Fleck set the tone of the game with our first score

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GophersInIowa said:
Do you really need to post this same thing over and over in each thread? We get it, you don’t like Fleck.

If anything, this year is showing 2019 wasn’t a fluke. The talent is there again, but the coaches aren’t putting the players in the best situations to succeed.

The contract is really not that big of a deal. He’s not getting fired in the next few years regardless of contract. His buyout goes down every year so if things get bad and he has to bd fired, he will be. The contract extension doesn’t change that.
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A 7 year contract to a middle of the road HC is like an anchor.

We're settling for 3/4 place in the West, which means 8/9 in the conference.

You're ok with that?
 

The book on PJF is coming into focus: he needs cerebral coordinators to succeed. Time to move on from Sanford and Wenger, maybe seek the advice of some mentors on who to hire next.

I feel like PJF is, at times, a victim of his own motivational tools.
 


PJ Fleck has an absolute glaring weakness to his coaching. He sImply has zero "feel" for the flow of the game. He has no understanding of momentum or probabilities and their impact on the overall game. His decision making is brutal, particularly at key times during the game. I don't believe he is panicking, I simply feel he cannot mentally process the decision at the time.

I do believe he is a fantastic ambassador for the University. He has absolutely created enthusiasm around the program and raised all of our expectations of where the team should finish. We now EXPECT the team to contend for the West and beyond. He seems to be doing a very good job of recruiting as well. I am far from jumping off the Fleck bandwagon although his game day decisions do have me cursing out loud at the TV LOL. I really hope he hires an OC and/or assistant head coach that will aid in the game day decisions. Fleck has all the other tools necessary to be a very successful head coach and make this program VERY competitive for years to come.
 

Boomtime said:
A 7 year contract to a middle of the road HC is like an anchor.

We're settling for 3/4 place in the West, which means 8/9 in the conference.

You're ok with that?
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No it’s not. If things really go south and they want to fire him in 3 years, he’ll be fired. His extension didn’t change that. A $5 million buyout isn’t going to stop it.
 


GophersInIowa said:
No it’s not. If things really go south and they want to fire him in 3 years, he’ll be fired. His extension didn’t change that. A $5 million buyout isn’t going to stop it.
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You know as well as I do that Fleck isn't getting fired while Coyle is the AD. Coyle hitched himself to RTB.
 

Face The Facts said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
You should know what Fleck is and what he isn't at this point.

If you don't see the improvement PJ has brought to the football program prior to him coming here, no one can help you.
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That's the problem, I can't really tell who he is. LOL

He is the most conservative coach i've ever seen (I like conservative coaches), then he attempts a 50+ yard FG with a guy who has never attempted kick. He runs an incredibly vanilla/ball control game, then he goes for it on 4th down against Bowling Green.
 

Boomtime said:
You know as well as I do that Fleck isn't getting fired while Coyle is the AD. Coyle hitched himself to RTB.
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I'm annoyed with Fleck over the last couple weeks, but the idea of the U firing Fleck is insane.

There are bumps, I get being annoyed, but our program doesn't get to fire coaches who have done what Fleck has done.

If we stay a 5-7 win team for the next 4 years, the seat might get a little warm. Right now, it's rightfully ice cold.
 

Boomtime said:
As Gopher fans, and I don't speak for anyone but myself, 9 wins two or three times a decade would be great.
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Okay, you hate our odds of winning 9 games again in any of the next four years?
 



Boomtime said:
He's 32-22 as a HC at Minnesota. He was 11-2 in 2019.

By definition, fluke means a one time occurrence/incredible piece of luck. Exhibit A-2019.
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So you're cutting out 25% of the sample population as pure noise (anomaly)?
 

CentralGopher said:
Guaranteed the same posters bitching about being too conservative would be bitching if they took a risk that burned them.
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100% this.

i would have been fine with going for it there but can also fully understand taking the points in what you have to assume is going to be a tight game.
 


CentralGopher said:
Guaranteed the same posters bitching about being too conservative would be bitching if they took a risk that burned them.
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I don't think that's the case at all.

After wins, if we complain about PJ's decisions, we get yelled at for only talking about the negative after a win.

After losses, we get comments like this.

I like PJ, I am glad he got extended and will continue to run this program, I just think he makes some bizarre in-game decisions and I think those decisions have cost us 2-3 games this year.

For the record, on that play, I would have went for it on 4th down but I wasn't annoyed when PJ took the points.
 



Boomtime said:
Depends... are we gonna count beating a crap ACC team with a 6-6 record in the PinStripe Bowl?
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Now we don't get to count all our wins? LOL

Do we have to count losing to Ohio State?
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Not playing Michigan, Michigan state, and Ohio state yearly might help the conference record each year.
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Minnesota has never played all 3 of those yearly. Minnesota has only played Ohio state 53 times in spite of being in the same conference for 110 years
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Now we don't get to count all our wins? LOL

Do we have to count losing to Ohio State?
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OK... we're lowering the bar again for Fleck. Pushing a canoe up river must be exhausting?

OK, that's it for me today. Onto the NFL.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
 

Boomtime said:
A 7 year contract to a middle of the road HC is like an anchor.

We're settling for 3/4 place in the West, which means 8/9 in the conference.

You're ok with that?
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It's not an anchor. There isn't a salary cap. If anything, it will help with recruiting.

It's exceptionally difficult to win at MN. The fact that we are rightfully pissed at how this season has been pissed away means we have really improved. We are in the mix and that's a fun place to be. Despite how the last couple of weeks have felt, it beats pure apathy.


I think the best way to become a 10 win team is to first be a team that wins 6-8 games every year.
 

Boomtime said:
You know as well as I do that Fleck isn't getting fired while Coyle is the AD. Coyle hitched himself to RTB.
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But you were just saying the contract is what is keeping him here. Now it’s Coyle.
 

Haters gonna hate, and we all know who they either through their words or actions, but you won't catch me cheering against the Maroon and Gold. I have been with them since the early Sixties so yes I'm disappointed, again, but I will not give up. Fleck is our guy, and he is smart enough to fix this. I trust he will find more talented skill players and that is what we need going forward. What I see also are players who are giving their all, who are committed, determined. Let's not lose sight of that either.
 

I still have no idea how these teams don’t have someone who majored in game theory on staff. Week after week across football guys make idiotic decisions against the percentages and it loses you games
 

Boomtime said:
OK... we're lowering the bar again for Fleck. Pushing a canoe up river must be exhausting?

OK, that's it for me today. Onto the NFL.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
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How am I lowering the bar? You don't seem to want to count all our wins, I was curious why you wouldn't count all our losses.

I'm not lowering the bar for Fleck. I am the furthest thing from a Fleck apologist, I'm just a college football fan. I said this when Claeys was canned - - winning 9 games at the U of MN is extremely difficult.

If you're a coach at the U of MN, IMO, you should be praised like crazy if you have a 9+ win season. You should have a TON of rope if you are winning 7+ games per season. I said this with Kill and I'm saying it with Fleck. My bar is pretty consistent.

Enjoy the weekend too!
 

GophersInIowa said:
His decision making is just all over the place. He’ll go for it on 4th down deep in our own territory but won’t when at the goal line. He’s definitely a man of extremes. Extremely aggressive at times and extremely conservative at other times. He just doesn’t seem to understand the flow of the game sometimes.
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He's good at talking. He can sell people, and he can give a motivation talk. And yes, he probably knows WR and DB's very well, based on his personal experience.

He has probably cost us games with his football decision making/game management. I don't think people would argue much against that.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
If you're a coach at the U of MN, IMO, you should be praised like crazy if you have a 9+ win season. You should have a TON of rope if you are winning 7+ games per season.
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With you on the first part. And we can still go 9-4 this year, with a win over Wisc.


Not with you on the second part. Nope. That said, it's not like Fleck has shown we're in for a bunch of 7 win seasons.


But just on principle, 7 wins doesn't do anything.

Rather spend a couple years rebuilding with a new regime, in the hopes of grasping upwards, than settle for 7 win seasons.
 

Boomtime said:
A 7 year contract to a middle of the road HC is like an anchor.

We're settling for 3/4 place in the West, which means 8/9 in the conference.

You're ok with that?
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Who do you want to be the coach?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
How am I lowering the bar? You don't seem to want to count all our wins, I was curious why you wouldn't count all our losses.

I'm not lowering the bar for Fleck. I am the furthest thing from a Fleck apologist, I'm just a college football fan. I said this when Claeys was canned - - winning 9 games at the U of MN is extremely difficult.

If you're a coach at the U of MN, IMO, you should be praised like crazy if you have a 9+ win season. You should have a TON of rope if you are winning 7+ games per season. I said this with Kill and I'm saying it with Fleck. My bar is pretty consistent.

Enjoy the weekend too!
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Yeah. We have been pretty lucky post wacker to be 4/5 with decent coaches.
 

Boomtime said:
The fluke part was 11-2. It looks like Gopher football can consistently be a 7/8 win program and an occasional 9 win year under PJ. The norm, so to speak.
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Mathematically speaking, 11-2 is a fluke for almost every program. There's a very limited number of schools who can win that much in any year, and even fewer on a consistent basis.

Look at all the "helmet schools" who flat out suck this year, and aren't even on this level.

If the Gophers can have a couple "special seasons" a decade with 10 or more wins, and otherwise be a solid, upper-middle class P5 team going to bowl games most years and avoiding the stinker seasons...that puts us ahead of most. Maybe one of the special seasons gets really special, and the Gophers win the Big Ten and possibly eke into the playoff.

This is probably the ceiling for Gopher football, with a chance to have a few more 10 win seasons as the program develops through the decade under hopefully stable coaching.
 

fmlizard said:
If the Gophers can have a couple "special seasons" a decade with 10 or more wins, and otherwise be a solid, upper-middle class P5 team going to bowl games most years and avoiding the stinker seasons...that puts us ahead of most.
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What would be a good comparison of that, from other P5?

In the Big Ten ... frankly, what you're describing is simply what Iowa and Wisconsin, roughly, are now and have been for a while.


We can't also be that, with them both. Not enough wins to go around. We have to displace one of them.
 

MplsGopher said:
What would be a good comparison of that, from other P5?

In the Big Ten ... frankly, what you're describing is simply what Iowa and Wisconsin, roughly, are now and have been for a while.


We can't also be that, with them both. Not enough wins to go around. We have to displace one of them.
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That season was even more unique in that the two loses were to Iowa and Wisconsin, replicating that in the future is a near impossibility under continued Iowa/Wisconsin loss model. That one season is throwing tons of posters off, the goal going forward needs to be 50/50 splits in Floyd and Axe games. We are further behind the 8 ball than the pollyanna posters realize.
 

Replacing PJF is a non-starter. He needs better lieutenants. If he can hit on the right assistant coaches and maintain recruiting at a decent level the team should do pretty well. It will probably be a roller coaster experience.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm annoyed with Fleck over the last couple weeks, but the idea of the U firing Fleck is insane.

There are bumps, I get being annoyed, but our program doesn't get to fire coaches who have done what Fleck has done.

If we stay a 5-7 win team for the next 4 years, the seat might get a little warm. Right now, it's rightfully ice cold.
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Add running a clean ship to that.
 

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