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What in god's name would getting Muss do for us, he is struggling with NIL that is double what we have here. He just coached Arkansas to their first losing season since 09-10. Yes he has coached well in the past, but he benefited from some wealthy donors, something that we just don't have here.
 


LegalGopher said:
What in god's name would getting Muss do for us, he is struggling with NIL that is double what we have here. He just coached Arkansas to their first losing season since 09-10. Yes he has coached well in the past, but he benefited from some wealthy donors, something that we just don't have here.
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If anyone can sell tickets and raise NIL funds, it's him.
 


LegalGopher said:
What in god's name would getting Muss do for us, he is struggling with NIL that is double what we have here. He just coached Arkansas to their first losing season since 09-10. Yes he has coached well in the past, but he benefited from some wealthy donors, something that we just don't have here.
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and has more razorbacks in the portal than there are gophers (at this point)
 


LegalGopher said:
What in god's name would getting Muss do for us, he is struggling with NIL that is double what we have here. He just coached Arkansas to their first losing season since 09-10. Yes he has coached well in the past, but he benefited from some wealthy donors, something that we just don't have here.
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You need someone that hypes the program. People who invest in NIL are expecting to win.
 




I've been a big booster of the Musselman option in the past, but what we've seen this year from him looks from a distance like burnout and, at the very least, erratic behavior. That could be a false perception, but he's no longer the sure thing he was at one time.
 

I like the Muss Bus, but three years seems to be his Zenith, like Lou Holtz, he wears out his welcome wherever he goes, bare chests aside lol
 

"Hire the Magic Coach" - who can overcome all of the obstacles and make MN a top-level program.

should be easy.

I'm sure Mark Coyle is up to the challenge. and I'm sure the U of MN Administration and Regents will gladly cough up the money needed to hire the Magic Coach.

assuming the magic coach actually exists, and is not just some message board fantasy.

could a different coach do better? sure, that's possible. but is changing coaches a guarantee of success. Bleep No.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
"Hire the Magic Coach" - who can overcome all of the obstacles and make MN a top-level program.

should be easy.

I'm sure Mark Coyle is up to the challenge. and I'm sure the U of MN Administration and Regents will gladly cough up the money needed to hire the Magic Coach.

assuming the magic coach actually exists, and is not just some message board fantasy.

could a different coach do better? sure, that's possible. but is changing coaches a guarantee of success. Bleep No.
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There's no "Magic" Coach or "right" coach. But there are dozens of coaches who can do a better job than the one we have. If that's not true, then fold the program and be done with it.

The obstacles Minnesota faces are not greater than the ones faced by Colorado or South Carolina or NC State or Penn State or Northwestern and the "woe is us" attitude by so many here is over the up.
 



I mean if they couldn’t afford goddamn Pharrell Payne. How they gonna pay Musselmen plus his 9 transfers a year he goes for?
 


howeda7 said:
There's no "Magic" Coach or "right" coach. But there are dozens of coaches who can do a better job than the one we have. If that's not true, then fold the program and be done with it.

The obstacles Minnesota faces are not greater than the ones faced by Colorado or South Carolina or NC State or Penn State or Northwestern and the "woe is us" attitude by so many here is over the up.
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my point is that Gopher fans have been having this same argument for 25 years since Clem left.
Monson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.
Tubby's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Pitino's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Johnson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.

I am not defending Johnson. I am saying that the situation at MN goes beyond changing coaches.

there may be dozens of coaches who could do a better job. But those coaches have to be willing to come to MN, and MN has to be willing to pay the salary needed to entice a coach to take on this situation. and now with NIL and the Portal, the job has gotten harder.

maybe I'm wrong - but I don't think a name coach is taking this job - unless MN is willing to back up the Brink's truck and pay a king's ransom.

My bet is that the next coach is another younger guy willing to take on the challenge. because that is the type of coach MN is able to get.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
"Hire the Magic Coach" - who can overcome all of the obstacles and make MN a top-level program.

should be easy.

I'm sure Mark Coyle is up to the challenge. and I'm sure the U of MN Administration and Regents will gladly cough up the money needed to hire the Magic Coach.

assuming the magic coach actually exists, and is not just some message board fantasy.

could a different coach do better? sure, that's possible. but is changing coaches a guarantee of success. Bleep No.
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NIL is the starting point. Do you think Ben is going to get local big hitters more fired up to invest in NIL or Mussy? There is your answer.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
my point is that Gopher fans have been having this same argument for 25 years since Clem left.
Monson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.
Tubby's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Pitino's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Johnson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.

I am not defending Johnson. I am saying that the situation at MN goes beyond changing coaches.

there may be dozens of coaches who could do a better job. But those coaches have to be willing to come to MN, and MN has to be willing to pay the salary needed to entice a coach to take on this situation. and now with NIL and the Portal, the job has gotten harder.

maybe I'm wrong - but I don't think a name coach is taking this job - unless MN is willing to back up the Brink's truck and pay a king's ransom.

My bet is that the next coach is another younger guy willing to take on the challenge. because that is the type of coach MN is able to get.
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Monson was a good hire for the time. Ultimately it didn't work out.

Tubby was a HR hire for the time. And he had success. Circumstances prevented it from being fully realized and he got frustrated and sort of gave up. But it was still a decent era and the right hire at the time.

Pitino was a reach. The previous AD thought himself a basketball genius and got over his skis. But it still could have worked out with a bit better luck/fewer off court issues.

Ben was just a baffling indefensible hire from day 1. And nothing since has changed that. He's in way, way over his head and he needs to be replaced. I can't guarantee the next guy will bring us to glory, but he can probably return us to mediocrity and even that would be a major step up.

Can we get Musselman? Maybe not. Can we get one of Craig Smith, Meved etc.? Yes.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
my point is that Gopher fans have been having this same argument for 25 years since Clem left.
Monson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.
Tubby's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Pitino's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Johnson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.

I am not defending Johnson. I am saying that the situation at MN goes beyond changing coaches.

there may be dozens of coaches who could do a better job. But those coaches have to be willing to come to MN, and MN has to be willing to pay the salary needed to entice a coach to take on this situation. and now with NIL and the Portal, the job has gotten harder.

maybe I'm wrong - but I don't think a name coach is taking this job - unless MN is willing to back up the Brink's truck and pay a king's ransom.

My bet is that the next coach is another younger guy willing to take on the challenge. because that is the type of coach MN is able to get.
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Here is and has always been the real problem with MN basketball. They fired Clem. And let themselves get hammered into oblivion. Flat out that was the day it was over and has never recovered.
Had they stood behind him like Kansas, etc has done, he would have gone on to build(or continue) to be a consistent winner. Instead they showed everyone that this University does not care about sports or their coaches and it has been all downhill ever since.

They get LUCKY to land PJ Fleck.
 

bga1 said:
NIL is the starting point. Do you think Ben is going to get local big hitters more fired up to invest in NIL or Mussy? There is your answer.
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Muss may be able to generate more NIL. but NIL is only one piece of the puzzle.

No coach has won - or won consistently - since Clem left over 25 years ago.

I think the issues go beyond the coach. to have a winning program, all of the pieces have to line up - the AD, the Administration, the support staff, alumni base, boosters, etc.

a new coach with a different approach might help generate more donations - but I don't think the difference will be as dramatic as some people hope.

if the house has termites, a new coat of paint will not do the trick. and the Gopher program has termites.
 

Go Gophs said:
Here is and has always been the real problem with MN basketball. They fired Clem. And let themselves get hammered into oblivion. Flat out that was the day it was over and has never recovered.
Had they stood behind him like Kansas, etc has done, he would have gone on to build(or continue) to be a consistent winner. Instead they showed everyone that this University does not care about sports or their coaches and it has been all downhill ever since.

They get LUCKY to land PJ Fleck.
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There was never any way they were going to let Clem stay. Sure it seems sort of quaint now, but even Kansas would have fired the coach for doing what Clem did in 1999.

I would argue Maturi throwing Royce White and Mbakwe under the bus and letting Tubby's best team get torpedoed was almost as damaging. That could have been a Sweet 16 or better team and led to having a real shot with Tyus Jones and co. We'll never know.
 

howeda7 said:
There's no "Magic" Coach or "right" coach. But there are dozens of coaches who can do a better job than the one we have. If that's not true, then fold the program and be done with it.

The obstacles Minnesota faces are not greater than the ones faced by Colorado or South Carolina or NC State or Penn State or Northwestern and the "woe is us" attitude by so many here is over the up.
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Yeah, I can't imagine thinking that who you hire is immaterial.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
my point is that Gopher fans have been having this same argument for 25 years since Clem left.
Monson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.
Tubby's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Pitino's not getting the job done - time to change coaches
Johnson's not getting the job done - time to change coaches.

I am not defending Johnson. I am saying that the situation at MN goes beyond changing coaches.

there may be dozens of coaches who could do a better job. But those coaches have to be willing to come to MN, and MN has to be willing to pay the salary needed to entice a coach to take on this situation. and now with NIL and the Portal, the job has gotten harder.

maybe I'm wrong - but I don't think a name coach is taking this job - unless MN is willing to back up the Brink's truck and pay a king's ransom.

My bet is that the next coach is another younger guy willing to take on the challenge. because that is the type of coach MN is able to get.
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Well said
 

This has to be problematic for Coyle and I'm not sure Ben can survive it. He would need to hit home runs in the portal and not sure that will happen. Battle and your foundation recruiting class, all with local ties are all bolting.
 


Go Gophs said:
Here is and has always been the real problem with MN basketball. They fired Clem. And let themselves get hammered into oblivion. Flat out that was the day it was over and has never recovered.
Had they stood behind him like Kansas, etc has done, he would have gone on to build(or continue) to be a consistent winner. Instead they showed everyone that this University does not care about sports or their coaches and it has been all downhill ever since.

They get LUCKY to land PJ Fleck.
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If they had stood behind him they would have gotten way worse. Back then no one challenged that crap and it is revisionist history to pretend otherwise. The NCAA would have made an example out of us because they could.
 

WriterGoph said:
People are telling Payne's people that they can get him entry level NBA money ($1.1m). Let's see if that happens. But you can see how that would influence a 20-year-old
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If I'm him- go for the money. He has to. I hope he gives the U a chance to match. That's all I ask. If he does so and we can't find the backers then that tells me what I need to know about the future of this program.
 

howeda7 said:
There was never any way they were going to let Clem stay. Sure it seems sort of quaint now, but even Kansas would have fired the coach for doing what Clem did in 1999.

I would argue Maturi throwing Royce White and Mbakwe under the bus and letting Tubby's best team get torpedoed was almost as damaging. That could have been a Sweet 16 or better team and led to having a real shot with Tyus Jones and co. We'll never know.
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I will give you Trevor...but screw Royce White he got what he deserved.

And yeah Kansas would have done exactly what we did and the NCAA would have slapped their wrist for it. Then Cleveland State would have been given the death penalty.
 

bga1 said:
If I'm him- go for the money. He has to. I hope he gives the U a chance to match. That's all I ask. If he does so and we can't find the backers then that tells me what I need to know about the future of this program.
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This is new, but are there any examples of a top-end guy entering the portal and going back to his old team? I think it's already a done deal by the time they announce it.
 

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