Gophers Defense

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ole1710

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Anybody else notice this? Starting according to current depth charts 9 seniors and 2 juniors
Defensive line and linebackers are all seniors with the only two juniors being the 2 safeties!!!!
 

Like I've said before, we should expect some of the young guys to position themselves as big time contributors for next year, but this is the year.
 

Next Year

I have brought that point up many times when people say we are going to be better next year. When you lose 9 starters on defense how are going to be better for next season? I know the guys behind them are talented but it's too big of a turnover to have a good defense next year. Next year we if we are going to have a really good season, we'll need to out score our opponents. Teams have done that in the past and had really good seasons (Boston College with Flutie, Ware with Houston, Texas tech more recently). Our offense next year could be that good, but this year we have a much better chance to contend for the Big Ten title rather then next year.
 

gold04 said:
I have brought that point up many times when people say we are going to be better next year. When you lose 9 starters on defense how are going to be better for next season? I know the guys behind them are talented but it's too big of a turnover to have a good defense next year. Next year we if we are going to have a really good season, we'll need to out score our opponents. Teams have done that in the past and had really good seasons (Boston College with Flutie, Ware with Houston, Texas tech more recently). Our offense next year could be that good, but this year we have a much better chance to contend for the Big Ten title rather then next year.
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You just hope that the good recruits you brought in just need one more year of experience to get to the level of the current starters. For instance, we love our DTs this year (Brown and Small), but losing them shouldn't hurt us next year as I have confidence Kirksey/Edwards/Jacobs will be equally as good next year with a whole nother year of experience under their belt?? Same with our LBs (hoping Cooper will be as good a Lawrence with another year), etc.

Edit: wanted to add: and then even better in their year(s) after next (when they would be replacing our Sr's)
 

gold04 said:
I have brought that point up many times when people say we are going to be better next year. When you lose 9 starters on defense how are going to be better for next season? I know the guys behind them are talented but it's too big of a turnover to have a good defense next year. Next year we if we are going to have a really good season, we'll need to out score our opponents. Teams have done that in the past and had really good seasons (Boston College with Flutie, Ware with Houston, Texas tech more recently). Our offense next year could be that good, but this year we have a much better chance to contend for the Big Ten title rather then next year.
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Returning starters is a nice indicator but it means jack overall because it all depends on the individual scenario facing each team. We return the most starters this season. Does that make us better then say, OSU? No, b/c they have more talent across their 2 deep.

We lose 9 D starters next year. Does that mean we'll be worse? Maybe. Or maybe the new guys perform better then this year's starters.

I'm not coming down 1 way or the other. I'm just saying assuming we'll automatically be worse on D next year just b/c we lose 9 starters is silly.
 


Some of those seniors starting this weekend might not be starting at the end of the season. Let's just enjoy this week against Syracuse and let the future work itself out.
 

2009 season hasn't even started and people are already apologizing for a poor defensive performance in 2010?
 

I am the doubting Thomas in the bunch as I have seen bad Gopher D for years.

All we know at this point is where we ended last Fall which was not good allowing something like 37ppg the last 5 games. And we have 9 starters back with a new but experienced DC.

How do we get better? By the vets amping it up a notch, keeping the best players healthy and have the young heralded talent get game ready in a hurry and push the incumbents. IMO, there are a lot of ?'s with this squad and the D is not exempt. It would be nice to have a D that allowed less the 20ppg in the Big Ten. Can this group do it? I am not betting on it but it may have the best chance of accomplishing that with any recent D since the 1999 group..
 

ole1710 said:
Anybody else notice this? Starting according to current depth charts 9 seniors and 2 juniors
Defensive line and linebackers are all seniors with the only two juniors being the 2 safeties!!!!
Click to expand...

"Starters" is kind of a misnomer. "Starter" doesn't mean you play every play the whole game, most of a game, or even a whole set of downs. Being named a "starter" is sometimes more of an honor than a fact. Our 9 Seniors are there because they are Seniors and they also deserve it by merit. Our Juniors, Sophomores, and yes, even Freshman will get plenty of plays. Look at number of plays, not who starts.

We are very deep at defense.

In through the nose and out through the mouth.
 



The success of this defense will depend on many players, not just the starters. Particularly along the d-line, where there will be many different players in the rotation and all of whom will be expected to contribute. Depending on the circumstances in the game, as many as 6 different defensive ends could see game action Saturday.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
I am the doubting Thomas in the bunch as I have seen bad Gopher D for years.

All we know at this point is where we ended last Fall which was not good allowing something like 37ppg the last 5 games. And we have 9 starters back with a new but experienced DC.

How do we get better? By the vets amping it up a notch, keeping the best players healthy and have the young heralded talent get game ready in a hurry and push the incumbents. IMO, there are a lot of ?'s with this squad and the D is not exempt. It would be nice to have a D that allowed less the 20ppg in the Big Ten. Can this group do it? I am not betting on it but it may have the best chance of accomplishing that with any recent D since the 1999 group..
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You are exactly right. I think fans believe our defense is better than what it is, only because of the improvement from 2007 to 2008. What they are forgetting is that we had the WORST defense in America in 2007. We had to get better last year because we couldn't get any worse! Roof definitely improved the squad but we still finished like 76th in total defense in the nation (And 10th in the Big 10). Teams like Northwestern had much better D's than us. And with key players gone like Brock and Willie...
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
How do we get better?
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One thing that will really help and was missing in those five games for the most part was offense. I don't have all the data in front of me, but here are the time of possession stats from the Iowa game.
IA MN
Possession Time 37:37 22:23
1st Quarter 10:32 4:28
2nd Quarter 10:14 4:46
3rd Quarter 9:33 5:27
4th Quarter 7:18 7:42

And here it is for the Illinois game.
MN IL
Possession Time 29:32 30:28
1st Quarter 7:23 7:37
2nd Quarter 5:47 9:13
3rd Quarter 6:04 8:56
4th Quarter 10:18 4:42

Any team whose offense has the ball for 37% of the game is probably not going to have great defesive stats. The first half was nothing but three and outs for the gophs. No defense can continual stop a team that always has the ball. Our defense was pretty effective in many situations, but being on the field so much down the stretch took its toll both physically and pyschologically.
 

Defense will be fine

I don't think we'll see a drop-off at all from last year, and likely a small improvement. If we had anything resembling an offense last year our defense would have looked that much better. I think the offense is improved, which will lead to a better showing on D.

The pre-week 1 depth chart is probably not even close to what we'll be seeing by the time the bowl game rolls around...I'm guessing at least 3-4 of the underclassmen will see some significant time in the starting lineup by the time we hit the conference slate.
 



gophmeister said:
One thing that will really help and was missing in those five games for the most part was offense. I don't have all the data in front of me, but here are the time of possession stats from the Iowa game.
IA MN
Possession Time 37:37 22:23
1st Quarter 10:32 4:28
2nd Quarter 10:14 4:46
3rd Quarter 9:33 5:27
4th Quarter 7:18 7:42

And here it is for the Illinois game.
MN IL
Possession Time 29:32 30:28
1st Quarter 7:23 7:37
2nd Quarter 5:47 9:13
3rd Quarter 6:04 8:56
4th Quarter 10:18 4:42

Any team whose offense has the ball for 37% of the game is probably not going to have great defesive stats. The first half was nothing but three and outs for the gophs. No defense can continual stop a team that always has the ball. Our defense was pretty effective in many situations, but being on the field so much down the stretch took its toll both physically and pyschologically.
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This

What killed our D more than anything last year was an ineffective offense. Unless you have an elite D you're going to wilt eventually if the offense can't hold onto the ball. Add to that the fact that we had no depth last year either and that half our starters were in their first year as JUCOs or playing a new position and its easy to see where the problems are. I don't think we have an elite D this year but I don't think we play many great offenses either. Iowa, Wisky, MSU, PSU and probably OSU will try to pound the ball and our size up front is our strength along with our corners. The only WR I fear on the schedule is Benn, and while there are good QBs, this isn't the B12. Our pass rush will be our biggest weakness but there aren't many teams on our schedule who will be able to exploit that a ton
 

MNCH said:
You are exactly right. I think fans believe our defense is better than what it is, only because of the improvement from 2007 to 2008. What they are forgetting is that we had the WORST defense in America in 2007. We had to get better last year because we couldn't get any worse! Roof definitely improved the squad but we still finished like 76th in total defense in the nation (And 10th in the Big 10). Teams like Northwestern had much better D's than us. And with key players gone like Brock and Willie...
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Good Christ....

Can they at least play a game before you get your panties in a panicky little bunch about how lost the defense will be without Brock and WVDS?

Here's how I grade the positions. Feel free to disagree, provided you keep your screeching that the sky is falling to a minimum:

CB = B+: BPT, Sherels and Carter at the nickel will be solid for us. Not an A- due to depth, since Collado still terrifies me.
S = C+: Theret is OK, but we don't know enough about Royston to grade them any higher. Two-deep could be great, but no one knows.
LB = B+: Campell and Lawrence are decent and the combo package of Cooper/Tripplet should work. Decent depth as well.
DE = C+: Again, unproven for the most part in games so it's tough to rate them any higher. Could be the pleasant surprise of the year, imo.
DT = A-: Strength of the team and average to good depth with the younger guys.
 

Everybody knows the defensive woes at the end of last season have very little to do with our defense and everything to do with TOP. That's not to say we're great, just to say the end of last season means nothing when analyzing the strength of this squad.
 

MBAGuy said:
Good Christ....

Can they at least play a game before you get your panties in a panicky little bunch about how lost the defense will be without Brock and WVDS?

Here's how I grade the positions. Feel free to disagree, provided you keep your screeching that the sky is falling to a minimum:

CB = B+: BPT, Sherels and Carter at the nickel will be solid for us. Not an A- due to depth, since Collado still terrifies me.
S = C+: Theret is OK, but we don't know enough about Royston to grade them any higher. Two-deep could be great, but no one knows.
LB = B+: Campell and Lawrence are decent and the combo package of Cooper/Tripplet should work. Decent depth as well.
DE = C+: Again, unproven for the most part in games so it's tough to rate them any higher. Could be the pleasant surprise of the year, imo.
DT = A-: Strength of the team and average to good depth with the younger guys.
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Interesting that you graded out the safeties the same as the DE. We have complete unknowns at DE and we have one Safety that was Big Ten Honorable Mention.

Our defense went to crap when Theret got hurt.
 

Boy was I sleeping.....

ole1710 said:
Anybody else notice this? Starting according to current depth charts 9 seniors and 2 juniors
Defensive line and linebackers are all seniors with the only two juniors being the 2 safeties!!!!
Click to expand...

I just looked at the rouster and I noticed that Cedric McKinley is now listed as 6'6"/ 282lbs and Brandon Kirksey is listed as 6'2"/ 295lbs. DE's Moen, Mckinley, and Jacobs are all north of 280lbs.
 

Schnoodler said:
Everybody knows the defensive woes at the end of last season have very little to do with our defense and everything to do with TOP. That's not to say we're great, just to say the end of last season means nothing when analyzing the strength of this squad.
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The collapse against Michigan, Iowa and KU was a total team effort. Our D played well enough to win against NU (missed FG away from a victory) and also Wisky (2nd half turnovers and poor field position) added to our demise.

However, we couldn't stop Michigan, Iowa or KU. Michigan scored its first 2 of 3 possessions and would have likely the third except they turned it over on the 19 and scored 2 of 4 drives in the second quarter. Iowa converted its 2 of its first quarter 3 possessions and then 3 of 3 in the second. KU did 2 of 3 both quarters.

I want a D that is good enough and deep enough to keep us in the game even with a crappy offense. Sorry, but I can not defend the performance of our D in those games. At least for most of the first half. With Masonball we normally had to score over 30 ppg to beat a decent team.
 

Iowa scored 3 points in the first quarter. Michigan scored 6 points in the first quarter. You can quote percentage of scoring drives, but as anyone who watched the games and understands them can tell, the defense started those games just fine and kept us in it. If you want to worry about a unit, worry about our OL, running game, etc, because the defense was not the problem last year for the first time in a decade, and it's not reasonable to think they won't improve. If our offense can move the ball and put up points we'll have a very good season.
 

monk10 said:
Interesting that you graded out the safeties the same as the DE. We have complete unknowns at DE and we have one Safety that was Big Ten Honorable Mention.

Our defense went to crap when Theret got hurt.
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That's fair. I'm just not a huge fan of Theret. Seemed to miss quite a few tackles and a step behind in coverage more than I was comfortable with. That's just my opinion, though. I'm obviously in the minority given his conference accolades and generally positive regard in which he is held.
 

Section2: If our offense can move the ball and put up points we'll have a very good season
*************

Yep, thats what Gopher fans expectations have been over the years. I'd rather have a D that can keep a team in the game. Iowa's D shut down PSU last year in the fourth quarter and gave their O a chance to win. We give up points 67% of the time in the first quarter and everything is just fine! Michigan had the ball 9:36 and Iowa 10:32 the first quarter. You call that defense? Yet Michigan and KU, neither very good on D, easily shut us down.

If you have read any of my posts, I have ID'd the OL as the #1 concern this season. We are at least one year away from putting a decent OL on the field.

90% of the teams that contend in the BT over the years are strong on D and keep oppositiion under 20 ppg.
 

Maybe you should have read what I wrote. Out defense IS SOLID. When I said a good year would hinge on the O, that's because they were AWFUL last year. Our D was NOT the problem. Our D won games against Indiana, Purdue and illinois, and made NW winnable. Our O won us exactly ZERO Big 10 games last year.
 


Can they at least play a game before you get your panties in a panicky little bunch about how lost the defense will be without Brock and WVDS?



I think Gopher fans have the right to feel panicky because of something called Mike Kafka.

I agree with your grading system. Theret is a hard-worker but he is way overmatched in talent by a number of Big 10 players. Terrelle Pryor made him look foolish last year (though to Kyle's credit, Pryor will make a number of Big 10 defenders look bad this season).
 

What we have in BPT and Sherrels are two shutdown corners. Add to that the second best defensive line in the Big Ten. We are able to rotate defensive tackles and lose very little. Spreading the snaps among 4 players is better than 2. We are strong and deep up the middle and have great corner play. Lawrence and Tripllet are X factors. This defense will be measured by points allowed, turnovers, three and outs. Every three and out, yields a punt to Stoudemiere and a very good chance for 6.
 

husker70 said:
Add to that the second best defensive line in the Big Ten.
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The staff is struggling to find two quality starters at DE, are clearly worried about the pass rush, and yet we have the second best defensive line in the conference?

I think everyone needs to tamper down their enthusiasm about the defense. It wasn't very good last year, and we also lost our best defensive player, along with possibly our 2nd-best. By Minnesota standards, this should be a good D, but let's cease with the hyperbole. I'll just be happy if we manage to stay out of the bottom third in the conference.
 

Watching the Michigan game was horrible. I simply could not believe that our Offense could do absolutely NOTHING. This was the only game since 2003 that we were favored to beat Michigan and we blew it. But what's even crazier is as lopsided as the game seemed statistically and what our eyes seen, we weren't getting blown out, we just did absolutely nothing and that's it. Before Dickrod pulled that last minute TD the score was only 22-6, we were 2 scores down, we could have been in the game, terrible play-calling, turnovers and bonehead decisions kept us from getting anywhere near the endzone.

I have never seen a game so heavily one sided but we weren't completely out of it.......

Our Offense? Hot Garbage that game.......
 

dpodoll68 said:
The staff is struggling to find two quality starters at DE, are clearly worried about the pass rush, and yet we have the second best defensive line in the conference?

I think everyone needs to tamper down their enthusiasm about the defense. It wasn't very good last year, and we also lost our best defensive player, along with possibly our 2nd-best. By Minnesota standards, this should be a good D, but let's cease with the hyperbole. I'll just be happy if we manage to stay out of the bottom third in the conference.
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For what it's worth, DiNardo on the BTN claims our DL is the second best in the BT. He claims it is the largest and deepest (and claims to have looked at everyone's DL in person). He gave tOSU the edge in overall line quality because of their starters.
 

to be the 2nd best, McKinley needs to be the beast he looks to be. He has the physical size,speed, and strength. I think with our DTs dominating, the opportunity is there for him. He will need to have a break out year off the edge or we will be in trouble. BUT, he will so all is well!
 

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