Freiermuth: “I don’t think they have the caliber of tight end room”

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MplsGopher said:
I have no reason to trust your assessment.

Until a reasonable argument is given, I will maintain that my opinion/philosophy -- which is worthless -- is that Paulson should've been out on pass-catching routes more often and/or targeted more often.
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I'm not saying you are the only one by any means but I don't get the obsession over getting TEs involved. We had 2 WRs that were great route runners and we utilized a lot of routes over the middle that would set up some of the deep throws. This is our offense and it is the best we have had in quite some time.

I understand everyone wants every position to be able to make big plays but I also think that people fail to realize we don't run an offense like we used to. College football is won on the big plays and I don't think there is many TEs in all of college football that are home run threats. We get our big plays from our WRs and RBs, they are more talented, why change?
 

Watch Gophers TEs go 10-180 3tds in bowl game. Take note Simon shut this punk up!!
 

MplsGopher said:
I have no reason to trust your assessment.

Until a reasonable argument is given, I will maintain that my opinion/philosophy -- which is worthless -- is that Paulson should've been out on pass-catching routes more often and/or targeted more often.
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You don't trust my assessment that Paulson isn't as good of a pass catcher as Freiermuth?!?!?

Honestly, do you watch college football? Did you even watch the Penn State/Gopher game?

I like Paulson a lot and he is strong blocker, but Freiermuth was one of the best passing catching TEs in the entire country.

Your welcome to think my opinion is worthless, but this one isn't controversial.
 




Freiermuth: 41 catches, 468 yds, 7 TDs

That’s decent, but I thought his numbers were higher. 39 yards per game.

I think their biggest weakness in the passing game is their QB. He’s athletic enough to extend plays, but he’s not very accurate on intermediate to deep throws.
 

Any word on local media coverage?

Does the long arm of Barry Alvarez reach as far as Florida?
 

MinnGopher said:
I'm not saying you are the only one by any means but I don't get the obsession over getting TEs involved. We had 2 WRs that were great route runners and we utilized a lot of routes over the middle that would set up some of the deep throws. This is our offense and it is the best we have had in quite some time.

I understand everyone wants every position to be able to make big plays but I also think that people fail to realize we don't run an offense like we used to. College football is won on the big plays and I don't think there is many TEs in all of college football that are home run threats. We get our big plays from our WRs and RBs, they are more talented, why change?
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Gopherhole was once obsessed with the jet sweep. At least in those days it was an obsession that grew out of having a bad offense. Now, we have one of the most efficient passing games in the country and I've seen fewer posts about Paulson's lack of catches than I have about both of our All Big 10 WRs. This is a weird place.
 

MinnGopher said:
I'm not saying you are the only one by any means but I don't get the obsession over getting TEs involved. We had 2 WRs that were great route runners and we utilized a lot of routes over the middle that would set up some of the deep throws. This is our offense and it is the best we have had in quite some time.

I understand everyone wants every position to be able to make big plays but I also think that people fail to realize we don't run an offense like we used to. College football is won on the big plays and I don't think there is many TEs in all of college football that are home run threats. We get our big plays from our WRs and RBs, they are more talented, why change?
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Vikings fans are the same way.

Everyone wants to throw to the big guy.

But yeah it isn't a thing you just choose to do at will and are successful with it.
 



MinnGopher said:
I'm not saying you are the only one by any means but I don't get the obsession over getting TEs involved. We had 2 WRs that were great route runners and we utilized a lot of routes over the middle that would set up some of the deep throws. This is our offense and it is the best we have had in quite some time.

I understand everyone wants every position to be able to make big plays but I also think that people fail to realize we don't run an offense like we used to. College football is won on the big plays and I don't think there is many TEs in all of college football that are home run threats. We get our big plays from our WRs and RBs, they are more talented, why change?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the post. To some degree, I absolutely agree with you, and think you are correct.

But follow me for a second. If you take the logic that you employed here, and run it all the way out to its extreme (absurd) limit, it would look like this:

"We only need to send 1 WR out on a pass-catching route, our best guy. Let's extra-max protect with the remaining 9 guys, to give the QB the most time possible to throw our best WR the ball."

Of course that's absurd. I'm guessing you'd agree. But do you see the point I'm getting at?

The TE position gives maximum flexibility, and maximum concern for the opposing defense ... but only if they actually have to cover the guy on passing plays. Will he run block? Will he go out on a route and catch the ball? What should we do??
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't trust my assessment that Paulson isn't as good of a pass catcher as Freiermuth?!?!?
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In post #50 it was "He is still nowhere near the pass catcher that Freiermuth is."

Nowhere near ... well let's dial that back to "isn't as good as".


I agree with "isn't as good as". I don't agree with "nowhere near".
 

Ed
MplsGopher said:
Thanks for the post. To some degree, I absolutely agree with you, and think you are correct.

But follow me for a second. If you take the logic that you employed here, and run it all the way out to its extreme (absurd) limit, it would look like this:

"We only need to send 1 WR out on a pass-catching route, our best guy. Let's extra-max protect with the remaining 9 guys, to give the QB the most time possible to throw our best WR the ball."

Of course that's absurd. I'm guessing you'd agree. But do you see the point I'm getting at?

The TE position gives maximum flexibility, and maximum concern for the opposing defense ... but only if they actually have to cover the guy on passing plays. Will he run block? Will he go out on a route and catch the ball? What should we do??
Click to expand...

It’s absurd, but they came close to that on this play. 2 receivers against 6 defenders, and it somehow worked! Absurd! How many times out of ten do you suppose they could pull this off?

 

MplsGopher said:
In post #50 it was "He is still nowhere near the pass catcher that Freiermuth is."

Nowhere near ... well let's dial that back to "isn't as good as".


I agree with "isn't as good as". I don't agree with "nowhere near".
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As Bob noted earlier, are you even watching the games? Paulson is a solid college player who was just a sophomore this year. He’ll improve as an upperclassman. Friermuth is one of the top TEs in college football and good enough that he could have declared for the NFL draft. Friermuth is a lot better.
 



MplsGopher said:
I have no reason to trust your assessment.

Until a reasonable argument is given, I will maintain that my opinion/philosophy -- which is worthless -- is that Paulson should've been out on pass-catching routes more often and/or targeted more often.
Click to expand...
But again, when we have targeted Paulsen the past few years, he didn't strike me as a very fluid pass catcher, more of a lumbering guy that has to concentrate hard on catching the ball and then transitions to a runner in two separate motions, not one fluid movement.

And of course we also have the Nebraska drop.
 

I just watched every Paulson highlight I could find, both college and high school. I’m not saying he’s in Freiermuth’s class, but he looks fine to me. We don’t have much to go by, but when they have thrown to him (or the other TEs), he’s been wide f*cking open. He had the one drop. How many has Tyler had? Should they stop throwing to him too? What we do know is that Kirk’s offense hasn’t involved the TE as a pass catcher for the last 7 seasons. I think it has more to do with his scheme than it does the abilities of his TEs over the years. They are needed to pass block for the longer developing plays. He may even have an open mind about it, but when push comes to shove, they add more value as a pass blocker in his offense than a potential target.

EDIT: They don’t get much more wide open than this.

www.espn.com.au

Minnesota TE wide open for short TD - ESPN Video

Golden Gophers TE Jake Paulson finds himself wide open for a 11-yard TD, giving Minnesota the lead 10-3.
www.espn.com.au www.espn.com.au
 
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Yeah, this is one of the stranger debates in the Hole and elsewhere. That was KC’s philosophy. The new guy will undoubtedly have anywhere from a slightly to a moderately different philosophy or opinion on personnel and play calling and throw his own wrinkles into the offense and then people will think that’s the best.
 

MplsGopher said:
Thanks for the post. To some degree, I absolutely agree with you, and think you are correct.

But follow me for a second. If you take the logic that you employed here, and run it all the way out to its extreme (absurd) limit, it would look like this:

"We only need to send 1 WR out on a pass-catching route, our best guy. Let's extra-max protect with the remaining 9 guys, to give the QB the most time possible to throw our best WR the ball."

Of course that's absurd. I'm guessing you'd agree. But do you see the point I'm getting at?

The TE position gives maximum flexibility, and maximum concern for the opposing defense ... but only if they actually have to cover the guy on passing plays. Will he run block? Will he go out on a route and catch the ball? What should we do??
Click to expand...
Good grief.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Gopherhole was once obsessed with the jet sweep. At least in those days it was an obsession that grew out of having a bad offense. Now, we have one of the most efficient passing games in the country and I've seen fewer posts about Paulson's lack of catches than I have about both of our All Big 10 WRs. This is a weird place.
Click to expand...

There has been mention of using the TE more on threads throughout the season. Not saying it was every single week, but I thought it was fairly consistent.
 

MplsGopher said:
Thanks for the post. To some degree, I absolutely agree with you, and think you are correct.

But follow me for a second. If you take the logic that you employed here, and run it all the way out to its extreme (absurd) limit, it would look like this:

"We only need to send 1 WR out on a pass-catching route, our best guy. Let's extra-max protect with the remaining 9 guys, to give the QB the most time possible to throw our best WR the ball."

Of course that's absurd. I'm guessing you'd agree. But do you see the point I'm getting at?

The TE position gives maximum flexibility, and maximum concern for the opposing defense ... but only if they actually have to cover the guy on passing plays. Will he run block? Will he go out on a route and catch the ball? What should we do??
Click to expand...

I seewhat you are saying but still disagree. We set up some of our big plays by consistently completing passes and slants across the middle. I would not ignore that considering how explosive our pass game was.

Also imo, it does not matter if it’s a WR split out wide in the slot, opening up the box, or a TE. Whatever our offensive design, we need to execute, and I don’t think a TE is a big part of our offensive design.
 

PitinoFan said:
It’s absurd, but they came close to that on this play. 2 receivers against 6 defenders, and it somehow worked! Absurd! How many times out of ten do you suppose they could pull this off?

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Thanks for posting this. It is absurd, I agree.

Our formation was: 2 WR, 2 TE (although it looked like one was actually a 6OL), and the RB+QB in shotgun, on 2nd and 9. So that was EIGHT guys pass-blocking, against what ended up being 5 rushers for Penn State. 4 DL and one LB rushed.

7 man box, so the other two LB feebly dropped back into the same short zone, with nothing there to defend. Standard 4 DB shell in back.

The safety on TJ's side cheats up to prevent the slant, and instead we go deep. It wasn't a Slant-and-Go route, either. Just burned them too many times, I guess. If the safety had stayed over the top, they likely win the play.

They should've see how comical our "TE" were ... quite obviously just two extra pass blockers ... and sent the OLB to drop deep to block the slant routes, allowing the safeties to stay over the top.

Wonder if that type of adjustment is what Iowa and/or Wisconsin did?
 

MinnGopher said:
I seewhat you are saying but still disagree. We set up some of our big plays by consistently completing passes and slants across the middle. I would not ignore that considering how explosive our pass game was.

Also imo, it does not matter if it’s a WR split out wide in the slot, opening up the box, or a TE. Whatever our offensive design, we need to execute, and I don’t think a TE is a big part of our offensive design.
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I mean no offense to you sir, but I think you completely missed my point.

I have no qualms about the routes that our receivers ran this year, or the design of the route-combinations by our offensive staff. All that stuff was obviously done pretty well.

The point I was making was: 1) the number of pass-catchers going out on routes for a given pass play, and 2) stressing the defense with flexibility (ie, is a TE staying in the block on a run, or going out for a pass?).
 

Wonder if PSU is saving him for the second half of the Cotton bowl...?
 




PitinoFan said:
He has one catch for 19 yards in the 1st half. That’s right on track for his season average for yardage.
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Got off the schneid. His best plays were blocks on runs tho.
 

MplsGopher said:
I mean no offense to you sir, but I think you completely missed my point.

I have no qualms about the routes that our receivers ran this year, or the design of the route-combinations by our offensive staff. All that stuff was obviously done pretty well.

The point I was making was: 1) the number of pass-catchers going out on routes for a given pass play, and 2) stressing the defense with flexibility (ie, is a TE staying in the block on a run, or going out for a pass?).
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Yeah my counter was it doesn’t matter if your advantage is Using WRs or using a TE. All receivers can block or catch a pass on any play, so I’m not sure I follow the logic where a TE is really that much of an asset, especially when we don’t have proven pass catchers at TE.
I’m just saying that we don’t have a ton of plays that are set up for TEs, we don’t have the talent, or that that something has not clicked for us/been an advantage to use the TE.

I’m not sure why when we have had the best offense we have had in years we are saying well hey I like this wrinkle, we should add it. It’s not part of our O, why are we even commenting? It would be nice if every skill position had guys that put up all B1G stats but I don’t really get the fantasy, our O works well now.
 



MinnGopher said:
There has been mention of using the TE more on threads throughout the season. Not saying it was every single week, but I thought it was fairly consistent.
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Oh yeah. I noticed those comments during the year that we had our best offense in my lifetime. We were incredibly inefficient and averaged more than 10 yards an attempt and some people were obsessed with the TE. It was weird then and it's weird now.
 

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