Fleck set the tone of the game with our first score

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FlaGopher23

FlaGopher23

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After Iowa’s first score with a field goal, we drive down to their 2 yard line and go for 3??? That conservatism set the tone for the game and it’s on Fleck. These kids want to win. They want to see their coach be somewhat aggressive and believe in them. That would get the players going.

We should have gone for the touchdown on that first drive. I don’t think Fleck understands probabilities. What is the worst that happens, we don’t get it, Iowa is pinned deep and they are up 3 points??? Being pinned deep could be a bit defeating itself. We stop Iowa on their second drive when they are pinned deep and now we have a different tone to the game.
Just my opinion.
 

FlaGopher23 said:
After Iowa’s first score with a field goal, we drive down to their 2 yard line and go for 3??? That conservatism set the tone for the game and it’s on Fleck. These kids want to win. They want to see their coach be somewhat aggressive and believe in them. That would get the players going.

We should have gone for the touchdown on that first drive. I don’t think Fleck understands probabilities. What is the worst that happens, we don’t get it, Iowa is pinned deep and they are up 3 points??? Being pinned deep could be a bit defeating itself. We stop Iowa on their second drive when they are pinned deep and now we have a different tone to the game.
Just my opinion.
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He doesn’t have a good feel for time and place IMO.

U go for it here and not when you’re down 14-3 and not kick a FG as that puts u a TD/2 pointer behind a team that your D is now handeling when it’s 4 and 6 from the 25😜
 
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There's been considerable discussion about 2019 on this forum.

The apologists said it was the high water mark and something to build on after the Covid season. It wasn't a fluke.

In reality, PJ Fleck proved it was a fluke.

And this week, Coyle put this football program "behind the 8 ball" for the foreseeable future with a truly ridiculous contract extension.

After sleeping on it, the only positive is that at least we aren't Nebraska.
 


CentralGopher said:
Guaranteed the same posters bitching about being too conservative would be bitching if they took a risk that burned them.
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His decision making is just all over the place. He’ll go for it on 4th down deep in our own territory but won’t when at the goal line. He’s definitely a man of extremes. Extremely aggressive at times and extremely conservative at other times. He just doesn’t seem to understand the flow of the game sometimes.
 


Boomtime said:
There's been considerable discussion about 2019 on this forum.

The apologists said it was the high water mark and something to build on after the Covid season. It wasn't a fluke.

In reality, PJ Fleck proved it was a fluke.

And this week, Coyle put this football program "behind the 8 ball" for the foreseeable future with a truly ridiculous contract extension.

After sleeping on it, the only positive is that at least we aren't Nebraska.
Click to expand...
How has he proven it was a fluke?
 

Boomtime said:
There's been considerable discussion about 2019 on this forum.

The apologists said it was the high water mark and something to build on after the Covid season. It wasn't a fluke.

In reality, PJ Fleck proved it was a fluke.

And this week, Coyle put this football program "behind the 8 ball" for the foreseeable future with a truly ridiculous contract extension.

After sleeping on it, the only positive is that at least we aren't Nebraska.
Click to expand...
By definition, the best season in modern history is going to be better than the other seasons
 

Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
 

Face The Facts said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
Click to expand...
Fleck must also recognize the regression to the Mason-Kill line and fix the obvious flaws, he should know what works schematically at this point, his sample size as B1G coach is now quite extensive and he has a dearth of data points to draw from and inform decision making.
 



Face The Facts said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
Click to expand...
Mediocrity, the Minnesota way. If you settle for mediocrity, no one can help you too.
 

GophersInIowa said:
His decision making is just all over the place. He’ll go for it on 4th down deep in our own territory but won’t when at the goal line. He’s definitely a man of extremes. Extremely aggressive at times and extremely conservative at other times. He just doesn’t seem to understand the flow of the game sometimes.
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This is exactly my thought also. 7pts there and we control the game. Even if you dont make it, trust you defense to hold them and get the ball back at the 50 on next possession. Missed opportunities
 

CentralGopher said:
Guaranteed the same posters bitching about being too conservative would be bitching if they took a risk that burned them.
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I agree. People who dislike Fleck look for any excuse to raost him. People who like him probably search a little too hard for reasons he's not at fault. But arguiing about 4th down decisions is as old as the game itself and you'll never please everyone.

Personally, I was fine with the FG at the time. The kids had a couple chances to score there and blew it. The game was predicted to be extremely low scoring, so I was fine taking points.
 

Face The Facts said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Some people let their rage cloud seeing the forest through the trees. I'm as disappointed as anyone about yesterday (and the season as a whole), but you don't build a program by constantly firing coaches -- especially those who have shown they can win at a high level in two programs. Compared to the Kill years, there's more overall talent, the roster is far deeper, and there's been more national hype around the program. Fleck has his shortcomings and needs to change his best FOR SURE...but burning things down right now would be a disaster of epic proportions.
 



MGGopher said:
I agree. People who dislike Fleck look for any excuse to raost him. People who like him probably search a little too hard for reasons he's not at fault. But arguiing about 4th down decisions is as old as the game itself and you'll never please everyone.

Personally, I was fine with the FG at the time. The kids had a couple chances to score there and blew it. The game was predicted to be extremely low scoring, so I was fine taking points.
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Team was winning at halftime.
You can argue it was wrong choice but it certainly didn’t “set the tone” to lose the game.
 

MGGopher said:
I agree. People who dislike Fleck look for any excuse to raost him. People who like him probably search a little too hard for reasons he's not at fault. But arguiing about 4th down decisions is as old as the game itself and you'll never please everyone.

Personally, I was fine with the FG at the time. The kids had a couple chances to score there and blew it. The game was predicted to be extremely low scoring, so I was fine taking points.
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Those decisions don’t have to be made if the QB doesn’t hold the ball and hits an open receiver.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Those decisions don’t have to be made if the QB doesn’t hold the ball and hits an open receiver.
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And even with the late high throw, the wideout whose hands it hit could’ve caught it
 

I agree with the original take. I think the Gophers should have gone for the TD on 4th and goal from the 2. Most analytics would agree with that, particularly in the college game and particularly in a game where touchdowns were thought to be at a premium.

Fleck often makes situational kicking decisions like he's got Justin Tucker out there and doesn't seem to adapt to the variance that most college kickers bring, and the way they change the math on situational choices.

There was probably a 10-15% chance of missing even a FG in the 20-29 range and that's meaningful, nevermind that it's basically a 2pt play with an expected value of 2.33x the points instead of 2.0x
 

It was not bad to kick a field goal then. As I recall, downs 1, 2, and 3 were miserable failures. You can't come away with nothing after a long drive like that.
 

Some guy said:
By definition, the best season in modern history is going to be better than the other seasons
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The fluke part was 11-2. It looks like Gopher football can consistently be a 7/8 win program and an occasional 9 win year under PJ. The norm, so to speak.

The apologists touted Fleck's 2019 season as new heights and swamping previous guys like Mason.

And as someone mentioned yesterday, Fleck's winning percentage is 58 while Mason was 54.

That ain't "elite". But as a long suffering Gopher fan, I'll accept it. Not that anyone should care what I think!!!!

I'll say one thing about PJ, he turned it into incredible job security thru 2028.
 


The first drive was disappointing, but it was the offensive approach in it's totality that made you feel they were going to lose the game since early int the first quarter.

The problem is that the Gophers offense is playing to lower the risk of making mistake instead of giving the opportunity to make big plays. It all has to do with trust and fear. WR's and QB's will not be as successful if they are only used in 3rd and 18 situations. Those are low probability plays that are typically doomed for failure. They need to play a little less predictable and stay out of those 3rd and 18 situations.
 

GophersInIowa said:
His decision making is just all over the place. He’ll go for it on 4th down deep in our own territory but won’t when at the goal line. He’s definitely a man of extremes. Extremely aggressive at times and extremely conservative at other times. He just doesn’t seem to understand the flow of the game sometimes.
Click to expand...
Nailed it.
 

DCinOK said:
It was not bad to kick a field goal then. As I recall, downs 1, 2, and 3 were miserable failures. You can't come away with nothing after a long drive like that.
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They gained 2 yards and 1 yard on the other two plays. Not great but not massive failure.
 

Boomtime said:
The fluke part was 11-2. It looks like Gopher football can consistently be a 7/8 win program and an occasional 9 win year under PJ. The norm, so to speak.

The apologists touted Fleck's 2019 season as new heights and swamping previous guys like Mason.

And as someone mentioned yesterday, Fleck's winning percentage is 58 while Mason was 54.

That ain't "elite". But as a long suffering Gopher fan, I'll accept it. Not that anyone should care what I think!!!!

I'll say one thing about PJ, he turned it into incredible job security thru 2028.
Click to expand...
2019 was new height and did blow Mason and kill’s best year out of the water.
if Minnesota beats Indiana next week it is a winning conference record in 2-3 seasons for the second time since the 60s

the first being kill/Claeys 5-3, 5-4 in ‘14-‘16

If the gophers lose the next two it’s still the best 3 year conference winning percentage since 60-63



you’re right. We aren’t winning consistently enough to be on the level of wisconsin and Iowa. this is the best 3 year stretch the program has had in conference play since the 60s


would love to have won more too


do you think we get rid of fleck?
 

Boomtime said:
He's 32-22 as a HC at Minnesota. He was 11-2 in 2019.

By definition, fluke means a one time occurrence/incredible piece of luck. Exhibit A-2019.
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How often do you need to win 11 games for it to not be considered a fluke?
 


Boomtime said:
The fluke part was 11-2. It looks like Gopher football can consistently be a 7/8 win program and an occasional 9 win year under PJ. The norm, so to speak.

The apologists touted Fleck's 2019 season as new heights and swamping previous guys like Mason.

And as someone mentioned yesterday, Fleck's winning percentage is 58 while Mason was 54.

That ain't "elite". But as a long suffering Gopher fan, I'll accept it. Not that anyone should care what I think!!!!

I'll say one thing about PJ, he turned it into incredible job security thru 2028.
Click to expand...
You’re just making up numbers? It looks like Fleck can have occasional 9 win seasons but more than that are flukes? Based on a 6 year span.
 

Face The Facts said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
Click to expand...
Your right about Fleck not going anywhere. Fleck, in 5 years has shown a marginal improvement over the last group. We will see in two years what that improvement really is.
 

Some guy said:
2019 was new height and did blow Mason and kill’s best year out of the water.
if Minnesota beats Indiana next week it is a winning conference record in 2-3 seasons for the second time since the 60s

the first being kill/Claeys 5-3, 5-4 in ‘14-‘16

If the gophers lose the next two it’s still the best 3 year conference winning percentage since 60-63



you’re right. We aren’t winning consistently enough to be on the level of wisconsin and Iowa. this is the best 3 year stretch the program has had in conference play since the 60s


would love to have won more too


do you think we get rid of fleck?
Click to expand...
Not playing Michigan, Michigan state, and Ohio state yearly might help the conference record each year.
 

Boomtime said:
The fluke part was 11-2. It looks like Gopher football can consistently be a 7/8 win program and an occasional 9 win year under PJ. The norm, so to speak.

The apologists touted Fleck's 2019 season as new heights and swamping previous guys like Mason.

And as someone mentioned yesterday, Fleck's winning percentage is 58 while Mason was 54.

That ain't "elite". But as a long suffering Gopher fan, I'll accept it. Not that anyone should care what I think!!!!

I'll say one thing about PJ, he turned it into incredible job security thru 2028.
Click to expand...
Do you really need to post this same thing over and over in each thread? We get it, you don’t like Fleck.

If anything, this year is showing 2019 wasn’t a fluke. The talent is there again, but the coaches aren’t putting the players in the best situations to succeed.

The contract is really not that big of a deal. He’s not getting fired in the next few years regardless of contract. His buyout goes down every year so if things get bad and he has to bd fired, he will be. The contract extension doesn’t change that.
 

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