Gopher fan post that perfectly sums up the Tubby Smith situation

[dpodoll68]

I was researching old threads on the football board (looking at terrible posts by a terrible poster), and came across this gem. It was in reference to Tim Brewster, but the words "Tubby Smith" were screaming out in my head as I read it. A great post from a great poster:

I just don't understand why some people wanted him to fail so badly. How can one be a Gopher fan and yet want coaching staff after coaching staff to fail just so they could say they were right?

I couldn't have stated it better myself. I hope those of you who bemoan the fact that Tubby Smith is allowed to live and breathe on this Earth never get what you want. Those of us who really are Gopher fans want him to have the chance to coach a team with no impactful transfers, no major and devastating injuries, and let the chips fall where they may. You want him to go down in flames so that you can say you were right. Some "Gopher fans" you really are.

 

[Dr.Don]

I was researching old threads on the football board (looking at terrible posts by a terrible poster), and came across this gem. It was in reference to Tim Brewster, but the words "Tubby Smith" were screaming out in my head as I read it. A great post from a great poster:



I couldn't have stated it better myself. I hope those of you who bemoan the fact that Tubby Smith is allowed to live and breathe on this Earth never get what you want. Those of us who really are Gopher fans want him to have the chance to coach a team with no impactful transfers, no major and devastating injuries, and let the chips fall where they may. You want him to go down in flames so that you can say you were right. Some "Gopher fans" you really are.

Don't forget dpodoll, that when posters like you and me complain about the incessant "hope the Gophers fail" complainers, get personally attacked, called childish names, all in the name of never-ending negativism just to be contemptuous pains in the ass.

But I find it very difficult to make sense out of some of the nonsense that our never ending bellyachers display just to get in their last words, which never change, all in the name of "I am the only one in step, the rest of the Army is out of step" attitudes.

 

[SelectionSunday]

That's really the main problem I have with any chat board. It's difficult to find folks who can look at things form the middle ground. There's too many "lunatic fringe" at both ends of the spectrum.

Way too often this place is more about being right than it is just talking (figuratively) about Gophers/college basketball, without an agenda. The number of pi**ing matches (try to avoid them, but occasionally I get sucked in) that occur here, all to say "I was right and you were wrong" or "I'm smarter than you are", borders on insanity.

There's a reason why EQUALLY I can't stomach folks who are on here all the time telling us how much Tubby sucks, as well as the ones who think Tubby walks on water. There's a reason I was grateful when the mods banned FOT. His drivel was every bit as sickening as the vitriol being spewed daily by some of Tubby's biggest detractors on GH. There's a middle ground, it's just rare that you'll get to discuss it.

 

[GoodasGold]

That's really the main problem I have with any chat board. It's difficult to find folks who can look at things form the middle ground. There's too many "lunatic fringe" folks at both ends of the spectrum.

Way too often this place is more about being right than it is just talking (figuratively) about Gophers/college basketball, without an agenda. The number of pi**ing matches (try to avoid them, but occasionally I get sucked in) that occur here, all to say "I was right and you were wrong" or "I'm smarter than you are", borders on insanity.

There's a reason why EQUALLY I can't stomach folks who are on here all the time telling us how much Tubby sucks, as well as the ones who think Tubby walks on water. There's a reason I was grateful when the mods banned FOT. His drivel was every bit as sickening as the vitriol being spewed daily by some of Tubby's biggest detractors on GH. There's a middle ground, but it's nearly impossible to be discussed here.

Now who in the world could that be?

 

[NurumbiCongo]

That's really the main problem I have with any chat board. It's difficult to find folks who can look at things form the middle ground. There's too many "lunatic fringe" folks at both ends of the spectrum.

Way too often this place is more about being right than it is just talking (figuratively) about Gophers/college basketball, without an agenda. The number of pi**ing matches (try to avoid them, but occasionally I get sucked in) that occur here, all to say "I was right and you were wrong" or "I'm smarter than you are", borders on insanity.

There's a reason why EQUALLY I can't stomach folks who are on here all the time telling us how much Tubby sucks, as well as the ones who think Tubby walks on water. There's a reason I was grateful when the mods banned FOT. His drivel was every bit as sickening as the vitriol being spewed daily by some of Tubby's biggest detractors on GH. There's a middle ground, but it's nearly impossible to be discussed here.

I've had it with the "I was not wrong" folks.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I think there are some lunatics on the fringe who want Tubby to fail, but wanting him to be fired does not automatically mean that someone wants him to fail. A distinction does need to be drawn between people who say "I think Tubby is the wrong guy, and I hope he loses so we can be rid of him" and those who say "I hope Tubby wins and proves me wrong, but right now it seems like he is the wrong guy and we should be rid of him as soon as possible so we can move one."

I am in neither of the camps I just described. I have been disappointed in his performance so far, but am intrigued at some of the young talent, so I want to see next season before I pass judgement. Also, after a postseason win last night, I am excited to see what kind of a run we can make in the NIT.

 

[scools12]

Of course it would be better if he succeed here rather than fail. I am not on the far end of either side of the spectrum but I still don't believe in Andy Katz's take that Tubby has done "wonders" this year. If he has in fact done wonders that doesn't say a whole about the current roster if 6-12 in conference is a considered a wonder. The debacle at home against Indiana should never be tolerated and probably was the worst home performance I have ever seen by the Gophers.

 

[goldengophers]

We are all wrong up to this point, this isn't a Brewster situation where some were on board at the start and others weren't, everyone was on board. I can't honestly say I've ever met a person who wanted Tubby to fail, but I met many who wanted Brewster to fail from jump street.

 

[jamalo]

Don't forget dpodoll, that when posters like you and me complain about the incessant "hope the Gophers fail" complainers, get personally attacked, called childish names, all in the name of never-ending negativism just to be contemptuous pains in the ass.

That is a ridiculously broad brush. People who think Tubby has underperformed "hope the Gophers fail"? Gopher4Life (may he rest in peace) was perhaps one of the most passionate Gopher fans on the board, and a lot of the grief that he took was because he demanded expected excellence from coaches like Monson. Monson didn't want to invest the time in recruiting, and Tubby has shown signs of that as well, which is frankly unacceptable for any school (BCS or otherwise).

 

[zambam]

Why do so many people on here think that if a coach isn't landing top players he isn't putting enough time into recruiting?

 

[BarnBurner]

I was researching old threads on the football board (looking at terrible posts by a terrible poster), and came across this gem. It was in reference to Tim Brewster, but the words "Tubby Smith" were screaming out in my head as I read it. A great post from a great poster:



I couldn't have stated it better myself. I hope those of you who bemoan the fact that Tubby Smith is allowed to live and breathe on this Earth never get what you want. Those of us who really are Gopher fans want him to have the chance to coach a team with no impactful transfers, no major and devastating injuries, and let the chips fall where they may. You want him to go down in flames so that you can say you were right. Some "Gopher fans" you really are.

You love to confuse the issues. Being a Gopher fan and stating the reality of the state of the program in any negative light is not possible?

I call BS.

Monson was fired since he didnt get the necessary results, fill the barn, etc.

Tubby was hired, a big name coach, and has achieved mostly the same results.

Your post drips with excuses. Leave them behind chief.

Half a decade without an NCAA win. That is the only thing that matters.

 

[jamalo]

The criticisms that I have heard on him is that he and the staff are too indecisive when it comes to deciding whether to offer and that he doesn't get out there on the road enough personally during the actual recruitment phase. I have no "proof"; that is just what some of the supposed insiders have indicated. That being said, he appears to have put in a great deal of effort with Tyus and Vaughn, although one could argue that Izzo has even surpassed that.

 

[rychart45]

I think my biggest gripe is with the people who say "We only lost one player this year - we should be able to survive losing one player" as if Trevor was some run of the mill 4 man. He is easily the best frontcourt player we've had since Humphries, and that's only if you think Humphries wasn't a complete cancer (he was). It's hard for a program like ours to lose such a rare talent. I don't think Tubby walks on water, but I do think he deserves one year where his most important player isn't injured before we judge him.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I've been critical of Tubby, but it's based on my experience of watching basketball, and being around coaches for nearly 40 years. One of my major standards for judging a coach is whether his or her teams get better during the season. When a team improves, it suggests to me that the players get what the coach is teaching, accept it, and are trying to put it into practice. When a team does not improve, or goes backwards, it suggests that the players don't buy into the coach's philosophy, or even worse, are openly rejecting it. Until the last 2 or 3 games, I honestly did not believe that this year's Gopher team was showing improvement in key areas (ballhandling, decision-making, etc.). Compare that to Kill's FB team, which clearly improved as the season went on.

The last couple of games have me feeling a glimmer of hope, so I'm willing to give Tubby a chance to prove me wrong.

 

[Rosemountian]

Tubby has been much better the past 3 weeks. He's shortened the rotation. Stopped playing maverick. And only has played Ingram because of ralph's injury.
Those are the 3 things I had been complaining about. Had we used this rotation the whole year we are 8-10 minimum.

If tubby has figured out he has a 9 man team not an 11 man team and we don't lose anyone in the offseason I'll go into next year with zero negativity.

 

[Stan]

Half a decade without an NCAA win. That is the only thing that matters.

Totally agree and that is why the Minnesota AD and the Long Beach State AD should both be looking for new coaches. Each has a coach that hasn't won an NCAA tournament game in half a decade. That is the only thing that matters. This Chief gets it. And only one of those two has won an NIT game. For shame Monson. I never thought I'd agree with Burnee on the hoops board but we finally do.

 

[zambam]

So BB is mad about Tubby not winning a NCAA game in 5 years when the last official win was like 22 years ago?

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

We are all wrong up to this point, this isn't a Brewster situation where some were on board at the start and others weren't, everyone was on board. I can't honestly say I've ever met a person who wanted Tubby to fail, but I met many who wanted Brewster to fail from jump street.

Completely disagree. Tubby came in with a wave of Ky haters posting all over our board about how we were doomed now & there were many Gopher fans (most of them very young) who were very vocal in not wanting Tubby here & have done nothing but undermine him so that they can say "I told you so" if it doesn't work out.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The criticisms that I have heard on him is that he and the staff are too indecisive when it comes to deciding whether to offer and that he doesn't get out there on the road enough personally during the actual recruitment phase. I have no "proof"; that is just what some of the supposed insiders have indicated. That being said, he appears to have put in a great deal of effort with Tyus and Vaughn, although one could argue that Izzo has even surpassed that.

I've also heard he's not recruiting hard enough (usually while he's home fund raising for a practice facility), not putting enough effort into fund raising for a new practice facility (when he's out recruiting), that he can't recruit, can't retain, can't develop, can't choose adequate assistant coaches, is too passive, is too aggressive, subs too much, doesn't sub enough, players "hate" him, players "hate" his style, that the game has passed him by, that he was never good to begin with, and about 20 more.

 

[goldengophers]

So BB is mad about Tubby not winning a NCAA game in 5 years when the last official win was like 22 years ago?

I'm mad Steve Alford has two Tourny victories in his step down job.

 

[goldengophers]

Completely disagree. Tubby came in with a wave of Ky haters posting all over our board about how we were doomed now & there were many Gopher fans (most of them very young) who were very vocal in not wanting Tubby here & have done nothing but undermine him so that they can say "I told you so" if it doesn't work out.

I don't care about Kentucky fans. What age is a young Gopher fan?

 

[Mulligan]

Until the last 2 or 3 games, I honestly did not believe that this year's Gopher team was showing improvement in key areas (ballhandling, decision-making, etc.). Compare that to Kill's FB team, which clearly improved as the season went on.

The last couple of games have me feeling a glimmer of hope, so I'm willing to give Tubby a chance to prove me wrong.

Seems valid ... but ...

Both last year and this year Tubby's team has had to adjust to major losses during the year. It's going to take any coach time to learn and adjust. Some people just brush that off as excuse making, but it's a fact. Tubby didn't figure it out last year after Joseph quit and then Al got hurt, but I'm not sure there were pieces there to figure it out. Yes, that's on him, but how many teams could lose their top two guards and still compete in a tough conference? This year, he has been more flexible; they have improved; but he also had more pieces.

Kill's team improved, but you could also make the point they had a lot more room with which to improve. The basketball team wasn't steamrolling anyone, but they were winning when Trevor went down. Also, at a critical time Andre was bothered by an injury which put things backs. Take Gray off the football team, and I'm not too sure people would be singing praises about how much the football team improved last season compared to Tubby's team.

Fact is, both sports are offering glimmers of hope for next year. Fact is, we also are in a spot where our margin for error or bad luck isn't very great and it can go to hell quickly again. But I've been a fan also for a long time and this is the most optimistic I've been about the combined state of Gopher sports since I don't know when. Tubby has a track record, Kill seems like the real deal and there's a great stadium instead of a dump, Lucia has gotten things turned around, we've got an Olympic coach coming in for volleyball, and, most important, we finally have a president who seems genuinely committed to improving the athletic program. Also, even though I go out of my way to defend Maturi, there's no doubt his leaving provides a great chance to give a boost to the program.

I think what often happens here is that there are a few people who stir things up here with their obnoxious, persistent posts, and then people with different views get more and more sucked in. Pretty soon, there's a verbal war going on where people forget that almost most of us are actually on the same side. That's the side that wants to see the Gophers do well.

 

[Cayman]

Seems valid ... but ...

Both last year and this year Tubby's team has had to adjust to major losses during the year. It's going to take any coach time to learn and adjust. Some people just brush that off as excuse making, but it's a fact. Tubby didn't figure it out last year after Joseph quit and then Al got hurt, but I'm not sure there were pieces there to figure it out. Yes, that's on him, but how many teams could lose their top two guards and still compete in a tough conference? This year, he has been more flexible; they have improved; but he also had more pieces.

Kill's team improved, but you could also make the point they had a lot more room with which to improve. The basketball team wasn't steamrolling anyone, but they were winning when Trevor went down. Also, at a critical time Andre was bothered by an injury which put things backs. Take Gray off the football team, and I'm not too sure people would be singing praises about how much the football team improved last season compared to Tubby's team.

Fact is, both sports are offering glimmers of hope for next year. Fact is, we also are in a spot where our margin for error or bad luck isn't very great and it can go to hell quickly again. But I've been a fan also for a long time and this is the most optimistic I've been about the combined state of Gopher sports since I don't know when. Tubby has a track record, Kill seems like the real deal and there's a great stadium instead of a dump, Lucia has gotten things turned around, we've got an Olympic coach coming in for volleyball, and, most important, we finally have a president who seems genuinely committed to improving the athletic program. Also, even though I go out of my way to defend Maturi, there's no doubt his leaving provides a great chance to give a boost to the program.

I think what often happens here is that there are a few people who stir things up here with their obnoxious, persistent posts, and then people with different views get more and more sucked in. Pretty soon, there's a verbal war going on where people forget that almost most of us are actually on the same side. That's the side that wants to see the Gophers do well.

+1000 Great post

 

[howieramone]

Seems valid ... but ...

Both last year and this year Tubby's team has had to adjust to major losses during the year. It's going to take any coach time to learn and adjust. Some people just brush that off as excuse making, but it's a fact. Tubby didn't figure it out last year after Joseph quit and then Al got hurt, but I'm not sure there were pieces there to figure it out. Yes, that's on him, but how many teams could lose their top two guards and still compete in a tough conference? This year, he has been more flexible; they have improved; but he also had more pieces.

Kill's team improved, but you could also make the point they had a lot more room with which to improve. The basketball team wasn't steamrolling anyone, but they were winning when Trevor went down. Also, at a critical time Andre was bothered by an injury which put things backs. Take Gray off the football team, and I'm not too sure people would be singing praises about how much the football team improved last season compared to Tubby's team.

Fact is, both sports are offering glimmers of hope for next year. Fact is, we also are in a spot where our margin for error or bad luck isn't very great and it can go to hell quickly again. But I've been a fan also for a long time and this is the most optimistic I've been about the combined state of Gopher sports since I don't know when. Tubby has a track record, Kill seems like the real deal and there's a great stadium instead of a dump, Lucia has gotten things turned around, we've got an Olympic coach coming in for volleyball, and, most important, we finally have a president who seems genuinely committed to improving the athletic program. Also, even though I go out of my way to defend Maturi, there's no doubt his leaving provides a great chance to give a boost to the program.

I think what often happens here is that there are a few people who stir things up here with their obnoxious, persistent posts, and then people with different views get more and more sucked in. Pretty soon, there's a verbal war going on where people forget that almost most of us are actually on the same side. That's the side that wants to see the Gophers do well.

+1

 

[howeda7]

I never 'wanted Brewster to fail.' But once I become 100% convinced he couldn't coach Big 10 Football, I wanted his era ended as quickly as possible. For me that was the SDSU game in 2009. That still didn't mean I was rooting for them to lose any given game, only that I saw a silver lining in the losses.

The difference is that no one can possibly have the same level of doubts about Tubby. Can we be frustrated with his current results? Yes. Can a rational person be convinced that Tubby Smith cannot coach at the BCS level of college basketball? No. That's absurd.

 

[millions2spare]

You love to confuse the issues. Being a Gopher fan and stating the reality of the state of the program in any negative light is not possible?

I call BS.

Monson was fired since he didnt get the necessary results, fill the barn, etc.

Tubby was hired, a big name coach, and has achieved mostly the same results.

Your post drips with excuses. Leave them behind chief.

Half a decade without an NCAA win. That is the only thing that matters.

+1

 

[goldengophers]

I never 'wanted Brewster to fail.' But once I become 100% convinced he couldn't coach Big 10 Football, I wanted his era ended as quickly as possible. For me that was the SDSU game in 2009. That still didn't mean I was rooting for them to lose any given game, only that I saw a silver lining in the losses.

The difference is that no one can possibly have the same level of doubts about Tubby. Can we be frustrated with his current results? Yes. Can a rational person be convinced that Tubby Smith cannot coach at the BCS level of college basketball? No. That's absurd.

What does this mean? Brewster was paid as a first time coach with no HC experience, Tubby was paid top 3-4 money in the Big Ten...If we signed up for the Tim Brewster of basketball (eg JB Bickerstaff)your oranges to oranges attempt would make sense.

 

[millions2spare]

I find it amazing that almost all the other coaches we have fired recently are successful (Molinari, Monson)... Also, Tubby was very successful ay kentucky and elsewhere. What is wrong with Gopher Athletics that prevents these successful coaches from winning here? hmmmm...none of the Gopher homers want to look at the facts and make necessary changes that allow us to win.

 

[goldengophers]

I find it amazing that almost all the other coaches we have fired recently are successful (Molinari, Monson)... Also, Tubby was very successful ay kentucky and elsewhere. What is wrong with Gopher Athletics that prevents these successful coaches from winning here? hmmmm...none of the Gopher homers want to look at the facts and make necessary changes that allow us to win.

You threw Molinari in there? Haha, one Dan Monson is not a large enough sample size pal.

 

[howeda7]

What does this mean? Brewster was paid as a first time coach with no HC experience, Tubby was paid top 3-4 money in the Big Ten...If we signed up for the Tim Brewster of basketball (eg JB Bickerstaff)your oranges to oranges attempt would make sense.

What does their salary have to do with anything? Our wins are not divided by the coach's salary. The point is that it was reasonable that people became utterly convinced that Brewster could not win here long before he was fired. It was painfully obvious. For anyone to sit here and say right now that they're convinced Tubby Smith cannot win at the B1G level is to ignore 15 + years of him doing exactly that.