Gophers-Colorado St scrimmage

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dbmn said:
So, you're saying the gophers were trying to "sandbag" the game or they were attempting to get all players some experience while the Colorado state was playing their top players.
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I will say that I was at an exhibition game between Division 2 Chico State and #10 Arizona in 2016, the year Arizona went something like 31-4. It was a 3-point game with a minute to play and Chico had apparently drawn a charge in the lane to get the ball back and a chance to tie. However, the bang-bang black/charge call went against Chico and Arizona made free throws to make it a 5-point game and ended up winning 78-70. Coach Miller played only 7 guys, saying afterwards, "If I'd gone to my bench, we would've lost".

Pretty sure a lot of AZ Wildcat fans were going nuts, thinking that their team might actually suck. I guess, the point is that, based on that game and a few others I've seen over the year, it's tough for me to get too fired up or too distraught over scrimmage/exhibition scores. I guess with-out actually watching scrimmage or seeing any game film, it's tough to really gauge what was really going on.

Maybe I've been away from Minnesota too long, but I've kinda gotten over the pervasive idea that "I know that bad things happen to all teams, but I understand that only the worst things will happen to my Minnesota teams!".
 

Bad Gopher said:
"The administration" as the bogeyman under the bed is tiresome and intellectually lazy. This isn't the first you've heard this from me, and it won't be the last, as it won't be the last time someone posts this tiresome and intellectually lazy dreck.
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Is Coyle part of "the administration?" If so, then "the administration" is part of the problem, if not the problem by itself. The hire of the current coach served no one well, not the university, not the basketball program, and not the coach they hired. That is "the administration" as they are the decision makers.
 

Bad Gopher said:
My concern is that the program will continue to sustain increasing permanent (or semi-permanent) damage the longer this goes on. Even as I write, the Gophers are--and are now known as--a perennial bottom-dwelling program. Even the fans seem to have accepted that: I'm surprised and dismayed how passive and apathetic the fan base and local community have been throughout this. To me, that's the most concerning sign. I'm a little afraid to go to the first game and see how bad the attendance is.

Once this nightmare is over, it's going to be harder to recover from than most people here think it will be.
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You are exactly correct on this one. The apathy is driven by two factors as I see it. First is that people don't need to care since they have a lot of other options for their sports and entertainment dollar. There has never been a lot invested in Gopher basketball, and we are full of front runners in the Twin Cities. The only proverbial riots in this market come from passionate Vikings fans. No one cares enough about any other teams to make too big of a stink.

Secondly, and this is much more difficult, is that Ben is respected and well-liked in the community on many levels by many people and for good reason. He is "one of us." And that makes it much more difficult for those who are not dismissing what they are seeing in the program to get the knives out on one of our own. As I indicated in another post, this disaster is not all on Ben. He was hired for a job he was not prepared to do, and the ones doing the hiring need to take responsibility for that part of it.
 

Holy Man said:
You are exactly correct on this one. The apathy is driven by two factors as I see it. First is that people don't need to care since they have a lot of other options for their sports and entertainment dollar. There has never been a lot invested in Gopher basketball, and we are full of front runners in the Twin Cities. The only proverbial riots in this market come from passionate Vikings fans. No one cares enough about any other teams to make too big of a stink.

Secondly, and this is much more difficult, is that Ben is respected and well-liked in the community on many levels by many people and for good reason. He is "one of us." And that makes it much more difficult for those who are not dismissing what they are seeing in the program to get the knives out on one of our own. As I indicated in another post, this disaster is not all on Ben. He was hired for a job he was not prepared to do, and the ones doing the hiring need to take responsibility for that part of it.
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They will...he'll get four years or more years to learn on the job.
 


MissouriGopher said:
I just remembered how last year Alabama lost to TCU 99 - 69 in a secret scrimmage and a bunch of people started to freak out. They finished that year as the top overall seed in the NCAA tournament.

www.tuscaloosanews.com

Alabama basketball lost to TCU in secret scrimmage Sunday: Here's what happened

Alabama basketball played TCU in a secret scrimmage on Sunday. Here are full stats and details from the matchup in Birmingham.
www.tuscaloosanews.com
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Recently good team with high hopes plays badly against recently good B12 team coached by former coach of the year Jamie Dixon

Is a different story than:

Historically bad team plays badly against recently bad MWC team.

No one is realistically saying this means anything or should factor into anything. But how long do we play badly before the excuses run out?
 



bc2211 said:
Recently good team with high hopes plays badly against recently good B12 team coached by former coach of the year Jamie Dixon

Is a different story than:

Historically bad team plays badly against recently bad MWC team.

No one is realistically saying this means anything or should factor into anything. But how long do we play badly before the excuses run out?
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Yes, different scenarios are different scenarios. Thanks for laying that out for me. I'll make sure that I return my 2024 gopher national champions t-shirt.

I'll wait until an actual game is played.
 




Holy Man said:
Is Coyle part of "the administration?" If so, then "the administration" is part of the problem, if not the problem by itself. The hire of the current coach served no one well, not the university, not the basketball program, and not the coach they hired. That is "the administration" as they are the decision makers.
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I think, in order for them to be a sufficient bogeyman, "the administration" needs to be nameless and faceless. That's why you rarely see names mentioned when the tiresome and intellectually lazy dreck gets written.
 

bga1 said:
If you headed up "the administration" would you have hired Ben?
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Put in quotes like that, it's a fictional entity under the bed, so you're question is, by definition, nonsensical.

I think you know where I was on the Johnson hire. Not to rehash anything, but I believe in hiring the best people you can get.
 

The score of the CSU/MN scrimmage is so egregious there had to have been extenuating circumstances at play. I'd be far more concerned if it were an 18 or 22-point loss with intel that we were trying to win and played our contributors most minutes. But 38 points?

Cleary essential guys weren't playing, and I'd bet the surefire contributors weren't playing big minutes. I'm sure Ben has a good idea of who his starting five and 6th man are.

It's likely a lot more mucky figuring out who #7-11 are. And as importantly, the role players #7-9 will have. What an excellent opportunity to get some clarity on your bench depth.

Even in our worst matchups, and assuming we get blown out in a few games this year against top Big Ten teams, I can't imagine it being by more than 20 points with our improved depth and capable guards (not that that's something to celebrate).

38 would be an absurd margin of defeat, even if we played Kansas or Purdue. Key details have to be omitted here.

That Macalaster game can't come soon enough!
 



It's nonsensical to try to derive any concrete conclusions based on a glorified scrimmage. Anybody reading this thread from outside Gopher Hole would be justified in mocking some of the comments.

However, this being the first competition against an actual opponent, effort was probably not the issue. Getting beat by 38 is an absurd margin and calls into question whether or not (a) this team still lacks the talent to compete with its peers or (b) lacks a competent coaching staff or (c) couldn't shoot the ball at all. I guess we will find out soon but not exactly a promising first data point.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
If the buyout was 0 dollars would you still think he would get 4 years?
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Good question...I do think if the buyout would have been zero after year two...he would still be the coach in year three. Year four under those circumstances, if we finish last again I would think he'd be fired after three years of last place finishes.
 


bc2211 said:
But how long do we play badly before the excuses run out?
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Hopefully not longer than three years. Of course, the clock would restart with a new hire and we could see some bad playing for some time under a new coach too.
 


The angst about a scrimmage is perplexing, whilst amusing.

Carry on!!!
 

MissouriGopher said:
Yes, different scenarios are different scenarios. Thanks for laying that out for me. I'll make sure that I return my 2024 gopher national champions t-shirt.

I'll wait until an actual game is played.
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Of course, and thanks for pointing out fans of other teams also react to basketball outcomes.

We are in year 3. We agree that this is not moving the needle on BJ, but I hope our fan base can still be passionate enough to want to win now after 2 miserable years.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Put in quotes like that, it's a fictional entity under the bed, so you're question is, by definition, nonsensical.

I think you know where I was on the Johnson hire. Not to rehash anything, but I believe in hiring the best people you can get.
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My point is that almost none of would have hired him. So how is this not on the administration?
 

topos said:
The score of the CSU/MN scrimmage is so egregious there had to have been extenuating circumstances at play. I'd be far more concerned if it were an 18 or 22-point loss with intel that we were trying to win and played our contributors most minutes. But 38 points?

Cleary essential guys weren't playing, and I'd bet the surefire contributors weren't playing big minutes. I'm sure Ben has a good idea of who his starting five and 6th man are.

It's likely a lot more mucky figuring out who #7-11 are. And as importantly, the role players #7-9 will have. What an excellent opportunity to get some clarity on your bench depth.

Even in our worst matchups, and assuming we get blown out in a few games this year against top Big Ten teams, I can't imagine it being by more than 20 points with our improved depth and capable guards (not that that's something to celebrate).

38 would be an absurd margin of defeat, even if we played Kansas or Purdue. Key details have to be omitted here.

That Macalaster game can't come soon enough!
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It went in sessions and the matchups were all over the map. Some of our guys didn't play.

Take this with a grain of salt.
 


sal said:
Devastating? Really? I think we’ll all somehow survive despite an odd scrimmage score.
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Anybody know the source of the information on the “secret “ scrimmage? Who said the score was 87-49? Without a credible source are you sure it’s true?
 


kg21 said:
It went in sessions and the matchups were all over the map. Some of our guys didn't play.

Take this with a grain of salt.
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This is written authoritatively. Regardless of who played, it’s still not too hopeful for the supposed depth of the roster.

Saltiness seems warranted.
 

Dakota2 said:
Anybody know the source of the information on the “secret “ scrimmage? Who said the score was 87-49? Without a credible source are you sure it’s true?
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very plugged in CBB source. The fact that all Ben's lackeys in the local sports papers won't report a score should verify how terrible a beat down it was.
 


Dakota2 said:
Anybody know the source of the information on the “secret “ scrimmage? Who said the score was 87-49? Without a credible source are you sure it’s true?
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These "secret" scrimmages aren't very secret. They're reported every year, often with box scores. Maybe we'll get that for this one eventually.

I don't care what the matchups were or who played more. We lost by 37 to Colorado State. There's no sugarcoating that. I hope they get better.
 


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