Gophers-Colorado St scrimmage

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Bad Gopher said:
At the very least, concerning. A box score would be good to see before completely freaking out, but I have to say I was dismayed and disheartened when I saw this score. Hoping the whole season from one end to the other isn't a death march.
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Sure, but I'm waiting until the season starts and can digest at least a handful of games before letting despondency kick in. It's a long season and there will be plenty of time to give up along the way.
 


60's Guy said:
I still think he has year 4 in his pocket allowing him to extend his streak.
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Well, I hope the standard isn't four years regardless of the outcomes. I believed that BJ deserved at least three but beyond that I think he has to earn additional time. The only thing a four-year guaranteed minimum would be good for is hiring the next coach.
 

MissouriGopher said:
The problem is we see these box scores and just assume that it’s played like a normal game. But that’s not what these scrimmages look like. For all we know, CSU could’ve started with the ball every possession because that’s what the teams agreed to work on. Or BJ played the deep bench so that they can get game reps. Or maybe it was a standard 40 minute game with every starter playing normal minutes. I don’t know. Nobody knows. That’s why it’s silly for these scores to even get leaked. The exhibition on the 2nd is the first datapoint.
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I don't know what they did either but if you travel across states and you keep score...I'm pretty confident it was a game. Most all of the college secret scrimmages are. Limited to two opportunities per season, last I heard. Colleges get practice volunteers to scrimmage against in their own gym at home to work on controlled segments. But you are right...they could do it any way they want...but if they leaked a score, I think you can be pretty sure it was a game.

In high school where if you desire you can/could pretty easily get in 3 or 4 scrimmages. All of them had different formats....some you just played like 6 different teams on a Saturday for a quarter or a half or a running time number. Some you got 10 possessions on offense half court and then 10 on defense with full court scrimmages following. Some were with only one other team and you did it however you both agreed. Colleges are generally games from most reports.

Just my opinion, if you finished in last place two years in a row and your first chance to establish a new culture with your new players you did anything but play to win that'd be kinda silly, I'd think?
So, I'm in the camp that thinks it is an alarming beginning.

Macalester had a nice year and was 15 and 11 last year. They are Division III. I wouldn't actually count that as a greater data point than playing a Division I team in a scrimmage.
 




TwistingMyMelon said:
Well, I hope the standard isn't four years regardless of the outcomes. I believed that BJ deserved at least three but beyond that I think he has to earn additional time. The only thing a four-year guaranteed minimum would be good for is hiring the next coach.
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We have political considerations and buyout dollars that I believe are the biggest factors.
The last coach was here 8 years. He took the team to the NCAA Tournament after going 8 and 23 in year three. Just an opinion of how I think it will go.
 

60's Guy said:
We have political considerations and buyout dollars that I believe are the biggest factors.
The last coach was here 8 years. He took the team to the NCAA Tournament after going 8 and 23 in year three. Just an opinion of how I think it will go.
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Well, Pitino was one of the luckiest coaches ever. He was prevented from being fired until about his 5th year by an ill-advised extension given by an idiot athletic director. Then, he managed to do well enough after to hang on. He survived from year 7 to year 8 because of the pandemic. Once he had two bad years in a row he was fired.

I don't think Coach BJ will have those same advantages. I think his buyout was quite high after two years because that was never intended to be operable. I don't think it's so bad after three years but I could be wrong. As far as "political considerations," they may have been relevant in the hiring process but I don't think they would be enough of a defense after three bad years.
 

60's Guy said:
We have political considerations and buyout dollars that I believe are the biggest factors.
The last coach was here 8 years. He took the team to the NCAA Tournament after going 8 and 23 in year three. Just an opinion of how I think it will go.
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If I recall Pitino year 3 was expected to be bad, but everyone also knew Coffey and Lynch would be available the next season. He also had an NIT title under his belt and not back to back last place finishes. This is Ben's best team on paper so far with no success to point to. Asuma and Grove are not moving the needle like Coffey and Lynch. We are also guaranteed losing Garcia after this year. It will be hard to argue a reason to bring him back if he doesn't win something now. I'm not putting too much stock into anything until seeing them play Bethune-Cookman. If they struggle in that game there will be blood in the water.
 



60's Guy said:
We have political considerations and buyout dollars that I believe are the biggest factors.
The last coach was here 8 years. He took the team to the NCAA Tournament after going 8 and 23 in year three. Just an opinion of how I think it will go.
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The political considerations are dead. Almost no one cares about Gopher basketball and another 2-18 will cut that even more. They will officially kill interest in the program if they do nothing. If Coyle is more scared of a couple of columnists who haven't watched more than 2 games all year taking a shot at him than killing the program he should resign.
 

howeda7 said:
The political considerations are dead. Almost no one cares about Gopher basketball and another 2-18 will cut that even more. They will officially kill interest in the program if they do nothing. If Coyle is more scared of a couple of columnists who haven't watched more than 2 games all year taking a shot at him than killing the program he should resign.
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Coyle isn't scared, it was the outgoing president that was scared and narrowed the pool of candidates during the last search accordingly.

Ben will be gone if they finish near the bottom of the B1G again.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
I’m holding out hope that 3/4 of the team was sick from the flu, spread by Christie. That even a couple of the team managers had to play.

Signed, Rayrock
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You're not far off. I'm hearing the entire team had the flu, except Kadyn Betts. He took CSU on one v five and still scored 49 points.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
If I recall Pitino year 3 was expected to be bad, but everyone also knew Coffey and Lynch would be available the next season. He also had an NIT title under his belt and not back to back last place finishes. This is Ben's best team on paper so far with no success to point to. Asuma and Grove are not moving the needle like Coffey and Lynch. We are also guaranteed losing Garcia after this year. It will be hard to argue a reason to bring him back if he doesn't win something now. I'm not putting too much stock into anything until seeing them play Bethune-Cookman. If they struggle in that game there will be blood in the water.
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I agree with most everything you say...but, here are his buyout numbers: (This from Shama)

"It’s delusional to think Johnson will be terminated after this season. The cost to buyout his contract after two years is almost $8 million. The buyout amount (calculated on remaining years of his $1,950,000 annual salary) is reduced by 25 percent, 50 precent and 75 percent after years three, four and five respectively."
So, after year 3 he has a $6 million dollar buyout. After year 4 it is still $4 million dollars.
After year one's last place finish, Coyle pushed an extension through good through 2027.
We seem to cry we are poor, we can't raise money, we cut sports, we have no boosters and nobody really seems to care about basketball. So, I'll be surprised if we pony up $6 million. I'm not even sure of the $4 million.

Just to be clear...I don't and didn't see any reason for him to be hired and certainly no reason not to fire him after last year. But, I'm not the one with decision power.
 



Johnson had to replace almost the entire roster the first year, then lost two important front court players, possibly starters, last year. Let’s see what he can do this year with an improved roster and much better depth. I think we’re going to see a much better team and record.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree with most everything you say...but, here are his buyout numbers: (This from Shama)

"It’s delusional to think Johnson will be terminated after this season. The cost to buyout his contract after two years is almost $8 million. The buyout amount (calculated on remaining years of his $1,950,000 annual salary) is reduced by 25 percent, 50 precent and 75 percent after years three, four and five respectively."
So, after year 3 he has a $6 million dollar buyout. After year 4 it is still $4 million dollars.
After year one's last place finish, Coyle pushed an extension through good through 2027.
We seem to cry we are poor, we can't raise money, we cut sports, we have no boosters and nobody really seems to care about basketball. So, I'll be surprised if we pony up $6 million. I'm not even sure of the $4 million.

Just to be clear...I don't and didn't see any reason for him to be hired and certainly no reason not to fire him after last year. But, I'm not the one with decision power.
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Yeah this contract is about as legendary as Joe Smith's at this point
 

Why is everyone bent out of shape for a scrimmage? It's very possible that Colorado St was running up the score while the Gophers were working on offensive sets with the younger guys. Always take these scrimmages with a grain of salt.
 

gopherguy15 said:
Why is everyone bent out of shape for a scrimmage? It's very possible that Colorado St was running up the score while the Gophers were working on offensive sets with the younger guys. Always take these scrimmages with a grain of salt.
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The reason why I wouldn't give that any credence is these guys are friends. Thorson was an assistant under Medved. Medved was a Gopher assistant and Gopher graduate. Born and raised in Minnesota. Highly unlikely, he's doing anything to showup the Gophers and his coaching brothers.
Best excuse floated...we are not in shape and had trouble with the altitude.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Hypothetically even if the Gophers only played some combination of their 8 least experienced and/or scholarship returning-from-injury players:

Betts
Christie
Fox
Ihnen
Keinys
Purcell
Ramberg
Reader

I would tend to find this score alarming.
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I think what's most alarming is that between all 8 guys you have listed- they might have like 6 combined minutes of in-game court time together? It's going to take some serious gelling, and not going to be instant.

Help me with out though- any combo besides Ramberg and Purcell been on the court at the same time?
 

topos said:
You're not far off. I'm hearing the entire team had the flu, except Kadyn Betts. He took CSU on one v five and still scored 49 points.
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Well he's a Colorado kid... used the thin air like a superpower
 

howeda7 said:
The political considerations are dead. Almost no one cares about Gopher basketball and another 2-18 will cut that even more. They will officially kill interest in the program if they do nothing. If Coyle is more scared of a couple of columnists who haven't watched more than 2 games all year taking a shot at him than killing the program he should resign.
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My concern is that the program will continue to sustain increasing permanent (or semi-permanent) damage the longer this goes on. Even as I write, the Gophers are--and are now known as--a perennial bottom-dwelling program. Even the fans seem to have accepted that: I'm surprised and dismayed how passive and apathetic the fan base and local community have been throughout this. To me, that's the most concerning sign. I'm a little afraid to go to the first game and see how bad the attendance is.

Once this nightmare is over, it's going to be harder to recover from than most people here think it will be.
 

Reports are that a couple guys were held out due to minor injuries and possibly Christie too. Also there were three sessions and the 2 and 3-deep got 3rd session minutes including Fox.

I visited the CSU message board and couldnt find anything noteworthy. Would be interesting to see the box score if there is one.

Gonna have to wait until the Scots come to the Barn.
 

NYtoWItoMN said:
I think what's most alarming is that between all 8 guys you have listed- they might have like 6 combined minutes of in-game court time together? It's going to take some serious gelling, and not going to be instant.

Help me with out though- any combo besides Ramberg and Purcell been on the court at the same time?
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Everyone needs to STOP with the antiquated idea that we need "time to gel". This isn't 1975, transfers happen, these kids practice and see each other all of the time. By this logic Kansas, Kentucky anf Duke should be like 3-5 to start each year since they have 4 freshman and 3 transfers almost every year. If your team isn't "gelling " it's because your coach sucks or your guys aren't good. CSU has 5 guys leave and 4 transfers in, they seem to have figured it out
 

60's Guy said:
After year one's last place finish, Coyle pushed an extension through good through 2027.
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Are you sure that "extension" included additional buyout years? I recall that Coyle's last extension of Pitino did not include a buyout increase. You may also remember that Coyle succeeded in getting Pitino to leave at a bargain basement price. I have some real doubts that he would have added additional millions to a buyout after a last place finish in year 1.

If the buyout wasn't increased, then the amount after three years could be (according to your formula): .75 x 2 x $1.950 million = $2.925 million.
 

Bobek said:
Johnson had to replace almost the entire roster the first year, then lost two important front court players, possibly starters, last year. Let’s see what he can do this year with an improved roster and much better depth. I think we’re going to see a much better team and record.
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We’ll see if it's an improved roster or not. There’s not much in terms of proven production - at this level - beyond Garcia. Battle, for all his warts, was a capable first or second option offensively, and they don't have a for-sure replacement. They just have a bunch of guys. People are lured into the narrative of depth because of the sheer number of players no one has seen play, and hope for improvement from those we have. Truth is we don't know. However, we do know it wasn't working last year, so change was necessary. Change is not the same as improvement, though.

Payne might be the most likely second option, but ... he's a fouling machine and can only score inside - he tends to clog the lane for others.

They really need the guards to be B1G level.
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
Reports are that a couple guys were held out due to minor injuries and possibly Christie too. Also there were three sessions and the 2 and 3-deep got 3rd session minutes including Fox.

I visited the CSU message board and couldnt find anything noteworthy. Would be interesting to see the box score if there is one.

Gonna have to wait until the Scots come to the Barn.
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Good info… real common for three sessions with the third almost like a JV game.. glad to get solid info…
 


SelectionSunday said:
Interesting that Marcus didn't report the score that all of us (including him) have seen. Given that there's next to no information known about the scrimmage, why wouldn't he report the score, and instead just say "double-digits"?
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'
I'm guessing he's doing someone a favor. It's pretty obvious there is some damage control there, whether warranted and necessary or not.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
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if macalester is a "test" as marcus puts it, this team is in serious trouble. macalester vs a bigten team should be a romp

2006 minnesota lost their exhibition game to winona state. November 30th 2006 Monson resigned. If the gophers lose to macalester CBJ should resign immediately and not wait until november.
 

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