

 

[SelectionSunday]

"Good" huge or "chubby & slow-footed" huge? Especially on the OL, the Gophers need to be "good" huge, which would be the opposite of last season.

 

[Brewscrew]

I for one have been less than impressed with the S&C program under Hill. Up until this point we haven't seen many kids bulking up, but more conditioning instead. It appears that we have some kids coming up that have more fire in the belly.

 

[highwayman]

"Good" huge or "chubby & slow-footed" huge? Especially on the OL, the Gophers need to be "good" huge, which would be the opposite of last season.

My concern is they may be big, but can they move?

Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrg. We're all going to die. We can't get better. We suck. I hate me. You hate me. I'm from Minnesota, kick me.

Let's go with 240 lb. "fast guys" at tackle and see if we can move down to DIII...

 

[shootstraight]

Who cares how much they weigh

Seems to me that when we rushed for 3000 + yards in 2004 that we were lead by two all-americans who weighed about 270 at best. Having a bunch of 300 pound heavy footed lineman will get us nowhere this year. This has to be one of the most overrated thoughts in football...that if we get real big, we will roll over the defense?? At the D1 level, a quality D lineman will take advantage of an oversized O lineman everyday...see 2009 Gopher football results. I will take a few more Setterstoms and Eslingers at 265 pounds any day of the week.

 

[Nort73]

Seems to me that when we rushed for 3000 + yards in 2004 that we were lead by two all-americans who weighed about 270 at best. Having a bunch of 300 pound heavy footed lineman will get us nowhere this year. This has to be one of the most overrated thoughts in football...that if we get real big, we will roll over the defense?? At the D1 level, a quality D lineman will take advantage of an oversized O lineman everyday...see 2009 Gopher football results. I will take a few more Setterstoms and Eslingers at 265 pounds any day of the week.

It may well be an overrated thought, but back in 2003-04 we were pulling our guards and centers a bunch. We have a very different style of play as of today. I would have to say that if our guys get bigger without losing foot speed it can't hurt us. But I do agree with you on this: give me a line full of Setterstroms and Eslingers any day of the week.

 

[harrys ghost]

Seems to me that when we rushed for 3000 + yards in 2004 that we were lead by two all-americans who weighed about 270 at best. Having a bunch of 300 pound heavy footed lineman will get us nowhere this year. This has to be one of the most overrated thoughts in football...that if we get real big, we will roll over the defense?? At the D1 level, a quality D lineman will take advantage of an oversized O lineman everyday...see 2009 Gopher football results. I will take a few more Setterstoms and Eslingers at 265 pounds any day of the week.

Setterstrom currently plays at 314 pounds. Gee, wonder why that is?

 

[dpodoll68]

Seems to me that when we rushed for 3000 + yards in 2004 that we were lead by two all-americans who weighed about 270 at best. Having a bunch of 300 pound heavy footed lineman will get us nowhere this year. This has to be one of the most overrated thoughts in football...that if we get real big, we will roll over the defense?? At the D1 level, a quality D lineman will take advantage of an oversized O lineman everyday...see 2009 Gopher football results. I will take a few more Setterstoms and Eslingers at 265 pounds any day of the week.

Two things:

1) The 2010 Gophers don't run a zone-blocking scheme. Smallish linemen are the bread and butter of such a scheme because of the lateral agility needed for (as already mentioned) all the pulls, traps, counters, etc. Further, the zone is predicated upon creases in the line, which are easier to find between smaller linemen. If the 2010 Gophers were a zone-blocking team, you would be right to question their use of bigger linemen. But since they're not, your point is invalid. Sorry.

2) The major fallacy in your logic is that you infer that you would take Setterstrom and Eslinger because they are small. Actually, you would take them because they are/were good. The fact that they were small by college OL standards is immaterial.

 

[WolfontheProwl]

Does bigger mean fat?

Last years O-line looked overweight not bigger. That is my concern no matter what blockign system we use. We need a stronger O-line that can play football.

 

[Ole]

The bigger O linemen we are seeing develop in the program are a direct result of Tim Davis's philosophy of "Mass kicks *&%"

On D, this is exactly what you want to see, big framed, fast athletes, bulking up and gaining muscle and strength. Hageman, Garin, Wilhite, KGM, Jacobs, Kirksey SHOULD be bigger every year until maybe their senior year, this is why freshmen linemen usually don't make an impact.

FYI for the guys pining for the glory days of Mason's 235 lb offensive linemen, that philosophy and offense are exactly why we've had problems on the Oline in recent years, small linemen were fine for that system and that system only, when those linemen were transitioned to the spread and now the power running offenses, they simply physically could not compete in pass protection and man up run blocking against Big Ten defenders. Let the idea that O linemen can be under 275 go please.

I'd also be willing to bet that Wills, Bunders, Alford, and Edwards all have either lost weight or have reduced body fat over the offseason.

 

[Iceland12]

Two things:

1) The 2010 Gophers don't run a zone-blocking scheme. Smallish linemen are the bread and butter of such a scheme because of the lateral agility needed for (as already mentioned) all the pulls, traps, counters, etc. Further, the zone is predicated upon creases in the line, which are easier to find between smaller linemen. If the 2010 Gophers were a zone-blocking team, you would be right to question their use of bigger linemen. But since they're not, your point is invalid. Sorry.

2) The major fallacy in your logic is that you infer that you would take Setterstrom and Eslinger because they are small. Actually, you would take them because they are/were good. The fact that they were small by college OL standards is immaterial.

The fallacy in your argument dpodoll is thinking that shootstraight gives a bleep about the Gophers!

There seems to be a lot of that around here the past few days.

 

[nc2mn]

Seems to me that when we rushed for 3000 + yards in 2004 that we were lead by two all-americans who weighed about 270 at best. Having a bunch of 300 pound heavy footed lineman will get us nowhere this year. This has to be one of the most overrated thoughts in football...that if we get real big, we will roll over the defense?? At the D1 level, a quality D lineman will take advantage of an oversized O lineman everyday...see 2009 Gopher football results. I will take a few more Setterstoms and Eslingers at 265 pounds any day of the week.

Setterstron and Eslinger were great, don't get me wrong. But 270 pound lineman work great against the cream puff preseason skeds that Mason liked. That's why the Gophers always started out so hot under him. They can fake and out-quick the cream puffs. Then they come up against Ohio State and the Buckeyes are strong enough and athletic enough to stand their ground, push the Gopher OL's out of the way and tackle the ball carrier. We may or may not YET have the quickness and athletic talent to go with the S&C and better size, but I for one am glad we have abandoned the 270 pound lines.

 

[RodentRampage]

The smaller, quicker offense linemen did work for the offense that we used to run. They don't work for the type of offense that we run now. There's something to be said for running an offense that not everone else is running, you don't have to compete with everyone for the same athletes. The triple option lets the service academies, who are at a severe recruiting disadvantage, compete at the D-I level, and it got Georgia Tech to conference championship. We didn't run the triple option, but we were running an offense that no one else was running. It brought us a degree of success, but the problem wasn't the offense, it was the defense.

It's possible that we might have done better to have made less radical changes on offense, and focused more on defense, but that boat has sailed. For the offense we have now, we need bigger linemen.

 

[wels0081]

Setterstron and Eslinger were great, don't get me wrong. But 270 pound lineman work great against the cream puff preseason skeds that Mason liked. That's why the Gophers always started out so hot under him. They can fake and out-quick the cream puffs. Then they come up against Ohio State and the Buckeyes are strong enough and athletic enough to stand their ground, push the Gopher OL's out of the way and tackle the ball carrier. We may or may not YET have the quickness and athletic talent to go with the S&C and better size, but I for one am glad we have abandoned the 270 pound lines.

Seriously? When they were upper classmen, we didn't have problems running downhill on anyone. We had the right system for players with their ability to pull and move against over-sized, non-mobile defensive fronts.

If last year's team had 2003's offensive line and backfield, we would have been a BCS contender. If you look back, the Mason era defenses were brutal, not the offenses and certainly not the offensive lines.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

If last year's team had 2003's offensive line and backfield, we would have been a BCS contender. If you look back, the Mason era defenses were brutal, not the offenses and certainly not the offensive lines.

If maroney and Barber were in the backfield...maybe...but not with our running backs...I don't care how good the line would have been last year...we would not have had a 1,000 yard rusher.

 

[RodentRampage]

If last year's team had 2003's offensive line and backfield, we would have been a BCS contender. If you look back, the Mason era defenses were brutal, not the offenses and certainly not the offensive lines.

Last year's defense combined with the 2003 offense would have been an awesome combination.

 

[shootstraight]

Allow me to address a few of the folks with the maroon glasses on and the selective memory:
1. Iceland - Given the fact that I have had Gopher season tickets for 13 years disproves your theory that I don't give a bleep. I don't feel precluded in offering some criticism or opinion while also being a strong supporter of the program.
2. dpodoll - Perhaps our current system is our only option due the the lack of talent on the O line. Brewster is very familiar of the zone blocking schemes due to his time in the Denver organization. They have made a living of this system for over a decade while Shanahan was there. If we had the talent necessary to run that system, I would bet that we would. The fact is that our line play has been horrible the past couple years and to think it will improve because some of these guys put on 20-25 ponds is stupid. I hope I am wrong but if we show improvement this year, it will be due to learning to be better lineman, not that we strapped on 20-25 pounds. Setterstrom and Eslinger would be very successful in the current scheme because they were talented not just because they could pull and use their quickness effectively. It played a part of their success, but it was not the only factor as some sugggest.
I never inferred that Setterstrom and Eslinger were good because they were small. I inferred that it was meaningless to suggest that our line will improve because they are heavier. If you say they are heavier, quicker and understand the game better, I would hope they would be better overall players.
3. nc2mn - You are the selective memory issue of the group - Do you really believe that we padded our stats and only put up 400 and 500 yard rushing numbers against the cream puffs of our schedule? Look at 2004-5 against Michigan and OSU, we rushed for 400+ yards against nationally ranked top 20 teams. We rushed for over 3000 yards in 2004 - we put up huge numbers against almost every team we faced, including top level Big Ten teams. It can be done with the right skill set and coaching in todays game. We just don't have that right now.
4. Harry - Setterstrom plays in the NFL now - the talent level is a bit different. Your statement says nothing about why he was successful in the Big Ten.

 

[Iceland12]

Allow me to address a few of the folks with the maroon glasses on and the selective memory:
1. Iceland - Given the fact that I have had Gopher season tickets for 13 years disproves your theory that I don't give a bleep. I don't feel precluded in offering some criticism or opinion while also being a strong supporter of the program.
2. dpodoll - Perhaps our current system is our only option due the the lack of talent on the O line. Brewster is very familiar of the zone blocking schemes due to his time in the Denver organization. They have made a living of this system for over a decade while Shanahan was there. If we had the talent necessary to run that system, I would bet that we would. The fact is that our line play has been horrible the past couple years and to think it will improve because some of these guys put on 20-25 ponds is stupid. I hope I am wrong but if we show improvement this year, it will be due to learning to be better lineman, not that we strapped on 20-25 pounds. Setterstrom and Eslinger would be very successful in the current scheme because they were talented not just because they could pull and use their quickness effectively. It played a part of their success, but it was not the only factor as some sugggest.
I never inferred that Setterstrom and Eslinger were good because they were small. I inferred that it was meaningless to suggest that our line will improve because they are heavier. If you say they are heavier, quicker and understand the game better, I would hope they would be better overall players.
3. nc2mn - You are the selective memory issue of the group - Do you really believe that we padded our stats and only put up 400 and 500 yard rushing numbers against the cream puffs of our schedule? Look at 2004-5 against Michigan and OSU, we rushed for 400+ yards against nationally ranked top 20 teams. We rushed for over 3000 yards in 2004 - we put up huge numbers against almost every team we faced, including top level Big Ten teams. It can be done with the right skill set and coaching in todays game. We just don't have that right now.
4. Harry - Setterstrom plays in the NFL now - the talent level is a bit different. Your statement says nothing about why he was successful in the Big Ten.

You say you've got Season Tickets, good for you. Maybe you dearly want them to win, maybe you're one of those guys who likes to go to the games to sit and bitch. Maybe you're an Iowa or Wisconsin fan who just likes college football enough to buy the ticket. Who knows. All we can do here is take a look at your past posts. Your posts almost solely consist of "criticisms" which is your right of course. Nobody who reads them should or would apologize for thinking that your not a fan or just an embittered Masonite.

A Gopher fan who hopes they'll win or embittered fan who wants them to lose just so Brewster and Maturi are fired? What does it really matter on an internet board? I would suggest that your seemingly constant litany of complaints makes more for a "boy who cried wolf" scenario then an attempt at constructive criticism. If your surprised by the reaction or insist on the "Maroon Glasses' bulls^&t, I really don't care.

As for "selective memory" the 2004 season seems to bring that out in a LOT of people. It wasn't same as 2002 or 2005. They may have put up "huge numbers" against a lot of teams that year, but those numbers weren't always points. Oh they put up a WHOLE lot of yards AND points against Toledo (63), Illinois State (37), Colorado State (34), Northwestern (43) and Illinois (45). They won all of those games.

The other seven games were another matter; 14 against Wisconsin, 16 against Penn State 20 on Alabama(both wins), 21 against Indy, 24 on MSU and 27 in the Iowa loss. The Michigan, Indiana or Iowa games could have all been wins if the Offense could have done something once they had fallen behind, but they couldn't. That's something that happened to Mason's team far to often.

They got out "defensed" a lot in Mason's years; you're very right about that. The problem in 2004, like a number of times in Big Ten games in general, is when the game was on the line that vaunted running game could hardly get a First Down let alone get the ball into the end zone.

Now if Weber can start hitting and Wideouts can get open it might be a good year. It would make me very happy, like I said, we have no idea what that would do to your state of mind.

 

[shootstraight]

Iceland,
Your rambling message had very few points but I will agree that if Weber has a strong year that we will have a chance to move forward compared to the last couple. It all boils down to the O line as to whether the offense improves. Weber was running for his life 75% of the time last year. No college QB would have been successful in that offense last year. I believe we have the skill position talent to be above average offensively. With all this said about the offense, the defense has more new players who must step up and be impact players real fast. We have not had a consistently strong defense for many years but it appeared at times to be looking brighter last year. With all the new guys having to take on new spots, we really won't know much until they step on the field in September. Call it biching or whatever your choose, but I think we all have the right to expect an occasional top division finish in the Big Ten which has occured about 1-2 times in the past 20 years. Continue to be happy that we give a good effort and make it to the meaningless bowl games that we have been to the past 20 years. I am not looking to have the coach fired until he proves to be incapable of coaching at this level. We will have a real good idea in the next two years and at that time be able to make an informed decision. My guess is that he will be gone in two years.

 

[Iceland12]

" Weber was running for his life 75% of the time last year"

Well at least that proves you never actually watched those games you bragged about attending.

 

[year of the gopher]

" Weber was running for his life 75% of the time last year"

Well at least that proves you never actually watched those games you bragged about attending.

???

I agree with him. The run blocking was only slightly more awful than the pass blocking.

 

[dpodoll68]

???

I agree with him. The run blocking was only slightly more awful than the pass blocking.

You can go ahead and agree with him. But you'd both be wrong.

You and the "straight shooter" need to go back and watch the tapes.