Gopherhole's Sports Huddle Recap: Coach P.J. Fleck - 4/23/2017

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PMWinSTP said:
He did both.
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Question is he's already targeted guys and has 12 verbals so far. If he continues on that pace we will in the high teens to low 20's already verbally committed by the time games start. What happens if he gets into BIG play this season and realizes that he's recruiting the wrong type of athlete for a certain position. Is he then going to tell some of those verbally committed to look elsewhere so he can find "better" fits?
 

I have heard Fleck say he can mold Still into a star. He told Still that in one practice video they posted.

He has said similar things about Tyler Johnson.

He really only uses two/three guys.

He took Braverman who had one P5 offer to the NFL. He's got 12 guys ranked as good or Braverman.

He turned an unranked d2 transfer into a guy who is getting NFL looks in Thompson.

He hand-picked three recruits better ranked than he ever used at WMU.

Why are you guys so skeptical of Fleck's recruiting and coaching abilities?
 

One poster offers a scenario where early commits may not be the way to go and the PJF police somehow take offense and come out swinging.


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swingman said:
I have heard Fleck say he can mold Still into a star. He told Still that in one practice video they posted.

He has said similar things about Tyler Johnson.

He really only uses two/three guys.

He took Braverman who had one P5 offer to the NFL. He's got 12 guys ranked as good or Braverman.

He turned an unranked d2 transfer into a guy who is getting NFL looks in Thompson.

He hand-picked three recruits better ranked than he ever used at WMU.

Why are you guys so skeptical of Fleck's recruiting and coaching abilities?
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I'm skeptical of the previous staff's ability to recruit receivers and quarterbacks that is about it.
 

With previous staff it was more so developing them that was the issue. I believe they recruited some quality players at the WR position. QB not so much. Croft could be one.
 


Spoofin said:
One poster offers a scenario where early commits may not be the way to go and the PJF police somehow take offense and come out swinging.


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Who took offense to that comment? Everyone replied to the 10+ win guy after he brought up a talking point that had nothing to with the posters comment. You should really get new materiel.
 

Halsey Hall said:
Actually, I think Sid is doing better. Maybe they were able to doctor his responses to what Fleck said but he seemed to hear him clearly. One thing Fleck said is that in the future there will be more seniors leaving high school and enrolling early for spring practice.

I can remember when Wacker was the coach and Sid said Minnesota can't recruit nationally because we are too far away from talent areas. I'm glad that Fleck will disprove this notion over and over.
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It's also a completely different era with Twitter and HUDL. Sawvel used to say with HUDL you don't ever have to go to sleep. You can stay up and view recruit films 24 hours a day.
None of that was available 20 years ago, or even during part of Mase's tenure. Coaches were mostly dependent on contacts in areas with a lot of talent (Stoll liked Michigan, PA, KY and NC, all places he had coached. Wacker like Texas, and Mase liked Ohio, and St Louis because Browning had great contacts there.)
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yes, the tailgate lots are active...could it be better...absolutely. I usually get to TCF 1 1/2 hours early, take the Green line from StP, which goes by the tailgate lots on the east side, and tailgating is in full swing. I also have been invited the last couple years to big time parties in those lots and also just walked through and got pulled into a party. Good time. I'd be willing to bet if you had a six-pack in tow, many set up in the tailgate lots would welcome you.
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I'd love to check out the lots near TCF, but parking is more expensive than tickets to the game there. I went on a road trip to IL this year and they open up the area right next to the stadium free of charge to tailgate. Bring in live bands, family activities, etc. It is so much fun there that a lot of setups don't even bother with the game. They likely would if IL was any good - but the game day atmosphere <I>outside</I> the stadium is way better than anything the U has and the team and tradition is worse. We have all come to enjoy the tailgating we do before games at TCF - but after being to 9 B1G stadiums, jNW is the only game day atmosphere I've seen worse than ours, IMO.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Sure anyone can find players to use. Being successful against B1G defenses, most of which are good, is entirely different.

You continually post that our offense is loaded, yet I find it hard to believe you've watched one minute of our offense the last 6 years. Talent is lacking at QB, WR, OL, and TE if Lingen cannot play. Woz stuggles to catch the ball and is slow. Beebe is also slow and not very athletic for a TE.

Corey Davis will be the first or second WR taken in this year's draft. The Gophers haven't had a WR drafted since Decker, who was also an underrated recruit.

I have a lot of confidence in Simon and Fleck and their ability to develop WRs, but that doesn't mean they can just take anyone and turn them into a star. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.
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Basically went .500 against B1G teams the past two years at WMU.
 



Spoofin said:
I'd love to check out the lots near TCF, but parking is more expensive than tickets to the game there. I went on a road trip to IL this year and they open up the area right next to the stadium free of charge to tailgate. Bring in live bands, family activities, etc. It is so much fun there that a lot of setups don't even bother with the game. They likely would if IL was any good - but the game day atmosphere <I>outside</I> the stadium is way better than anything the U has and the team and tradition is worse. We have all come to enjoy the tailgating we do before games at TCF - but after being to 9 B1G stadiums, jNW is the only game day atmosphere I've seen worse than ours, IMO.


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For a couple games last season, I have enjoyed parking at Surly to pre and post game. A short walk to the stadium with lots of fans. Great beer and food.

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GFBfan said:
Question is he's already targeted guys and has 12 verbals so far. If he continues on that pace we will in the high teens to low 20's already verbally committed by the time games start. What happens if he gets into BIG play this season and realizes that he's recruiting the wrong type of athlete for a certain position. Is he then going to tell some of those verbally committed to look elsewhere so he can find "better" fits?
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He would most likely have to do that regardless if he changes systems, which would be a way-too-early discussion even after this year. Many on the current roster played for two OCs with differing systems and Fleck has said these players already fit his system as well.
 

Hates Monikers said:
I'm told by people on this board that the lots around the stadium are full and even used by many to tailgate. I'll take their word for it; I pay $10 at East River Flats, so I'm not up there. However, the atmosphere could be better. As we make the 15- to 20-minute walk from our party to the stadium, we see very little maroon and gold -- and no partying -- along the way, until we hit Oak Street. For much of that walk, many people would be surprised to know to know there's an event happening.

To make it more festive, they could work with the city to allow tailgating in private lots in Stadium Village. But that would compete with the U's take. Using the open space around the Alumni Center has been discussed here before. They could do more with tailgating and pre-gaming if they wanted to. They don't want to.
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That's the key. The last sentence. They don't want to do it will not change. The U is much too conservative.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
And has less offensive talent at MN this year. So yeah 4-5 in the B1G seems about right this year.
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No he doesn't. If you want to argue a position or two, fine. The overall talent top to bottom here is better, no question. Fleck's last three recruiting classes roughly ranked an average of 15 spots below the Gophs. It is light years different playing in a mid-major where the in conference competition is not strong, and drops off dramatically after the next best team.
 

PMWinSTP said:
No he doesn't. If you want to argue a position or two, fine. The overall talent top to bottom here is better, no question. Fleck's last three recruiting classes roughly ranked an average of 15 spots below the Gophs. It is light years different playing in a mid-major where the in conference competition is not strong, and drops off dramatically after the next best team.
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NFL talent on offense. The Gophers have never had a receiver drafted as high as Davis will be. Moton and Beavers are better than any offensive lineman we've had in 10 years. Terrell is better than any QB we've had in recent memory. Western Michigan had/has more offensive talent and it's not even an argument.

On top of that, I don't think any of this year's Gopher seniors will get drafted, especially on offense. That would be the first time that's happened since 2013.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
NFL talent on offense. The Gophers have never had a receiver drafted as high as Davis will be. Moton and Beavers are better than any offensive lineman we've had in 10 years. Terrell is better than any QB we've had in recent memory. Western Michigan had/has more offensive talent and it's not even an argument.

On top of that, I don't think any of this year's Gopher seniors will get drafted, especially on offense. That would be the first time that's happened since 2013.
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Judging a college football team's talent by NFL draft picks seems extremely myopic.
 


All of the cheap tailgating and mostly family's and hardcore fans are either at the State Farigrounds lots near the St Paul campus, or the East River Flats by the boathouse. The tailgating by the stadium sucks because the donations and parking passes are outpriced for the market plain and simple. A lot of those spots sit empty because the U charges to much, that and it sucks getting of campus once you do tailgate down by the stadium.
 




GFBfan said:
Miami of Fl
Florida
North Carolina
Arkansas
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Define not so good? 2011-2015 drafts means the 2010-2014 seasons. All of those schools had at least 5 more wins than Minnesota during those seasons.
 

GFBfan said:
Miami of Fl
Florida
North Carolina
Arkansas
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Three of those four programs have had more recent success than Minnesota, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they've had more NFL talent (and this 5-year window just missed Arkansas going 21-5 in the previous two years)

Records, last 5 years
Florida: 41-23
N. Carolina: 40-25
Miami: 39-25
Minnesota: 37-28
Arkansas: 29-34
 


I think his point is that teams like Florida that won 4 games in 2013 still had 8 guys drafted that year. Think about that -how does that even happen? Muschamp inherited incredible levels of talent and outside of one good year he severely underperformed. I don't know if it's scheme, game management, development, "culture", but the guy in charge matters even when top shelf talent is all over the roster. Florida was near the very top in recruiting for many years, probably still is. Spurrier won, Meyer won, McElwain is winning, while Zook and Muschamp underperformed. Maybe just crazy chance but doesn't seem like it.
 

joshvanklomp said:
Three of those four programs have had more recent success than Minnesota, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they've had more NFL talent (and this 5-year window just missed Arkansas going 21-5 in the previous two years)

Records, last 5 years
Florida: 41-23
N. Carolina: 40-25
Miami: 39-25
Minnesota: 37-28
Arkansas: 29-34
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NC: 2014 6-7 No Draft picks, 2013 7-6 5 picks, 2012 8-4 5 picks, 2011 7-6 2 picks, 2010 8-5 9 picks

Arkansas: 2014 7-6 5 picks, 2013 3-9 4 picks, 2012 4-8 4 picks, 2011 11-2 4 picks, 2010 10-3 3 picks

Florida: 2014 7-5 8 picks, 2013 4-8 4 picks, 2012 11-2 8 picks, 2011 7-6 2 picks, 2010 8-5 4 picks

Miami: 2014 6-7 7 picks, 2013 9-4 3 picks, 2012 7-5 2 picks, 2011 6-6 6 picks, 2010 7-6 8 picks

and for comparison to the U,
Minnesota: 2014 8-5 4 picks, 2013 8-5 2 picks, 2012 6-7 no picks, 2011 3-9 no picks, 2010 3-9 No picks .
So those teams I selected are some examples where NFL level talent doesn't always equate to a successful college team.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Why did you throw Florida and North Carolina in that group? Florida wins the SEC East almost every year.
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From 2010 to 2014, which is the table showing draft picks, Florida was the SEC East Champion only once. Therefore I "threw" them in there.
NC was few games over 500 during that time frame, so that is why they were thrown in.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It's good to see we have plans to improve the game-day experience.............wait, .haven't we heard this before?

Seriously, as I recall, the last 3 AD's and last 4 head coaches have talked about improving the game-day atmosphere. Let's be honest - if the U of M wants a better game-day atmosphere, they're going to have to loosen the reins and allow more tailgating, including tailgating in different areas, and at student housing. If you go to IA, WI - any other B1G school - game day is an event. At MN, it's like a well-kept secret, because the U of M doesn't want people - especially students - to have too much fun. And then, they wonder why people don't show up or act more excited. It's like a librarian saying she wants people to have more fun at the library - as long as they don't talk too loud.
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Great post. I was horrified when I went to Madison, at how much fun it was. I wanted to hate it so bad, but it was like Mardi Gras in Wisconsin. One memory that sticks with me was walking down State St. where the upstairs of a college party house had music rocking & they had beer bongs descending down to the street, where they were encouraging passersby to take a swig. I remember telling my friend "You'd be expelled at the U for having that much fun.". Game day is not all about alcohol of course, but the U game day is pretty tame compared to many others.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I think his point is that teams like Florida that won 4 games in 2013 still had 8 guys drafted that year. Think about that -how does that even happen?
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You think it's strange that a school with 8 players drafted in April only won 4 games later that fall? Were they supposed to get better after all that NFL talent left the team?
 

Mea culpa if that's the case - didn't look that closely at it. Still an off year by Florida standards. He had a couple 7 win seasons and that 4 win season despite a roster of 4 and 5 stars.
 

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