Gophers basketball: 'We want to make our coach (Tubby Smith) look good'

Donate To GopherHole
Rouser said:
I am fine with Teague making the call, keeping or letting go of Smith. But it should be Teague alone. If our out of touch, grey haired alumni are influencing this decision.. that is the one thing that would have me consider turning in my tickets. Why hire Teague in the first place.. and I assure you, there are not countless million dollar donors so I am guessing most alumni that complain donate thousands, not millions, of dollars. They should have zero affect on Teague's decision. Perhaps we should let a professional athletic director make the call.

Now, if Teague decides to keep tubby, will you support the team or just ask that teague be fired?
Click to expand...

If Teague does nothing, I will be disappointed. I was disappointed last year that Maturi gave Tubby an extension. That, however, does not have anything to do with supporting the team and those players who are giving their all. I simply wish that those players had a coach who was capable of teaching a motion offense where kids could get good looks at the basket, where isolations would take place and exploitation of the other teams weaknesses would be accomplished. I've heard players complain all season about needing more movement...and yet...we revert to standing and looking clueless. That lack of teaching/communication is on the coach and staff. The players execute what they have been taught.

I have always supported the team, but I don't support a coach who is failing to do his job. Remember, it was Tubby who said this was his best team ever at Minnesota. Ending the B1G season with a losing record, with his best team, is not something that anyone should laud.

Of course I support the team. But, I know it's really hard for a handful of posters to imagine that a person can criticize and support a team at the same time. For those who can't grasp that...there is nothing I can do for you.
 

We have heard on this thread two interesting (and, as Johnny aptly points out, unoriginal) arguments. Some people think that our team was a sub-.500 B1G team this year because the fans "accept mediocrity". Others seem to think that we are where we are because fans are too critical of the coach. I know that the word mediocre gets used a lot on here, but that is exactly what 8-10 in conference is, 6 of our conference peers had a better conference performance than we did, 3 of those peers had a worse one, and 2 of them had the same. It seems obvious to me that Coach Smith could have performed better, and he also could have performed worse. Either way, I refuse to believe that we are in the bottom half of the B1G because of either overly optimistic or overly pessimistic fans.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
We have heard on this thread two interesting (and, as Johnny aptly points out, unoriginal) arguments. Some people think that our team was a sub-.500 B1G team this year because the fans "accept mediocrity". Others seem to think that we are where we are because fans are too critical of the coach. I know that the word mediocre gets used a lot on here, but that is exactly what 8-10 in conference is, 6 of our conference peers had a better conference performance than we did, 3 of those peers had a worse one, and 2 of them had the same. It seems obvious to me that Coach Smith could have performed better, and he also could have performed worse. Either way, I refuse to believe that we are in the bottom half of the B1G because of either overly optimistic or overly pessimistic fans.
Click to expand...

Well, you're right, we fans have zero to do with the U of MN winning or losing basketball games.

We have never finished better than 6th in the B1G under Coach Smith. You can refuse to believe that or not, but what it tells everyone is that, we are in the bottom half of the B1G. (However, I will grant this...for the optimists...we are near the top of the bottom half.) This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism of the fan base. It has everything to do with pure data.
 

Rouser said:
I am fine with Teague making the call, keeping or letting go of Smith. But it should be Teague alone. If our out of touch, grey haired alumni are influencing this decision.. that is the one thing that would have me consider turning in my tickets. Why hire Teague in the first place.. and I assure you, there are not countless million dollar donors so I am guessing most alumni that complain donate thousands, not millions, of dollars. They should have zero affect on Teague's decision. Perhaps we should let a professional athletic director make the call.

Now, if Teague decides to keep tubby, will you support the team or just ask that teague be fired?
Click to expand...

I agree. My personal opinions aside, I trust Teague and Ellis will make the correct basketball decision regardless.

However, the only donor I could see with some major pull is Denny. If he says, here is 20 million for the practice facility. Ill give it to you if you fire Tubby. That'd be a tough voice for Teague to just tune out. But, in the end, I think he will do the right that. Regardless of what that ends up being.
 

The mediocrity thing is annoying , we all want the U to win at a high level. It's true tubby hasn't win the way we all expected or hoped for. However, tubby has won more than anyone else without cheating. The thing I'm more scared of than anything else is the U's terrible track record of hiring and firing. For some reason our favorite university is capable of ruining wet dreams. I have this terrible feeling that if/when tubby is removed our powers at be do something incredibly dumb. We have a track record...
 


tinyarch said:
If Teague does nothing, I will be disappointed. I was disappointed last year that Maturi gave Tubby an extension. That, however, does not have anything to do with supporting the team and those players who are giving their all. I simply wish that those players had a coach who was capable of teaching a motion offense where kids could get good looks at the basket, where isolations would take place and exploitation of the other teams weaknesses would be accomplished. I've heard players complain all season about needing more movement...and yet...we revert to standing and looking clueless. That lack of teaching/communication is on the coach and staff. The players execute what they have been taught.

I have always supported the team, but I don't support a coach who is failing to do his job. Remember, it was Tubby who said this was his best team ever at Minnesota. Ending the B1G season with a losing record, with his best team, is not something that anyone should laud.

Of course I support the team. But, I know it's really hard for a handful of posters to imagine that a person can criticize and support a team at the same time. For those who can't grasp that...there is nothing I can do for you.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with most of this.

My only issue is that I don't see the big ten record as the end all be all for measuring the coach. I'd weigh in the non conference where tubby has done very well. I'd weigh in home games as well in the Big 10 where Tubby has also done very well. The areas we haven't seen improvement are the Big 10 record overall (road games) and tournament success. I am fine with 7-11, 8-10 in the B1G if we make the tournament with regularity and have the occasional "run". So far there has been no run. I would like to see that happen this year.
 

We do have a track record, but we also have a new AD and, just like I gave Tubby 4 years of loyal support, I will give Teague the opportunity to change that track record. However, talk with me in 4 years to see if I my optimism around Teague has wained...

Lakesgopher wrote...
The mediocrity thing is annoying , we all want the U to win at a high level. It's true tubby hasn't win the way we all expected or hoped for. However, tubby has won more than anyone else without cheating. The thing I'm more scared of than anything else is the U's terrible track record of hiring and firing. For some reason our favorite university is capable of ruining wet dreams. I have this terrible feeling that if/when tubby is removed our powers at be do something incredibly dumb. We have a track record...
Click to expand...
 

tinyarch said:
We do have a track record, but we also have a new AD and, just like I gave Tubby 4 years of loyal support, I will give Teague the opportunity to change that track record. However, talk with me in 4 years to see if I my optimism around Teague has wained...
Click to expand...

This is why people need to just enjoy this season, and let the chips fall where they after it ends
 

lakesgopher said:
The mediocrity thing is annoying , we all want the U to win at a high level. It's true tubby hasn't win the way we all expected or hoped for. However, tubby has won more than anyone else without cheating. The thing I'm more scared of than anything else is the U's terrible track record of hiring and firing. For some reason our favorite university is capable of ruining wet dreams. I have this terrible feeling that if/when tubby is removed our powers at be do something incredibly dumb. We have a track record...
Click to expand...

It's simply not true, lakes. Just going back 35 years: Dutcher won a conference title and went to the Sweet 16 without cheating; Clem took his team to a Sweet Sixteen and a Final 8 without cheating; Monson finished in 4th place in the conference without cheating. Smith's teams have had their moments, but he's failed to accomplish any of the above. That's what people are talking about here. Three Tournament appearances in six years is notable, but there have been no high-water accomplishments in his six years on the job to match those of his three predecessors. Considering his salary and the expectations it and his resume entails, why are people so astonished by the grousing?
 



Bad Gopher said:
It's simply not true, lakes. Just going back 35 years: Dutcher won a conference title and went to the Sweet 16 without cheating; Clem took his team to a Sweet Sixteen and a Final 8 without cheating; Monson finished in 4th place in the conference without cheating. Smith's teams have had their moments, but he's failed to accomplish any of the above. That's what people are talking about here. Three Tournament appearances in six years is notable, but there have been no high-water accomplishments in his six years on the job to match those of his three predecessors. Considering his salary and the expectations it and his resume entails, why are people so astonished by the grousing?
Click to expand...

Agreed, mediocrity is the proper descriptor for the Tubby Smith era. If the semantics representing the truth annoy we can certainly break out the thesaurus.
 

How do u know Clem wasn't cheating at that time? Lol I'm sure Clem only cheated the year we went to the final four. Hahahahahahaha
 

lakesgopher said:
How do u know Clem wasn't cheating at that time? Lol I'm sure Clem only cheated the year we went to the final four. Hahahahahahaha
Click to expand...

There WAS a very thorough investigation, but I'm sure you know more and better. :rolleyes:
 




Bad Gopher said:
It's simply not true, lakes. Just going back 35 years: Dutcher won a conference title and went to the Sweet 16 without cheating; Clem took his team to a Sweet Sixteen and a Final 8 without cheating; Monson finished in 4th place in the conference without cheating. Smith's teams have had their moments, but he's failed to accomplish any of the above. That's what people are talking about here. Three Tournament appearances in six years is notable, but there have been no high-water accomplishments in his six years on the job to match those of his three predecessors. Considering his salary and the expectations it and his resume entails, why are people so astonished by the grousing?
Click to expand...

According to some, the team finished 5th in 2004-05. :rolleyes:
 


lakesgopher said:
How do u know Clem wasn't cheating at that time? Lol I'm sure Clem only cheated the year we went to the final four. Hahahahahahaha
Click to expand...

By that logic, how do you know Tubby isn't cheating now? Huh? How could you possibly know?
 

The best way to make your coach look good is to go out and do it, not talk about it.

Here's hoping the players and coaches deliver a tourney win that this program so desperately needs. This program needs to carry something positive into the off-season, regardless of the decision Teague ends up making.
 

scher215 said:
I actually agree with most of this.

My only issue is that I don't see the big ten record as the end all be all for measuring the coach. I'd weigh in the non conference where tubby has done very well. I'd weigh in home games as well in the Big 10 where Tubby has also done very well. The areas we haven't seen improvement are the Big 10 record overall (road games) and tournament success. I am fine with 7-11, 8-10 in the B1G if we make the tournament with regularity and have the occasional "run". So far there has been no run. I would like to see that happen this year.
Click to expand...

Accepting of less than mediocrity.

Wow.
 



scher215 said:
Damn tubby if he goes 7-11 in conference and goes to the final four. Damn him.

There is more to the season than 18 big 10 game.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't give you a trophy and let you hang a banner if it were as inconsequential as you say. It's a big deal to excel in your conference season and win a conference title. It's arguably the centerpiece of the total season.
 

Bad Gopher said:
They wouldn't give you a trophy and let you hang a banner if it were as inconsequential as you say. It's a big deal to excel in your conference season and win a conference title. It's arguably the centerpiece of the total season.
Click to expand...

I disagree, but just an opinion. I value tournament runs over conference success. I'd take 2 national championships over 2 big 10 titles every single time.
 

scher215 said:
I disagree, but just an opinion. I value tournament runs over conference success. I'd take 2 national championships over 2 big 10 titles every single time.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you misunderstood. I said the conference season was a big deal, and you reply that you would rather have a national championship. I believe they call that a non sequitur. Obviously those are not mutually exclusive.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Perhaps you misunderstood. I said the conference season was a big deal, and you reply that you would rather have a national championship. I believe they call that a non sequitur. Obviously those are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

Agreed, you'd expect a good team to excel in all three areas (non conference, conference, tournament). However, if tubby or any coach) can have the Gophers excelling against a strong non conference schedule and the tournament and is only average in the Big 10, I'm fine with it.

If we can have an undefeated non conference, with a strong strength of schedule, then go 9-9 in conference, with an elite 8 appearance. I'd call that a pretty successful year and no way i'd fire that coach. Ever. - if they did it consistently obviously.

That said, tubby has been average to below average in the big 10. Very good in the non conference, and somewhat average in the tournament. Would like to see an uptick in one of those areas, preferably the tournament, as going 18-0 in the big 10 with a first round exit isn't all that exciting to me.

Maybe it's because I hate the Big 10 and the stupid awful style of play many teams employ I don't value it as much. Personally, I hate the big 10 season. Would much rather watch us play Stanford, Memphis, Duke, USC, UCLA, etc. over Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, and 15 point halves. No thanks. I am thankful for Michigan and Indiana playing a little better style lately, but man, some of those games are brutal.
 

scher215 said:
Agreed, you'd expect a good team to excel in all three areas (non conference, conference, tournament). However, if tubby or any coach) can have the Gophers excelling against a strong non conference schedule and the tournament and is only average in the Big 10, I'm fine with it.

If we can have an undefeated non conference, with a strong strength of schedule, then go 9-9 in conference, with an elite 8 appearance. I'd call that a pretty successful year and no way i'd fire that coach. Ever. - if they did it consistently obviously.

That said, tubby has been average to below average in the big 10. Very good in the non conference, and somewhat average in the tournament. Would like to see an uptick in one of those areas, preferably the tournament, as going 18-0 in the big 10 with a first round exit isn't all that exciting to me.

Maybe it's because I hate the Big 10 and the stupid awful style of play many teams employ I don't value it as much. Personally, I hate the big 10 season. Would much rather watch us play Stanford, Memphis, Duke, USC, UCLA, etc. over Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, and 15 point halves. No thanks. I am thankful for Michigan and Indiana playing a little better style lately, but man, some of those games are brutal.
Click to expand...

I guess I have only one question here: How do you define "somewhat average" in the tournament? If you include his stints at other spots, then I would say overall he's actually been pretty good in the tournament for the most part. But here? He's never even won a first-round game and wasn't even really all that close in either one of them. Hard for me to call that "somewhat average." Rather, I would call that "doing nothing" in the tournament.
 

That said, tubby has been average to below average in the big 10. Very good in the non conference, and somewhat average in the tournament. Would like to see an uptick in one of those areas, preferably the tournament, as going 18-0 in the big 10 with a first round exit isn't all that exciting to me.
Click to expand...

Tubby has not been average in the tournament. With the talent this program has had over the past 6 years I would say he has been below average with the number of appearances he's made. With those appearances we have 0 wins thus far. Average would be an improvement.
 

MRJ said:
I guess I have only one question here: How do you define "somewhat average" in the tournament? If you include his stints at other spots, then I would say overall he's actually been pretty good in the tournament for the most part. But here? He's never even won a first-round game and wasn't even really all that close in either one of them. Hard for me to call that "somewhat average." Rather, I would call that "doing nothing" in the tournament.
Click to expand...

Depends what average you are comparing to I guess, as you allude to.

Is it compared to the Tubby Smith average? He's been horrendous here. Compared to the MN average? I'd say he's been somewhat around there. Depends how this year goes to though too. I haven't done the research to know what the true average of tourney success is for any given BCS team though. Personally, I'd like a sweet 16 every 4 years or so.
 

MRJ said:
I guess I have only one question here: How do you define "somewhat average" in the tournament? If you include his stints at other spots, then I would say overall he's actually been pretty good in the tournament for the most part. But here? He's never even won a first-round game and wasn't even really all that close in either one of them. Hard for me to call that "somewhat average." Rather, I would call that "doing nothing" in the tournament.
Click to expand...

I disagree that Tubby hasn't been close in either first round game. The game against Texas the squad was close into the second half. It got out of hand when AJ Abrams hit back-to-back-to-back-to-back threes in the second half. I still remember that vividly. The final score looked bad but I think the Gophers played Texas tough. It's tough to beat a team that shoots 55% from 3.

As for Xavier, they pulled within 6 with about a minute to play. Jordan Crawford buried the game with a 3 and then they added free throws after that. That game wasn't out of hand.

In each game Minnesota essentially got torched by the team's best players. Kudos to AJ Abrams and Jordan Crawford, both very good NCAAB players.
 

Heber said:
I disagree that Tubby hasn't been close in either first round game. The game against Texas the squad was close into the second half. It got out of hand when AJ Abrams hit back-to-back-to-back-to-back threes in the second half. I still remember that vividly. The final score looked bad but I think the Gophers played Texas tough. It's tough to beat a team that shoots 55% from 3.

As for Xavier, they pulled within 6 with about a minute to play. Jordan Crawford buried the game with a 3 and then they added free throws after that. That game wasn't out of hand.

In each game Minnesota essentially got torched by the team's best players. Kudos to AJ Abrams and Jordan Crawford, both very good NCAAB players.
Click to expand...

Those were both under-seeded teams and tough draws for the Gophers. Xavier went on to lose to KSU by only a hair, and Texas gave North Carolina all they could handle.

Not so this year. A favorable draw for the Gophers, and Tubby is on the spot to prepare his team. No excuses.
 

BleedGopher said:
"When things go good, everybody is praising you; when things go bad, you're going to get criticism and negativity," Hollins said. "We're playing for each other. We're playing for the guys in the locker room. We're playing for the University of Minnesota. We don't think about (Smith's job status). We don't worry about that."
Click to expand...

My respect for Dre just went up 10-fold based on this comment. Tells me that he is at the U because he wants to be here, and not because he was lured up here into the cold by Tubby.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom