gerry dinardo tweet on gophs recruiting

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Kill is the first real football coach (D1 level) since Holtz who didn't stay long enough (why would he?) to turn the program around. The recruiting site ratings are valid, but not perfect (duh!). Of course there are no guarantees, but they are pretty good indicators of potential. There are only a handful of coaches that can beat the odds with lesser talent. Kill is one of the few. He came to a program with a gargantuan hill to climb. He has a lifelong track record of a winner. It will take time, but we will compete and he will recruit higher level athletes as the program builds. A bowl win this year would be a huge shot in the arm and will speed his building of Gopher football.

DP has a trollish style, but he knows Gopher football and posts a lot of good information here. I read it and appreciate it.
 


At some point, we are going to need our "Ron Dayne:" a highly-regarded recruit that will elevate the program and put it on the radar for other highly-regarded kids. "The Little Engine That Could" mentality is going to play well for awhile and I like Kill and want him to succeed (and I believe he can), but we should aim on becoming more than a team with a collection of "lunch bucket" players that's going to hover around .500 for the next ten years. The rankings are what they are and it's difficult to project high school kids, but I've always believed it's more about the size of the dog in the fight than the size of the fight in the dog if you want to really climb the ladder (is that enough cliches for one post?).
 

diehard said:
Kill is the first real football coach (D1 level) since Holtz who didn't stay long enough (why would he?) to turn the program around. The recruiting site ratings are valid, but not perfect (duh!). Of course there are no guarantees, but they are pretty good indicators of potential. There are only a handful of coaches that can beat the odds with lesser talent. Kill is one of the few. He came to a program with a gargantuan hill to climb. He has a lifelong track record of a winner. It will take time, but we will compete and he will recruit higher level athletes as the program builds. A bowl win this year would be a huge shot in the arm and will speed his building of Gopher football.

DP has a trollish style, but he knows Gopher football and posts a lot of good information here. I read it and appreciate it.
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That is a pretty bold claim. Not trying to be argumentative but how do you know Kill can defy the odds and win with lower ranked talent? I don't think he had a talent disadvantage to overcome at NIU as their players and classes seem pretty much in line with what you would expect in the MAC. There were program issues when he got to Southern Illinois but I don't think he was dealing with a lower class of athlete after the first few years in comparison to his opposition. This will be one of his first stops where based on what we have seen in his recruiting he will be trying to win with talent that is ranked significantly lower than the schools he is going up against.
 


3399 said:
I am not sure if the guys you are listing strengthen your argument. Wells has played well at times and seems to be a good tackler. The rest of them are really not making that big of an impact, or are playing and might be part of the reason the team is 1-5 in the Big Ten. Time will tell.
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Disagree. These guys have all showed that they can play and compete in the B10 as freshmen or true sophs or 1st year JUCO guys. That is very hard to do, especially when you're not playing next to a ton of experience. Like I mentioned you certainly do need difference makers and some elite talent but to this point Kill has shown he can find guys that can at the very least compete in this conference. Plus most of the guys I mentioned are on D which has significantly improved and kept us in some games despite our offensive struggles
 

oleboy41 said:
Disagree. These guys have all showed that they can play and compete in the B10 as freshmen or true sophs or 1st year JUCO guys. That is very hard to do, especially when you're not playing next to a ton of experience. Like I mentioned you certainly do need difference makers and some elite talent but to this point Kill has shown he can find guys that can at the very least compete in this conference. Plus most of the guys I mentioned are on D which has significantly improved and kept us in some games despite our offensive struggles
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Only flaw there is that the guys on D that have truly had the biggest impact have all been Brewster guys with the exception of Wells. Wilhite and Hageman are getting the bulk of the sacks, Cater, Stoudermire and Vereen have been key in the secondary. The LB play has been poor but the top 3 tacklers at that position are Rallis, Hill, and Cooper. Credit should go to Claeys and there are Kill's guys contributing but the guys making the most plays (again with the exception of Wells who was great in the non-conf) are from Brewster.
 

STOP LOOKING AT THE RECRUITING RANKINGS! This is no way to measure the success of a recruiting class. I.e. look at Brewsters '08 and '09 classes when everyone said that they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, those classes are the reason we have no depth, very few seniors, and lacking playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. Wait four years, than we can compare recruiting classes between Brewster.

The defense has a few players that were recruited by Brew playing right now. However, our defensive line is a joke, Stoudermire is underperforming, Carter has really only played well in two games, while Vereen has been solid, the linebackers have been a major disappointment. While the Defense is improved it still is bottom half of the Big 10 not something you would have expected when these players came in 4/5 years ago.
 

gophergeek said:
STOP LOOKING AT THE RECRUITING RANKINGS! This is no way to measure the success of a recruiting class. I.e. look at Brewsters '08 and '09 classes when everyone said that they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, those classes are the reason we have no depth, very few seniors, and lacking playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. Wait four years, than we can compare recruiting classes between Brewster.

The defense has a few players that were recruited by Brew playing right now. However, our defensive line is a joke, Stoudermire is underperforming, Carter has really only played well in two games, while Vereen has been solid, the linebackers have been a major disappointment. While the Defense is improved it still is bottom half of the Big 10 not something you would have expected when these players came in 4/5 years ago.
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To be fair to brew, he took a calculated risk that failed in epic proportions. He had relatively highly touted kids committed that weren't locks to be admitted into the U. When a lot of those kids were denied I think many knew brew was in trouble. If his full classes were all still here maybe brew is too? Tough to say especially with all the coaching turnover. Also brew didn't hire himself, lay off the guy he worked his ass off trying to be successful. Blame the powers at be for making the cheap choice rather than the right choice

I also think you're being a little hard on the current squad, I haven't looked up the stats but I'm guessing we are closer to middle of the pack on defense compared to bottom feeder in the big ten
 



MNVCGUY said:
Only flaw there is that the guys on D that have truly had the biggest impact have all been Brewster guys with the exception of Wells. Wilhite and Hageman are getting the bulk of the sacks, Cater, Stoudermire and Vereen have been key in the secondary. The LB play has been poor but the top 3 tacklers at that position are Rallis, Hill, and Cooper. Credit should go to Claeys and there are Kill's guys contributing but the guys making the most plays (again with the exception of Wells who was great in the non-conf) are from Brewster.
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I thought Wells looked better again against MI. Maybe he is getting healthier.
 

gophergeek said:
The defense has a few players that were recruited by Brew playing right now. However, our defensive line is a joke,
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There are six players in the BT that have five or more sacks this year. Two of them come from the MN DL. They may not be great, but the DL certainly is not a joke.

Stoudermire is underperforming
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Probably, but were expectations too high for him? Hard to say.

Carter has really only played well in two games
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Disagree. He's been pretty good all year. Just because he doesn't have a lot of pass break ups or INT in a game, doesn't mean he didn't play well.

while Vereen has been solid, the linebackers have been a major disappointment.
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Agree with both points.
 

lakesgopher said:
To be fair to brew, he took a calculated risk that failed in epic proportions. He had relatively highly touted kids committed that weren't locks to be admitted into the U. When a lot of those kids were denied I think many knew brew was in trouble. If his full classes were all still here maybe brew is too? Tough to say especially with all the coaching turnover. Also brew didn't hire himself, lay off the guy he worked his ass off trying to be successful. Blame the powers at be for making the cheap choice rather than the right choice

I also think you're being a little hard on the current squad, I haven't looked up the stats but I'm guessing we are closer to middle of the pack on defense compared to bottom feeder in the big ten
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Maresh was the biggest disappointment as far as I'm concerned, especially since he wasn't considered a "risk" player at the time he was recruited.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Maresh was the biggest disappointment as far as I'm concerned, especially since he wasn't considered a "risk" player at the time he was recruited.
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Agreed I always wonder if he doesn't get the health problems, does he spiral into a trouble maker? Always the "what if" scenarios for gopher football fml
 



GophersInIowa said:
Probably, but were expectations too high for him?
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Expectations may have been too high, but even if they weren't, I think Troy is still underperforming. It seems that a large percentage of big plays against us involve either a blown coverage by him or a missed tackle by him (in fairness, by the time the big runs get to Stoudermire, the back is under a full head of steam and usually somone else has already missed a tackle). The two backbreakers last week were Michigan's first touchdown (where he totally seemed to give up on the play after we got the quarterback on the run and then we had to watch a 50ish yard TD pass on 3rd and 17, and the long pass to the 2 yard line that went right through his hands.
 


I believe we are ranked 8th in the B1G right now on defense (ahead of Nebraska). Definitely on the upswing.

And Michael Carter has had a really good season (just my opinion).
 

MNVCGUY said:
Only flaw there is that the guys on D that have truly had the biggest impact have all been Brewster guys with the exception of Wells. Wilhite and Hageman are getting the bulk of the sacks, Cater, Stoudermire and Vereen have been key in the secondary. The LB play has been poor but the top 3 tacklers at that position are Rallis, Hill, and Cooper. Credit should go to Claeys and there are Kill's guys contributing but the guys making the most plays (again with the exception of Wells who was great in the non-conf) are from Brewster.
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That's no shock as the Brew guys are the Jrs and Seniors. Its the 4th or 5th season in college for All the guys you mentioned. That's why being young is an issue. You're going to be bigger/faster/stronger/smarter with better technique as a senior than you will be as a freshman.
- Wells and Thompson are better than any of the DBs were as sophs (although Carter played well as a freshman)
- Ekpe is better than Hags was as a frosh (although I doubt he has the same ceiling)
- Johnson is already better than any other Brewster recruited DL other than Hageman
 

GophersInIowa said:
There are six players in the BT that have five or more sacks this year. Two of them come from the MN DL. They may not be great, but the DL certainly is not a joke.

Disagree. He's been pretty good all year. Just because he doesn't have a lot of pass break ups or INT in a game, doesn't mean he didn't play well.
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You got me on the Dline, I was a bit harsh. There has been a lot of improvement and I'm excited for their future. However, their play against the run is still very concerning. I know that some of that is schematic (were still lining up wide nine) and were not a gap control team. However, we still get pushed around by the bigger offensive lines. I do not blame the players or coaches for their play. We don't have the proper players who are old enough in place to be able to control the line of scrimmage. Which gets back to my original point about the lack of recruiting by Brewster. But I do believe that we have a couple of guys in our system currently, who with time, could get us to the upper half of the Big 10 in Rushing defense and sacks.
 

oleboy41 said:
That's no shock as the Brew guys are the Jrs and Seniors. Its the 4th or 5th season in college for All the guys you mentioned. That's why being young is an issue. You're going to be bigger/faster/stronger/smarter with better technique as a senior than you will be as a freshman.
- Wells and Thompson are better than any of the DBs were as sophs (although Carter played well as a freshman)
- Ekpe is better than Hags was as a frosh (although I doubt he has the same ceiling)
- Johnson is already better than any other Brewster recruited DL other than Hageman
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Tough to say how Thompson will develop but I wonder if we are seeing the best of Wells right now, not really sure how much more upside he has given his size. I think he could be a good player but I don't know that he will ever be a great player (nor should we expect him to become one).

My point was in regards to your comment about the defensive improvement being a sign that Kill's players are making an impact, my contention was the guys mostly responsible for the better play on D this season were brought in by Brewster for the most part and not Kill.

Tough to say what our defense will look like down the line. For as poor as the LB's have played it is a little scary that there don't seem to be any young guys nipping at their heals to take over.
 

littlebigboy said:
How high was Barker rated. Pretty good player.
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Nobody in their right mind would argue that some guys who are were lightly or not recruited will develop into good, sometimes great players. That is not and has not ever been the issue. You can name example after example. I think the point is you can't bring in recruiting classes full of these kind of guys. You are going to have more misses than hits. So far, Kill's recruiting has been guys who are, for the most part, lightly recruited by Big Ten standards. That is a fact.
 

gophergeek said:
You got me on the Dline, I was a bit harsh. There has been a lot of improvement and I'm excited for their future. However, their play against the run is still very concerning. I know that some of that is schematic (were still lining up wide nine) and were not a gap control team. However, we still get pushed around by the bigger offensive lines. I do not blame the players or coaches for their play. We don't have the proper players who are old enough in place to be able to control the line of scrimmage. Which gets back to my original point about the lack of recruiting by Brewster. But I do believe that we have a couple of guys in our system currently, who with time, could get us to the upper half of the Big 10 in Rushing defense and sacks.
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Fair enough. I do think our LB are more to blame on the bad run defense but the DL certainly is partly to blame.
 

When there are 11 guys on the defense and the runningback runs for 20+ yards, everyone is to blame.
 



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