Generational views... ?

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PEOPLE!!! I was frigging AT THE GAME. My father was the coach's boss, and I had a hotel room in the same hotel and the same floor as both my high school's team, who played Breuer's team in the Final, AND Randy Breuer's team. They were THE LAKERS back then. The Lake City Lakers.

The MSHSL website states that Randy Breuer played for THE LAKERS.


And again, I WAS THERE AT THE FRIGGIN GAME, first row seats. MY TEAM made its ONE AND ONLY trip to the State Finals that year, you might think I'd remember who we friggin played. We were the only team to have a lead on Breuer's Lakers at halftime, his entire Senior Season. But we did lose the game. They just started tossing the ball towards the basket and let Randy grad it and dunk it. He scored 41 pts that game. My HS team had 4 or 5 players that all went on to play college bb at various small colleges around Minnesota. Lake City had Randy, and that was basically it. Or so it seemed to me, a young kid at the time. But I remember that game better than I remember a whole lot of things that have happened to me since. Same as I very clearly remember the Gopher game down in New Orleans against GT. Big, UBER huge games like those, they stick with you.

I friggin remember the 1980 Miracle on Ice game pretty clearly as well. At least compared to everything else from that time.



I probably have the front page newspaper clipping with my little friggin noggin smack dab in the middle of the bottom of the pic, as I was in the FIRST ROW and they took a pic of about 12 rows of fans. So I had the closest thing to a close up. I rode down in an elevator with Randy Breuer and shook his hand when we got down to the lobby of the hotel, and he was literally 2 and a half feet taller than me at that time. Thankfully I grew a few inches after that, lol.


But I don't "think" that they were the Lakers, I KNOW that they were the Lakers.



And sending me to their school's website to see that they are NOW the Tigers, means diddly squat. So what?!

Did you go to the MSHSL site I put the link up to? Did you read the little bio for Breuer?! It said he played for the LAKERS.

Believe me, I know what I am talking about here, as much as I know what day of the week it is.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
seasons in the 70s, 80s and 90s? Competitive?

90s I might agree with you about, and its surprising how your team can compete when it is cheating.


70s and 80s? Well, pre-Clem, maybe competitive in the Big Ten, but not so much nationally. From 1960 to 1978, the Big Ten only averaged 1.6 teams that made both the AP and Coaches poll. If you add on years 1979 to 1985 and include any team that made either poll, the average is still only 2.00.

That's 52 Big Ten teams got ranked over a 26 year period. That's not what you'd consider a power conference.


Now in both 1986 and 1989 four Big Ten teams made it into the rankings, so that is when things started to change for the Big Ten.

But basically, PRE-Clem Gophers were only marginally competitive in a pretty weak ass Big Ten. And Clem's Gophers weren't much better until he started cheating.
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You're really twisting and turning to defend your position. The question is why people think we have been competitive in our history. Your answer is that the Big Ten was weak in the 60s, 70s and 80s. That may be true, but the average fan doesn't really compare and contrast that closely. Most simply remember us playing competitively with the teams we're supposed to be competitive with year in and year out.

Maybe the Big Ten WAS down in the 80s. And Minnesota had a few down years in the middle of that decade. But here's the kind of thing I remember:

79-80: Fourth place finish, beat all three teams ahead of us.
80-81: Fifth place finish, beat three of the four teams ahead of us.
81-82: Big Ten champion (ranked in the top 10).
82-83: Sixth place finish (.500), beat four of the five teams ahead of us.
88-89: Sweet 16 (fifth place in conference, beat every team ahead of us).
89-90: Elite 8

No cheating in the 80s. I call that competitive. Some very good years, some down years. And even back then I remember that we though some of these seasons were disappointments. But I would take these results in this decade, even in a down year for the Big Ten.

I could do the same thing for the 70s, too, but there were enough years with cheating involved that it would start a longer argument.
 

I just think you have to put things in a fair and proper perspective.

One quick example

2009 - only 2 BT teams were ranked, so I'm guessing the 3rd place Big Ten team didn't even end up in the rankings.

2010 - 4 BT teams were ranked, so I'm guessing the 4th place Big Ten team either ranked #16 or #13 in the country.


But with the simplistic view of a 3rd place finish is always better than a 4th place finish, well, its not accurate or in tune with reality.


Now an EXTREME example.

1967 compared to 2012.

1967 - ZERO BT teams ranked.
2012 - SIX BT teams ranked Top 16.


Now what coaching job was the more impressive one, getting a team into 3rd place in the BT in 1967, or getting a team into 6th place in 2012?!


Do you see what I'm getting at?!
 

No, I don't get what you are getting at. That has almost nothing to do with what most are speaking to regarding being competitive over time. Could probably find the opposite example of some year in the '70s or '80s compared to one of the weak Big Ten years in the mid 2000s. However, I have no interest in debating this with you further.
 

BarnBurner said:
I played in the old HVL.

It was Tigers. And Breuer was there at that time.

Unless I am really losing it......
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You are correct, BarnBurner. I lived in Lake City during Randy's entire HS career and followed their sports teams closely. Their nickname was indeed the "Tigers".
 


#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
PEOPLE!!! I was frigging AT THE GAME. My father was the coach's boss, and I had a hotel room in the same hotel and the same floor as both my high school's team, who played Breuer's team in the Final, AND Randy Breuer's team. They were THE LAKERS back then. The Lake City Lakers.

The MSHSL website states that Randy Breuer played for THE LAKERS.


And again, I WAS THERE AT THE FRIGGIN GAME, first row seats. MY TEAM made its ONE AND ONLY trip to the State Finals that year, you might think I'd remember who we friggin played. We were the only team to have a lead on Breuer's Lakers at halftime, his entire Senior Season. But we did lose the game. They just started tossing the ball towards the basket and let Randy grad it and dunk it. He scored 41 pts that game. My HS team had 4 or 5 players that all went on to play college bb at various small colleges around Minnesota. Lake City had Randy, and that was basically it. Or so it seemed to me, a young kid at the time. But I remember that game better than I remember a whole lot of things that have happened to me since. Same as I very clearly remember the Gopher game down in New Orleans against GT. Big, UBER huge games like those, they stick with you.

I friggin remember the 1980 Miracle on Ice game pretty clearly as well. At least compared to everything else from that time.



I probably have the front page newspaper clipping with my little friggin noggin smack dab in the middle of the bottom of the pic, as I was in the FIRST ROW and they took a pic of about 12 rows of fans. So I had the closest thing to a close up. I rode down in an elevator with Randy Breuer and shook his hand when we got down to the lobby of the hotel, and he was literally 2 and a half feet taller than me at that time. Thankfully I grew a few inches after that, lol.


But I don't "think" that they were the Lakers, I KNOW that they were the Lakers.



And sending me to their school's website to see that they are NOW the Tigers, means diddly squat. So what?!

Did you go to the MSHSL site I put the link up to? Did you read the little bio for Breuer?! It said he played for the LAKERS.

Believe me, I know what I am talking about here, as much as I know what day of the week it is.
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Based on this string of posts regarding the LAKE CITY TIGERS, you know absolutely, positively not a damn thing.

And that is being kind.
 






OK, MSHSL backs me up. My incredible memory backs me up. My hometown newspaper backs me up. And I just, go figure, found the guy who sat right next to me at that game on facebook just now. Hadn't talked to him in many years. So I ask him, I say,

"who did we play in the state Title game in 1979?"

This was his response,

"Lake City Lakers"


So now you are claiming that I am lying, my friend that was at the game with me is lying, and the MSHSL site is also got it wrong?! LOL
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
A complete ass?! So tell me, what you willing to do if you are proven to be wrong?
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1nHky, before you dig too deep a hole to dig out of and destroy your credibility on this board I suggest you contact "[email protected]" to find out the correct nickname of Lake City's BB team in 1979. You will find that the team was indeed the Tigers. The MSHSL website is simply incorrect in identifying Lake City as the "Lakers". FYI - I too was in attendance at the 1979 state title game between Lake City and Howard Lake - Waverly (sitting in the middle of the Lake City cheering section). Since I attended numerous LC games that season and the previous season, far more than your one or two day exposure to them, I think I am more than qualified to verify that their nickname was the Tigers.

Please take this commentary as a gentile nudge to get back on topic for this thread and continue your fine detailed analyses of past Gopher basketball seasons.
 

How do you explain TWO(actually 3) separate corroborating witnesses, having what you are, I guess, in a very kind way, suggesting is the same delusion?

How is it that my hometown newspaper got your teams moniker wrong? I just don't get it? Was this common knowledge? Was there a change in the name that occurred in the same time period that could have led to an entire town not even knowing who it was they were playing?

Dude, I am sorry, I can't imagine any reason you could have for lying to me, so there HAS to be some other reasonable explanation. I just can't imagine what that would be?


And saying that I am digging myself a hole too deep to get out of is ridiculous. Even IF you are telling me the truth, the FACT that the MSHSL website backs up my original contention and a memory that I have had for 33+ years and that my good friend who was at the game with me also has after 33+ years, and that my hometown newspaper printed as their front page story, is hardly a hole. Right now its your word vs the MSHSL's. And they may be wrong, and I guess that would mean that I and my friend is wrong, too, but I don't know who you are. I trust the MSHSL and my friend who I know over some one I've never met before. So sorry, your going to have to supply me with more than just your word.

And like I said, I'm not calling you a liar. Just any memory I've had for 33 years, will need something more than your word to change it. Understandable, right?!
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
How do you explain TWO(actually 3) separate corroborating witnesses, having what you are, I guess, in a very kind way, suggesting is the same delusion?

How is it that my hometown newspaper got your teams moniker wrong? I just don't get it? Was this common knowledge? Was there a change in the name that occurred in the same time period that could have led to an entire town not even knowing who it was they were playing?

Dude, I am sorry, I can't imagine any reason you could have for lying to me, so there HAS to be some other reasonable explanation. I just can't imagine what that would be?


And saying that I am digging myself a hole too deep to get out of is ridiculous. Even IF you are telling me the truth, the FACT that the MSHSL website backs up my original contention and a memory that I have had for 33+ years and that my good friend who was at the game with me also has after 33+ years, and that my hometown newspaper printed as their front page story, is hardly a hole. Right now its your word vs the MSHSL's. And they may be wrong, and I guess that would mean that I and my friend is wrong, too, but I don't know who you are. I trust the MSHSL and my friend who I know over some one I've never met before. So sorry, your going to have to supply me with more than just your word.

And like I said, I'm not calling you a liar. Just any memory I've had for 33 years, will need something more than your word to change it. Understandable, right?!
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I'll accept your apology once you get your reply back from "[email protected]".
 





Barnburner --

I am a religious scholar. I am quite confident that I could take one of your long held religious beliefs and prove it to be false. If I succeed in proving your belief to have been wrong, should you apologize to me?! lol

Serious. OF COURSE NOT. That's a ridiculous notion. And I've held this memory for THIRTY-THREE YEARS. And so has my good friend who sat next to me in the game. So its a little ridiculous that you would expect an apology from me. You said that I'm making an ass out of myself, when I supplied you with an authoritative source. Could be a mistaken source, but having a source that I'm sure is for the most part VERY reliable and authoritative is HARDLY making an ass out of myself.

But truth is truth, and if the evidence is presented and it can be proven to me that their name was the Tigers and not the Lakers, then of course I will admit it, lol. Why wouldn't I?


And it bears weight that there are 2 posters both disagreeing with me. That would be 2 corroborating witnesses. But I still have a more reliable one, but I am having my doubts. Websites make mistakes. It sounds more natural for LAKE city to be called the Lakers than the Tigers, so its possible who ever inputed the info at the MSHSL site made that assumption, or that they misread the source and saw that their opponent in the Title game was called the Lakers and took that name and gave it to Lake City.

But its also possible, though unlikely, that you are just pulling my leg.


But I've come to see the light after decades of believing something that was totally wrong before, so that could be the case now? And like I said, if proven wrong, I'll admit it.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Barnburner --

I am a religious scholar. I am quite confident that I could take one of your long held religious beliefs and prove it to be false. If I succeed in proving your belief to have been wrong, should you apologize to me?! lol

Serious. OF COURSE NOT. That's a ridiculous notion. And I've held this memory for THIRTY-THREE YEARS. And so has my good friend who sat next to me in the game. So its a little ridiculous that you would expect an apology from me. You said that I'm making an ass out of myself, when I supplied you with an authoritative source. Could be a mistaken source, but having a source that I'm sure is for the most part VERY reliable and authoritative is HARDLY making an ass out of myself.

But truth is truth, and if the evidence is presented and it can be proven to me that their name was the Tigers and not the Lakers, then of course I will admit it, lol. Why wouldn't I?


And it bears weight that there are 2 posters both disagreeing with me. That would be 2 corroborating witnesses. But I still have a more reliable one, but I am having my doubts. Websites make mistakes. It sounds more natural for LAKE city to be called the Lakers than the Tigers, so its possible who ever inputed the info at the MSHSL site made that assumption, or that they misread the source and saw that their opponent in the Title game was called the Lakers and took that name and gave it to Lake City.

But its also possible, though unlikely, that you are just pulling my leg.


But I've come to see the light after decades of believing something that was totally wrong before, so that could be the case now? And like I said, if proven wrong, I'll admit it.
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What"s the matter? Afraid to contact "[email protected]"? I've given you a chance to verify your bloviations. Why not do it and prove me wrong. The people of Lake City certainly can't know their local history better than you, your friends, the MSHSL and the Howard Lake/Waverly news media.
 

My takeaways from this thread:

1) The Gophers used to be pretty good in the 80s
2) #1Whatever once met Randy Breuer
 

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