GopherOhana
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betts is young too. iirc, enrolled at 17, now 19 and will be 20 this coming november
Frank Mitchell commits
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fan of Ray Williams
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Don't think Mitchell has played much prior to last season. Think he only played about 8 games at Humber College.Then sat out a year at Canisius and finally played the 31 games this past season.
GopherOhana
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light schedule in canada. 2021 season Humber went 9-0 conf then 7-0 post season. i think frank played and started in all those games. humber didn't have a season the year prior (covid?) so to your point, not a lot of games under his belt
admittedly, canadian team schedules are tough to odd i looks like humber went 8-5 non-conf, but the box scores i could read didn't list frank
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fan of Ray Williams
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I am thinking he did not if he was Rookie of the Year in 2022
Regardless, as you say, not many games under his belt.
EasyThere Pilgrim
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Guys saying we need 3 or 4 more players make it sound like we're nowhere near being good.
When in reality, we'll be good if Christie returns. And very good if Frank Mitchell is a pleasant surprise.
We will be middle of the conference if Christie returns and Mitchell is a pleasant surprise. We will be very good if we can get a defensive center and another guard that can score and defend.
fan of Ray Williams
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He’s gotten 2 good ones the last couple years. Have to think at least one more good one will join up. Sure hope so.
EasyThere Pilgrim
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1 more good player would be great.
But if Christie returns and Mitchell is better than advertised (and can defend inside)...we should be a Top-25 team.
Zeppelin Gopher
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I thought the exact opposite. Was pretty surprised at how big and developed Betts is
TwistingMyMelon
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I guess because I didn't see much of him (on the court anyway) I don't have particular hopes about him.
Ragnor
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I personally think we will be better with Mitchell than Payne.
Payne:
Season Averages
Mitchell:
Season Averages
Here is who leads in the following categories
Experience: By all accounts I have heard Payne has played longer which would favor Mitchell as having more upside
Minutes: Mitchell +6 minutes which might favor Payne in some game statistics since he got those statistics in fewer minutes
FG%: Payne is more efficient at 63.8% but do not know how many of the buckets Mitchell has are dunks compared to Payne. Mitchell appears to be a better shooter looking at his 3-9 from 3point range. and no attempts from Payne indicates he has a red light and Mitchell probably has a yellow light from the arc.
Free Throws: both are abysmal and free throw shooting is mostly psychological so either could turn the corner is they figure out a way to get a good mindset at the line.
Rebounding: Mitchell dominates Payne averaging 11.6 vs 6.1 per game. Weaker schedule doesn't account for the difference Mitchell averaged 9 rebounds against the 2 major conference teams (Pitt and Syracuse) he played. Payne's best performance against 11 low and mid major teams were 8 vs. Maine and IUPUI. Mitchell had 8 games with 15+ rebounds including 22 and 21 rebound games.
Looking at assists, blocks, steals and turnovers they are very similar with marginal difference.
Conclusion: Frank Mitchell's massive rebounding margin, likely greater upside and the fact he clearly is bought in the be on the team makes him by far the better player for the gophers and makes the gophers better than Payne.
Payne:
Stats
Season Averages
| GP | GS | MIN | FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 30 | 4 | 22.0 | 3.2-4.7 | 69.3 | 0.0-0.0 | 0.0 | 1.8-3.6 | 48.6 | 1.6 | 3.6 | 5.2 | 1.3 | 1.1 | 0.5 | 2.6 | 2.1 | 8.2 |
| 32 | 19 | 23.3 | 4.1-6.8 | 60.2 | 0.0-0.0 | 0.0 | 1.9-4.0 | 47.2 | 2.4 | 3.7 | 6.1 | 1.2 | 1.4 | 0.3 | 2.2 | 1.6 | 10.0 |
| 62 | 23 | 22.7 | 3.7-5.7 | 63.8 | 0.0-0.0 | 0.0 | 1.8-3.8 | 47.9 | 2.0 | 3.6 | 5.6 | 1.2 | 1.2 | 0.4 | 2.4 | 1.8 | 9.1 |
Mitchell:
Stats
Season Averages
| season | Team |
|---|---|
| 2023-24 | 
|
| Career |
| GP | GS | MIN | FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 31 | 31 | 28.9 | 5.2-9.3 | 56.1 | 0.1-0.3 | 33.3 | 1.6-3.7 | 43.0 | 4.1 | 7.5 | 11.6 | 1.5 | 0.9 | 0.7 | 2.8 | 2.0 | 12.1 |
| 31 | 31 | 28.9 | 5.2-9.3 | 56.1 | 0.1-0.3 | 33.3 | 1.6-3.7 | 43.0 | 4.1 | 7.5 | 11.6 | 1.5 | 0.9 | 0.7 | 2.8 | 2.0 | 12.1 |
Here is who leads in the following categories
Experience: By all accounts I have heard Payne has played longer which would favor Mitchell as having more upside
Minutes: Mitchell +6 minutes which might favor Payne in some game statistics since he got those statistics in fewer minutes
FG%: Payne is more efficient at 63.8% but do not know how many of the buckets Mitchell has are dunks compared to Payne. Mitchell appears to be a better shooter looking at his 3-9 from 3point range. and no attempts from Payne indicates he has a red light and Mitchell probably has a yellow light from the arc.
Free Throws: both are abysmal and free throw shooting is mostly psychological so either could turn the corner is they figure out a way to get a good mindset at the line.
Rebounding: Mitchell dominates Payne averaging 11.6 vs 6.1 per game. Weaker schedule doesn't account for the difference Mitchell averaged 9 rebounds against the 2 major conference teams (Pitt and Syracuse) he played. Payne's best performance against 11 low and mid major teams were 8 vs. Maine and IUPUI. Mitchell had 8 games with 15+ rebounds including 22 and 21 rebound games.
Looking at assists, blocks, steals and turnovers they are very similar with marginal difference.
Conclusion: Frank Mitchell's massive rebounding margin, likely greater upside and the fact he clearly is bought in the be on the team makes him by far the better player for the gophers and makes the gophers better than Payne.
TwistingMyMelon
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If you didn't notice that this team ran out of gas in the latter part of the season, I don't know what to say. Some of these players simply played too many minutes for too long and it caught up with them. We need to have at least three nonstarters who can be trusted to play significant minutes if needed. Four would be better. Also, this team had pretty good luck avoiding longer term injuries last season. There's no guarantee that will continue.
TwistingMyMelon
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I personally think we will be better with Mitchell than Payne.
Payne:
Stats
Season Averages
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 30 4 22.0 3.2-4.7 69.3 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.6 48.6 1.6 3.6 5.2 1.3 1.1 0.5 2.6 2.1 8.2 32 19 23.3 4.1-6.8 60.2 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.9-4.0 47.2 2.4 3.7 6.1 1.2 1.4 0.3 2.2 1.6 10.0 62 23 22.7 3.7-5.7 63.8 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.8 47.9 2.0 3.6 5.6 1.2 1.2 0.4 2.4 1.8 9.1
Mitchell:
Stats
Season Averages
season Team 2023-24 Career
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1
Experience: By all accounts I have heard Payne has played longer which would favor Mitchell as having more upside
Oh, c'mon, it's not like Mitchell is 20 years old while Payne is 35. We really don't know much about Mitchell other than he has been a rebounding machine in his very brief career. Payne has been very good at what he does but he has limitations. Mitchell could also reveal that he has limitations.
fan of Ray Williams
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Injury and illness. Have to be prepared in the event it rears its ugly head.
Bob_Loblaw
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Mitchell put up slightly better numbers than Payne playing against Canisius's opponents.I personally think we will be better with Mitchell than Payne.
Payne:
Stats
Season Averages
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 30 4 22.0 3.2-4.7 69.3 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.6 48.6 1.6 3.6 5.2 1.3 1.1 0.5 2.6 2.1 8.2 32 19 23.3 4.1-6.8 60.2 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.9-4.0 47.2 2.4 3.7 6.1 1.2 1.4 0.3 2.2 1.6 10.0 62 23 22.7 3.7-5.7 63.8 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.8 47.9 2.0 3.6 5.6 1.2 1.2 0.4 2.4 1.8 9.1
Mitchell:
Stats
Season Averages
season Team 2023-24 Career
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1
Here is who leads in the following categories
Experience: By all accounts I have heard Payne has played longer which would favor Mitchell as having more upside
Minutes: Mitchell +6 minutes which might favor Payne in some game statistics since he got those statistics in fewer minutes
FG%: Payne is more efficient at 63.8% but do not know how many of the buckets Mitchell has are dunks compared to Payne. Mitchell appears to be a better shooter looking at his 3-9 from 3point range. and no attempts from Payne indicates he has a red light and Mitchell probably has a yellow light from the arc.
Free Throws: both are abysmal and free throw shooting is mostly psychological so either could turn the corner is they figure out a way to get a good mindset at the line.
Rebounding: Mitchell dominates Payne averaging 11.6 vs 6.1 per game. Weaker schedule doesn't account for the difference Mitchell averaged 9 rebounds against the 2 major conference teams (Pitt and Syracuse) he played. Payne's best performance against 11 low and mid major teams were 8 vs. Maine and IUPUI. Mitchell had 8 games with 15+ rebounds including 22 and 21 rebound games.
Looking at assists, blocks, steals and turnovers they are very similar with marginal difference.
Conclusion: Frank Mitchell's massive rebounding margin, likely greater upside and the fact he clearly is bought in the be on the team makes him by far the better player for the gophers and makes the gophers better than Payne.
I hope he's better than Payne but the fact that it's a reasonable debate (in either direction) is a good sign. Payne is a difficult guy to replace and I think he'll actually have a huge year next season, but Mitchell is a good ball player.
Ragnor
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I agree
EasyThere Pilgrim
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I agree that we need some more depth. But if Christie returns, we have a good starting lineup.
fan of Ray Williams
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You keep saying that and yet it is complete BS. If that were the case no coach on a team with a lot of NIL would ever be fired...
I know it is hard to believe but it is just as likely that Ben Johnson is not a good coach as is that he is a good coach. You can make all of the excuses you want for him it doesn't change that. We will find out which it is over time.
It is cute though how you have changed your narrative on this though since your last theory went sideways just like we all told you it would.
On topic though, this was a solid pickup. Hopefully more is to come.
In judging a coach "good", in which order to you rate his responsibilities? Between: In-game coaching; game preparation; relationship with players and ability to foster relations within team; high school recruiting; portal acquisition?
What makes a good coach and on which of the levels does Johnson fail?
I agree, that is on the coach though, recruiting to a certain extent. Study endurance activity, you've got about a 15 week cycle where you can go all out before the body breaks down and needs rest. You can either lower activity levels or take a break.
EasyThere Pilgrim
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My theory never went sideways.
If we can't build a team and keep it together...we will fail. But it's still the only chance to win at Minnesota.
Changing coaches won't make any difference.
Otis
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Mitchell looks more complementary than Payne. His rebounding is markedly better, might have better box out skills and ethic.I personally think we will be better with Mitchell than Payne.
Payne:
Stats
Season Averages
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 30 4 22.0 3.2-4.7 69.3 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.6 48.6 1.6 3.6 5.2 1.3 1.1 0.5 2.6 2.1 8.2 32 19 23.3 4.1-6.8 60.2 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.9-4.0 47.2 2.4 3.7 6.1 1.2 1.4 0.3 2.2 1.6 10.0 62 23 22.7 3.7-5.7 63.8 0.0-0.0 0.0 1.8-3.8 47.9 2.0 3.6 5.6 1.2 1.2 0.4 2.4 1.8 9.1
Mitchell:
Stats
Season Averages
season Team 2023-24 Career
GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1 31 31 28.9 5.2-9.3 56.1 0.1-0.3 33.3 1.6-3.7 43.0 4.1 7.5 11.6 1.5 0.9 0.7 2.8 2.0 12.1
Here is who leads in the following categories
Experience: By all accounts I have heard Payne has played longer which would favor Mitchell as having more upside
Minutes: Mitchell +6 minutes which might favor Payne in some game statistics since he got those statistics in fewer minutes
FG%: Payne is more efficient at 63.8% but do not know how many of the buckets Mitchell has are dunks compared to Payne. Mitchell appears to be a better shooter looking at his 3-9 from 3point range. and no attempts from Payne indicates he has a red light and Mitchell probably has a yellow light from the arc.
Free Throws: both are abysmal and free throw shooting is mostly psychological so either could turn the corner is they figure out a way to get a good mindset at the line.
Rebounding: Mitchell dominates Payne averaging 11.6 vs 6.1 per game. Weaker schedule doesn't account for the difference Mitchell averaged 9 rebounds against the 2 major conference teams (Pitt and Syracuse) he played. Payne's best performance against 11 low and mid major teams were 8 vs. Maine and IUPUI. Mitchell had 8 games with 15+ rebounds including 22 and 21 rebound games.
Looking at assists, blocks, steals and turnovers they are very similar with marginal difference.
Conclusion: Frank Mitchell's massive rebounding margin, likely greater upside and the fact he clearly is bought in the be on the team makes him by far the better player for the gophers and makes the gophers better than Payne.
Has only played ball for four years!
This means he probably has a more non-linear chance of improving his skills.
Also probably has less bad habits.
Wet_Blanket_Guy
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Didn’t know he was the 245th ranked transfer prospect - and most likely to fall with more coming in 