GOPHERS BENCH

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The bench was fine today. Indiana's huge run was with the starters in the game in the first half, not the bench. I thought Mav had a good game, and I'm not a big Mav fan. Tubby has to use the bench like he does to keep our starters fresh which will make them most effective. I also like when he takes guys out with 2 fouls in the first half, so he has them for the second half as he needs them. If you notice, Tubby is not subbing in the second half like he does in the first half. i have no problem with Tubby's substitution pattern, even the wholesale substitutions. You also have to understand, he is trying to develop a program beyond this season. Next year we should have the same three guards and will need a couple of these big guys to step up....he isn't going to get that if he doesn't give any of those guys any time.
 

Buggs better develop fast. Also it would be nice to sign Schilling
 

Mo should have to ride on a stationary exercise bike rather than the bench when sitting out
 


captain.hindsight said:
I'd rather see Wally play over Oto's minutes right now. Why not?
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It shocks me that he doesn't play more. I understand why he wouldn't play today and against Illinois, but he barely played against Northwestern. Why take off the redshirt if we're not going to utilize him?
 


barnanimal said:
It shocks me that he doesn't play more. I understand why he wouldn't play today and against Illinois, but he barely played against Northwestern. Why take off the redshirt if we're not going to utilize him?
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Because he wanted to play, said he did not want to be in college for 5 years, and Tubby wants him happy so his brother comes to MN?
 

ethomasp31 said:
The bench was fine today. Indiana's huge run was with the starters in the game in the first half, not the bench. I thought Mav had a good game, and I'm not a big Mav fan. Tubby has to use the bench like he does to keep our starters fresh which will make them most effective. I also like when he takes guys out with 2 fouls in the first half, so he has them for the second half as he needs them. If you notice, Tubby is not subbing in the second half like he does in the first half. i have no problem with Tubby's substitution pattern, even the wholesale substitutions. You also have to understand, he is trying to develop a program beyond this season. Next year we should have the same three guards and will need a couple of these big guys to step up....he isn't going to get that if he doesn't give any of those guys any time.
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Seems to use the hockey line substitution in the first half and filter in individuals(for fewer minutes) in the second half.

If you sub the entire second string for 5 minutes(per half), that means the starters are all in together for 15 minutes.

If you only sub 2 or 3 at a time, you're talking 10-15 minutes(per half) where your starting line-up is not in together.................there's good and bad to both ways.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Because he wanted to play, said he did not want to be in college for 5 years, and Tubby wants him happy so his brother comes to MN?
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Well I guess if that's what he wanted, Tubby's got to do it to keep him from transferring. Hopefully it does land his brother. He probably could've used the extra year to develop but oh well I guess.
 

barnanimal said:
Well I guess if that's what he wanted, Tubby's got to do it to keep him from transferring. Hopefully it does land his brother. He probably could've used the extra year to develop but oh well I guess.
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I dont disagree, but I will say that if his bro is as good as people say he is, if keeping the family happy lands his younder brother, no one will complain. One thing I do not like as much about the college game now is the politics that go into recruiting. I guess it is part of the deal though.

I do think that talent wise, there is not a lot of upside on the bench. I was hoping that Mo would have been ready, he is not. If you had a "good" Mo, Ellenson, Mav, and Welch I think the bench would not be as big an issue.

I will add - I am in the camp that think Elliot will never be more than a spot bech player and does not have the athletic ability or skill level to ever be an impact player at this level, and although I know that 7 footers do not grow on trees, think he will never be a major asset to the team. Hope he can prove me wrong, but in two years its hard to see him as more than a 10-15 minute a game player on a team if that team is top 20 level.
 



I think play Wally! Everyone cracks me up that not red shirting is keeping the family happy. I cannot see how Wally not playing and keeping the family happy is even in the same sentence?
 

Without looking, can anyone guess who is leading the team in assist to turnover ratio?
Who is second on the team with an assist every 7.9 minutes played?
Who is third (second among guards) on the team with a turnover every 18.3 minutes played?

Edit: forget to mention, the answer to all three is the same person.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Without looking, can anyone guess who is leading the team in assist to turnover ratio?
Who is second on the team with an assist every 7.9 minutes played?
Who is third (second among guards) on the team with a turnover every 18.3 minutes played?
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Julian, Mavrick, and Oto?
 




Ok. Hmmmmmm. I'm going to say Oto.

Edit:Julian. Oto's not a guard.
 

barnanimal said:
Ok. Hmmmmmm. I'm going to say Oto.

Edit:Julian. Oto's not a guard.
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Yep, it's Welch. His scoring has been a disappointment this year, but he's quietly being very productive dishing and taking care of the ball. His AST/TO ratio is 2.3. The next highest is Austin Hollins at 1.9. He had three assists today in just 10 minutes. I wish he would get 20 minutes a game. He can play both the 1 and 2.

Here's a crazy idea. Maverick has shown he can knock down some shots. How about letting Welch run the point when Hollins is out and let Maverick play a few minutes at the 2?
 

GophersInIowa said:
Yep, it's Welch. His scoring has been a disappointment this year, but he's quietly being very productive dishing and taking care of the ball. His AST/TO ratio is 2.3. The next highest is Austin Hollins at 1.9. He had three assists today in just 10 minutes. I wish he would get 20 minutes a game. He can play both the 1 and 2.

Here's a crazy idea. Maverick has shown he can knock down some shots. How about letting Welch run the point when Hollins is out and let Maverick play a few minutes at the 2?
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Good info! I think everyone puts to much emphasis on points when points are only part of the picture. Assists and defense are just as important as points scored.

As to your idea, I wouldn't mind that at all. I trust Julian with the ball much more than Mav. Let Mav float around the arch and let him bury shots!
 

I agree and will say that Welch is far from a waste. Decent, not "good" B10 player...
 


barnanimal said:
Good info! I think everyone puts to much emphasis on points when points are only part of the picture. Assists and defense are just as important as points scored.

As to your idea, I wouldn't mind that at all. I trust Julian with the ball much more than Mav. Let Mav float around the arch and let him bury shots!
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Agree 100%. I would also much rather see Welch than Mav at the point when Dre is out. So now how do we get this across to Tubby?
 

barnanimal said:
I don't get why people are so hard on our bench players. Did you guys forget how valuable they have been in our wins earlier in the year?They are bench players for a reason. Loosen up and enjoy watching a top 10 team. I think Tubby knows what he is doing.
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They are a top 10 team, but they're not a perfect team. No doubt the bench had struggled as the competition has increased. I still like their chances. Tubby will adjust and shorten his rotation.
 

BigGopherFan said:
They are a top 10 team, but they're not a perfect team. No doubt the bench had struggled as the competition has increased. I still like their chances. Tubby will adjust and shorten his rotation.
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I think being on the road the two games has struggled has a lot to do with it. It's a confidence game, and we have no idea how that hostile atmosphere can affect somebody who goes out there with the thought, "Don't screw this up now. Probably your only chance." in his mind. Doesn't help he's out there with 3 or 4 other guys with the same idea. Going to be really interested in seeing what the second bunch does at home this week.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Yep, it's Welch. His scoring has been a disappointment this year, but he's quietly being very productive dishing and taking care of the ball. His AST/TO ratio is 2.3. The next highest is Austin Hollins at 1.9. He had three assists today in just 10 minutes. I wish he would get 20 minutes a game. He can play both the 1 and 2.

Here's a crazy idea. Maverick has shown he can knock down some shots. How about letting Welch run the point when Hollins is out and let Maverick play a few minutes at the 2?
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He's by far the best pure ball handler on the team. Too bad he just can't get his shot from last year.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
He's by far the best pure ball handler on the team. Too bad he just can't get his shot from last year.
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I think part of it might be that he's not getting his minutes. Plus he's playing with the #2 guys most of the time and is forcing some shots compared to last year when he was getting good looks in the flow of the offense.
 

BTen said:
Unfortunately because Walker has been so bad Mbakwe has had to shoulder alot of the load while trying to get his conditioning back......Anyone else notice Mbakwe looked like he had dead legs against IU? He played his tail off against ILL and he didn't seem to have much burst today.
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Yes, after watching the game over and over again, I did notice that Trev seemed to have some lead in his legs in the 2nd half. Thankfully we have 4 days to rest and get ready for Michigan.
 

Goldiegirl said:
I think play Wally! Everyone cracks me up that not red shirting is keeping the family happy. I cannot see how Wally not playing and keeping the family happy is even in the same sentence?
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Tubby talked with Wally and his parents about the redshirt and since Wally and apparently his family wanted Wally to not redshirt, I am fairly confident that Tubby told them he could not guarantee how many minutes Wally would get this year.
 

Wally doesn't play because he's not better than Welch. Mav is the backup PG and can at times be an effective bench guy at this point. Welch can handle the ball, has experience, and can shoot though he's been in a funk (remember many thought he'd start or be the 6th man after averaging almost 10 a game last year). Oto can play the 4 in the second unit which gives us someone that can handle the ball, run the floor, and at least be an offensive option. Elliason/Walker/Ingram are all complete non threats on offense so its tough to play 2 of them at once and when they do they usually move Oto to the 3. The only truly ugly thing about Oto's game right now is his J. He's doing everything else fine IMO.
 

The bench could be more effective if two things happened:

1. Oto is not allowed to shoot jumpers
2. Maverick is only allowed to shoot stand still jumpers

Oto can be effective as a moderately effecitve post player who can put the ball on the floor on occasion. Maverick can be effective as stand still jump shooter. Once either player starts trying other things is gets very scary.
 

Unfortunately, I think Welch is the kind of player who needs to play more to find his groove. Their were periods last season when he was starting and producing double digit points for us and hitting over 40% from 3. But I think being a bench player robs Julian of his confidence and shooting rhythm. I hope we can get him some more minutes in future games. Wish we had a home date with PSU or somebody we can get a 20 point lead on so we can get more minutes for our bench guys...sadly, we have nothing but tough games for the immediate future.
 

We are going to need more from our bench going forward.

What I would like to see:

1. Julian be the back-up at pg. Better ball-handler and less turnover prone than mav.

2. Mav be the back-up at the 2. Has turned into a good spot-up shooter.

3. Oto gain more confidence. He can fill in at the 3 or 4.

4. Elliot get back to where he was during the NIT run. We are really going to need him.
 

UofMdad said:
Yes, after watching the game over and over again, I did notice that Trev seemed to have some lead in his legs in the 2nd half. Thankfully we have 4 days to rest and get ready for Michigan.
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Absolutely, Very much looking forward to see how the team plays back home with rest. Dre looked like a little mental rest would be helpful.
 

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