gopherbadgerman
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Maybe to 100th or so, they are not jumping into the top 20. Even if they are coached better and give great effort, the phyiscal talent is not there.
Gopher Potential Portal Pursuits
- Thread starter Otis
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How do you know that the physical talent isn't there? We have 12 guys- 6 transfers in, 4 returners and 2 freshmen. Betts we haven't hardly seen, the 6 transfers, we don't know and the two frosh we don't know. That leaves 3 returners we know- all of which have the physical talent to play good defense.
MNVCGUY
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You have been around here long enough to know that there are posters who know exactly how everything is going to play out beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I would guess the post is based on the fact that from any transfer portal you look at talent wise what was brought in was below what left the program. Thus the talent level has declined.
Off-GridTNgopher
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Why hasn't Betts played in the 2 yrs in the program... Again people thinking Betts is gunna come out here and be adequate... There's a learning curve to playing bball in the B1G... How many times did he see action once big boy ball started....
From a points scored at this level point of view- the talent has decreased. From a potential point of view- the talent has decreased. From a standpoint of the overall quality of the ball player- we don't know if that has decreased from last year or not. In fact, it may have increased.
As I have said- if I had a choice for this coming year of having a chance to see the guys we had improve and this year, individually and as a team- I would be thrilled. That said, I think this coming year's bunch has a chance to be better than last year's team was based on the information we have about the incoming players' defensive reputations and rebounding as well as their offensive stats.
No doubt last year's team had more potential for upside and perhaps could have been a top 4 team in the Big Ten. Could the new squad go 11-9 or 12-8? Maybe if they gel as a team and are a lot better defensively. Last year we were BAD at defense- borderline dreadful. Our ability was to outscore the other team. My hope for the coming year is to be decent on offense and excellent on defense and rebounding.
I am not staking the coming season on Betts. I am also not ruling out that a 19 year old kid that was behind Fox/Ola Joseph and Garcia at the 4 spot might come into his own and contribute after having to wait his turn.
Objective rankings of the transfers say we lost the most net talent of anyone in the B1G. We lost a lot more than we got back. Can those be wrong? Yes. Are they likely to be wrong by the degree needed for this team to be legitimately good? No. There's a reason we're being picked to finish 16th in the B1G.
I just read right here that we were somewhere between the 105th and 180th rated defense last year according to objective rankings. Based on the players we are bringing versus the ones we lost, I think it is more than a little reasonable to expect we will improve defensively. I also recall us being picked unanimously for 14th last year. While I don't view a .500 or better record in the Big 18 as likely this coming year, I haven't ruled it out either.
The defense should be better. It could hardly be worse. But the offense will not be nearly as good.
We were picked 14th and finished 10th. This year maybe we'll be picked 16th and finish 12th.
10-10 in the B1G might be possible, but it's the absolute best case scenario. 2-3 wins is the worst case. And 6-7 is most likely.
MNVCGUY
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We will need the majority of the unknowns about next years squad to break in our favor for the team to improve and be in the mix for a tournament berth. And while it might be a longshot it absolutely could happen. We just have a number of posters here that can't even allow themselves to hope for the best because they are so sure it won't happen.
And they may well be right. I just think that basketball is played on two ends of the court and nobody considers defense when they think of the players that compose a team.
Odukale is going to be a definite upgrade, on defense, over Christie at his position. Rigsby is a good defender and Patterson will be a better defender than Hawkins. We had a team last year that had a number of really good offensive outings and they still couldn't win because their defense was so bad. Everyone thinks about is how fun the three players- Hawkins, Payne and Christie were to watch. They were.
Christie, when you consider just what he was last year, was an average Big Ten player, a really good shooter who could not drive to the basket and was a minus defender. Hawkins was better, but a real mismatch on defense due to size. Payne is still the toughest loss for me and we did pretty well there with Mitchell.
There is nothing in Ben's resume that tells us that he will field a good defensive team. His 3 squads so far have been terrible at it- they have made Pitino seem like the Dick Bennet of defensive coaches. So that's the X factor. Can he, with his job depending on it, put together a top 50 defensive squad? There is plenty of reason to doubt it but he has at least recruited some guys who appear to have done it in the past.
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There are a lot here that feel that way for one simple reason. Over the course of the past three season the roster has had to be remade every year. With every year, the results have been poor to just below fair. There is one common denominator in all of this, the coach. At this point he doesn't inspire a lot of hope for numerous people on the board here.
I really enjoyed what he did with his first group. I had good feelings that maybe he could do something as a home grown son. Over the past two years with better talent those thoughts have disappeared. Coaching matters, maybe in 10 years he will have grown some coaching chops, right now he is short on what is needed at a power conference.
Spaulding!No!
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The Xavier HC that Ben assisted for is now the HC at Miami of Ohio.
There is a difference between posters who don't believe the team could be decent and those who desperately don't want the team to be better. Howdy and the Bashers have an absolute need for any Ben Johnson team to fail.
It's really a shame you are so disappointed at last year's team for going from two to nine conference wins. How do you stand it?
Fascinating.
TwistingMyMelon
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No, there is more than one common denominator. There are at least two: Ben Johnson and cash poor. With your characteristic simple mindedness, you naturally prefer easy solo targets. Maybe you can figure out a way to blame him for the prevailing high interest rates. I'm sure you believe that the NIL donations would come rolling in if Johnson wasn't the coach but I'd say that's debatable.
TwistingMyMelon
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There is no point arguing with people who have their minds made up. Gopherbadgerman was dead wrong on predicting last season but I doubt things like that ever cause him to second guess himself. Like Howe, he's thoroughly predictable but a little less annoying because he's not as ubiquitous and relentless.
The last 3 coaches Ben worked for:
Xavier to Miami of Ohio
Minnesota to New Mexico
Nebraska to San Jose State
Seems to be a trend there.
Sounds like you've cooled on them.
Nope. I am very high on the potential of Christie and Payne, and Hawkins was already a really good PG for us (with defensive limitations). As a matter of fact I have clearly stated that I would much prefer what we would have had next year with the old core group- because that group has a higher potential ceiling. What I am saying is that we could easily be as good or better than last year with this new group if we defend at a far better level.Sounds like you've cooled on them.
Rocksoldier
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MNVCGUY
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I fully understand the negativity and pessimism around Gopher Basketball. But not a single one of us knows how this coming season is going to go or how this new collection of players is going to mesh together.
Some of us want to see them in action before giving up.....others are content to give up before the team even takes the court. Too each their own I guess.
hahahahaha. So you consider a better job to be a step down or backwards? Chalk another one up for the apologist.
So that there is no confusion, going from a power conference to a mid major would be a step down or backwards.
So that there is no confusion, going from a power conference to a mid major would be a step down or backwards.
I was happy for them, truly I was. Unfortunately you have missed most of where my "how do I stand it" points have come from.
The national pundits who for the most part have a finger much closer to the pulse than you or I when it comes to transfers and talent. I have not come across one yet that states that the Gopher incoming transfers are more talented than what left the program. Have you? If so I would certainly love to see it.
The majority of people on this forum believe that last years team was Ben's most talented group. Would you agree with that?
Now in comparison his first two teams were less talented. Would you agree with that?
So we look to the people who are a teeny bit less bias than the majority here on this board to inform us on what type of talent the Gopher are bringing in. Those pundits, from what I have witness to date, have told college BB fans around the country which teams have had the most success in the portal and which ones have not. The Gopher unfortunately are part of the "have nots".
It truly am
It truly amazes me how absolutely spot on you are with everyone of your takes. PHENOMENAL. Please, please keep them coming.
BarnBurner
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Joj didn't hardly play beeg. If Betts was ready or good enough he would have played.