Fleck is fired up on KFAN

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fmlizard said:
I don't watch much European soccer. It's not because I don't like watching soccer, it's because the same 2-4 clubs win every single league every single season on a hugely imbalanced financial playing field and thus I find the leagues boring.

Contrary to the USA's economic tendencies, the socialism of America's sports leagues stand out from the rest of the world. There's a draft, losers get the first pick, salary caps keep the spending fair, players are unionized, and fans of almost any franchise can realistically imagine their team being good in a couple years.

It's as if CFB learned nothing from the success of every other North American sports league. Organization is badly needed, because the current model is the most disorganized I know of in all of paid team sports, worldwide. Even those soccer teams have player contracts and movement rules.
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The irony is that the capitalists are socialists (professional leagues have various levels of sharer media, salary caps and even revenue sharing) and the socialists are capitalists (universities don't share or ensure equal distribution of resources).
 


Ski-UT-Mah said:
Are you aware of the state of the basketball program?
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That's the thing that makes it apparent that there'll never be NIL to make FB relevant - the state of the BB program. FB success at the U is ancient history. BB on the other hand: It wasn't that long ago that Gopher men's basketball was probably second to only the Vikings in the sports scene and certainly when competitive, ruled the winter sports scene. There are living people who aren't in nursing homes, in prime earning years, who remember very good Gopher teams and the deafening thunder of Williams Arena. Buying a basketball team would be much easier than buying a competitive, relevant FB. It hasn't happened. No indication it will. If not BB, it certainly won't happen with FB.
 

fmlizard said:
I didn't read all the previous 10 pages but Minnesota's NIL deficit has to be a matter of priorities vs. ability.

Minnesota is the wealthiest state in the Midwest by household income. (look at all the blue states)

Minnesota makes a lot more money than all the SEC states. The average Minnesotan makes about 40-50% more money than the average Alabaman. This is part of why the Big Ten TV contract is more valuable than the SEC contract.

I realize I'm comparing incomes for average people versus the donor class, but Minnesota also has a much stronger corporate base per capita than any of the SEC states. The Twin Cities have more Fortune 1000 companies than the Miami, Tampa Bay, Orlando, and Jacksonville metro areas put together, but look who has all the NIL.

So why won't Minnesotans shell out for NIL? I get the pro effect - a local corporation will sign a promo deal with Justin Jefferson instead of Chris Autman-Bell, but that doesn't explain all of it.

Is it chicken and egg? The team must win big for wallets to open, but can't win big without the $$?
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Yup, we don’t win critical games when we need to AND we lose to random teams when we’re supposed to win.

Don’t win = no one is excited
No one excited = no one spends money

Win games and win big games = people get excited
People get excited = we spend money
 

Dakota2 said:
So if Coach Fleck says “hey, let’s go” do such and such the players have the option to do it or not do it?
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For certain things like this I would assume so. I don't think the entire team is in that video.
 


swede2 said:
Go back and read a few pages. Consensus is that NIL isn't a "big corporation" or "fortune xxxx" deal. It's smaller private capital owned by fanatics, not board rooms of publicly traded companies.
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Correct. I wanted to scream at the responses to the Chris Long Twitter post. Idiots claiming that the 3M's and Cargill's of the world should be the ones paying for NIL that don't understand who actually funds these things. It's individual ultra-wealthy people. Sure, they may be associated with companies, but they're paying for players with their personal fortunes.
 

Yah-E said:
Yup, we don’t win critical games when we need to AND we lose to random teams when we’re supposed to win.

Don’t win = no one is excited
No one excited = no one spends money

Win games and win big games = people get excited
People get excited = we spend money
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The people of Minnesota are never going to spend the money to be competitive in NIL. It’s not in the culture. U of M is not a football school, Minneapolis has the Vikings and many other optIons. Gopher football is a far distant competitor.
 

A few thoughts.

Everybody has angst over losing Bucky and rightfully so, but is he the same player here as he is at Oregon? I’d argue no, we don’t split our RBs out wide almost like a receiver, screen him and bubble him. Tyler is very dynamic but we don’t put him out in space, instead we want him to smash inside…that’s not what he is built for.

With NIL many have said the NCAA will figure this out or lose everyone. How confident are you that they figure anything out? All they do is screw up. I don’t think they will.

So if the best programs (say 15-20 better than us for sure) poach all the best players from our team and the next tier, why can’t we do the same with the next tier or two below us? Would that keep us competitive enough or would all be lost still?

I hate not having some degree of parity. At least tighten the transfer rule so you can keep your guys at least for a little while. This Wild West stuff sucks!
 

Word said:
There's zero evidence a player has been suspended due to something like this. That's why I don't even understand where you're coming from.
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Hypothetical discussion? I mean, people discuss possibilities for things all the time, even if they haven't been confirmed as happening yet.

Also, with Fleck, do you really expect to find evidence of this? Things usually stay pretty in-house, as far as I can tell. So for all we know, Zach Evans could be suspended for exactly this, but we'd never know.

Could it be you just don't like what I said or the way I said it?
 




Word said:
Who said they were ordered? Have you ever been part of a team or school team?

I'm involved in club and high school soccer and we do this kind of stuff for other teams within the club/school. You don't have to order anyone to do it. You just say, hey let's go support our friends and colleagues and decent people just do that stuff willingly.
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Honest question: if you had a small group of soccer players who never partook in such things while the rest of the team did, would you just let it go or would you talk to them about it?
 

All these recurring themes of Minnesota not having enough Gopher fans... Yet almost everyone I know was talking about the NW loss. There's a lot more out there than I realized.

We have SO MUCH wealth in our corporate sector, how in god's name is Coyle not soaking that for all it's worth? Perhaps he's tried, but he needs to try harder.
 




Word said:
For certain things like this I would assume so. I don't think the entire team is in that video.
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Well that answers my initial point then. ;) If Fleck gives people the option on this stuff, and doesn't punish them for not doing it, then I'd be a booster.

Thanks.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
we need a powerball winner really bad. That's about only way someone has enough money to waste on NIL. I dont like those odds.
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Terrible odds but a great idea.

Maybe GHers should commit to $1 for a PowerBall drawing each week with at least 50% of any wins going to the Dinkytown NIL collective? You're basically committing to $52/yr.

The hassle factor is modest but Mrs. Billd and myself are going to drop that later today for our weekly cheap happy hour margaritas and appetizer plate while playing a round of GOLF the card game.

It would be hilarious if indeed someone actually hit it big and kept to the pledge. Might just start ourselves and see where it goes.

Even the collective itself should consider this...or going down to Treasure Island for a shot at the blackjack tables...I believe the IRS forms have a line for this type of activity...just sayin'...:p
 

Pompous Elitist said:
He’s not wrong. Change your best.

Pretty demoralizing week around here. How long until the boo birds make an appearance at games, rock bottom.
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He is wrong. PJ didn't once blame the NW loss on NIL.

He was talking about how great Darius Taylor has been the last three weeks, and then brought up how great another RB was as a freshman that they lost due to NIL - Bucky, and that it will happen again.

But of course there are the posters and loser media members like Ruesse who can't wait to try and connect the dots about anything to fuel their hatred for PJ.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He is wrong. PJ didn't once blame the NW loss on NIL.

He was talking about how great Darius Taylor has been the last three weeks, and then brought up how great another RB was as a freshman that they lost due to NIL - Bucky, and that it will happen again.

But of course there are the posters and loser media members like Ruesse who can't wait to try and connect the dots about anything to fuel their hatred for PJ.
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it was a nice distraction for the local media to avoid his unchanging best vis a vis in game coaching
 

BilldGopher said:
Terrible odds but a great idea.

Maybe GHers should commit to $1 for a PowerBall drawing each week with at least 50% of any wins going to the Dinkytown NIL collective? You're basically committing to $52/yr.

The hassle factor is modest but Mrs. Billd and myself are going to drop that later today for our weekly cheap happy hour margaritas and appetizer plate while playing a round of GOLF the card game.

It would be hilarious if indeed someone actually hit it big and kept to the pledge. Might just start ourselves and see where it goes.

Even the collective itself should consider this...or going down to Treasure Island for a shot at the blackjack tables...I believe the IRS forms have a line for this type of activity...just sayin'...:p
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At Cubs games they have a 50/50 raffle with people canvassing in the stands and concourses during every game at Wrigley (and if you live in Illinois you can now contribute/play online too, so there doesn't even need to be a game), with half the pot going to the holder of a winning ticket, and the other half going to Cubs charities. Why couldn't they do that at every home game for every sport to support the Dinkytown Athletes collective, which, like Cubs Charities, is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization? Seems people would love the lottery-like aspect where they can potentially take home some cash, while also feeling good about contributing to Gopher athletics.

www.mlb.com

Cubs Charities 50/50 Raffle | Chicago Cubs

Raffle results from Cubs Charities.
www.mlb.com www.mlb.com
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
He is wrong. PJ didn't once blame the NW loss on NIL.

He was talking about how great Darius Taylor has been the last three weeks, and then brought up how great another RB was as a freshman that they lost due to NIL - Bucky, and that it will happen again.

But of course there are the posters and loser media members like Ruesse who can't wait to try and connect the dots about anything to fuel their hatred for PJ.
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It is amazing to see how some people can bend over backwards making connections that don't exist. The Northwestern loss and the NIL piece are two totally separate things, it really isn't complicated yet as has been shown in this thread over and over again there are posters that can't seem to figure it out.

There is a broader discussion about where the schools that can't afford big pay for play money fit in the current college football landscape. Schools like Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan State, Indiana are going to struggle to keep pace with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC, Oregon.....crowd.

As long as you have open pay for play combined with free transfers and immediate eligibility you are going to have players jumping ship and chasing the money.

The reality is that it is going to take super deep pockets to compete with the big spenders in football and most programs aren't going to be able to afford to do it.

Overall, the college football landscape is just as skewed towards the have's over the have nots as it has been for a long time now. The Haves group might get a little bigger as there will be some schools that find ways to compete in the pay for play landscape that maybe couldn't when you had to do it under the table. But the vast majority of teams, even at the power 5 level will have a hard time even trying to keep pace.

If things stay as wide open as they currently are, there is a split of some kind coming in football.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It is amazing to see how some people can bend over backwards making connections that don't exist. The Northwestern loss and the NIL piece are two totally separate things, it really isn't complicated yet as has been shown in this thread over and over again there are posters that can't seem to figure it out.

There is a broader discussion about where the schools that can't afford big pay for play money fit in the current college football landscape. Schools like Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan State, Indiana are going to struggle to keep pace with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC, Oregon.....crowd.

As long as you have open pay for play combined with free transfers and immediate eligibility you are going to have players jumping ship and chasing the money.

The reality is that it is going to take super deep pockets to compete with the big spenders in football and most programs aren't going to be able to afford to do it.

Overall, the college football landscape is just as skewed towards the have's over the have nots as it has been for a long time now. The Haves group might get a little bigger as there will be some schools that find ways to compete in the pay for play landscape that maybe couldn't when you had to do it under the table. But the vast majority of teams, even at the power 5 level will have a hard time even trying to keep pace.

If things stay as wide open as they currently are, there is a split of some kind coming in football.
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At some point there will be more sideboards. But for now it's 1872 Dodge City when it had zero judicial and law enforcement structures. Better be packin'...
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Honest question: if you had a small group of soccer players who never partook in such things while the rest of the team did, would you just let it go or would you talk to them about it?
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If they had a good reason I would just let it go.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Hypothetical discussion? I mean, people discuss possibilities for things all the time, even if they haven't been confirmed as happening yet.

Also, with Fleck, do you really expect to find evidence of this? Things usually stay pretty in-house, as far as I can tell. So for all we know, Zach Evans could be suspended for exactly this, but we'd never know.

Could it be you just don't like what I said or the way I said it?
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I think some people were talking about it like it was a known fact.
 

The incredible one to me is Oregon.

U of Oregon is nothing when it comes to research. They have no medical. Very low research, compared to state flagships with huge medical research. Similar in that sense to Nebraska. Should have been kicked out of the AAU the same time as Neb. Suspect bribes were given to prevent that. Makes no sense otherwise.


Incredible how one man. One. Man. With enough FU cash and enough love for the school, can force things to happen that would never have happened naturally otherwise.

Without Phil Knight, Oregon isn’t anything different than Oregon State. Maybe a smidge lower.

Incredible. That could never happen in Minnesota. We would never get to have something like that.
 

Ski-UT-Mah said:
Are you aware of the state of the basketball program?
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I think the point is that it's a lot easier to come up with NIL for the 8 guys it would take to be good in basketball than the 30 it would in football.
 

swede2 said:
That's the thing that makes it apparent that there'll never be NIL to make FB relevant - the state of the BB program. FB success at the U is ancient history. BB on the other hand: It wasn't that long ago that Gopher men's basketball was probably second to only the Vikings in the sports scene and certainly when competitive, ruled the winter sports scene. There are living people who aren't in nursing homes, in prime earning years, who remember very good Gopher teams and the deafening thunder of Williams Arena. Buying a basketball team would be much easier than buying a competitive, relevant FB. It hasn't happened. No indication it will. If not BB, it certainly won't happen with FB.
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It wasn't that long ago?

Easily 20+.

What do you consider a long time?
100 years?
 

MNVCGUY said:
It is amazing to see how some people can bend over backwards making connections that don't exist. The Northwestern loss and the NIL piece are two totally separate things, it really isn't complicated yet as has been shown in this thread over and over again there are posters that can't seem to figure it out.

There is a broader discussion about where the schools that can't afford big pay for play money fit in the current college football landscape. Schools like Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan State, Indiana are going to struggle to keep pace with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC, Oregon.....crowd.

As long as you have open pay for play combined with free transfers and immediate eligibility you are going to have players jumping ship and chasing the money.

The reality is that it is going to take super deep pockets to compete with the big spenders in football and most programs aren't going to be able to afford to do it.

Overall, the college football landscape is just as skewed towards the have's over the have nots as it has been for a long time now. The Haves group might get a little bigger as there will be some schools that find ways to compete in the pay for play landscape that maybe couldn't when you had to do it under the table. But the vast majority of teams, even at the power 5 level will have a hard time even trying to keep pace.

If things stay as wide open as they currently are, there is a split of some kind coming in football.
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It was poor timing and everyone knows it. For guy who prides himself on his PR ability it was completely tone deaf.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
At this point I'd write off football and just take the huge payday and spend on basketball and hockey. Just put out a collection of 85 walk-ons and lose big while getting PAID.
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Basketball fine, but a football team that goes 6-6 or heck even 5-7 or 4-8 makes more money and more people care than a Hockey team that wins the National title. Here is the deal with Hockey. No one cares. MN and ND care. That's it.
Football drives everything and Men's BBall is second. This is true for every school out there.
 

Dano564 said:
It wasn't that long ago?

Easily 20+.

What do you consider a long time?
100 years?
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I'm in my 40's. It happened in my lifetime. FB? 1960s. You need to be 70+ to have real memories of a nationally relevant Gopher FB team. Maybe if you're 20, 25 years ago might seem like ancient history. But you don't need to be a boomer to remember the barn regularly bursting a the seems and being one of the toughest places to play in the country.
 

BilldGopher said:
At some point there will be more sideboards. But for now it's 1872 Dodge City when it had zero judicial and law enforcement structures. Better be packin'...
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completely off-topic, but in the interest of historical accuracy, you're a few years off. from Wikipedia:

The peak years of the cattle trade in Dodge City were from 1883 to 1884, and during that time the town grew tremendously.

Dodge City became known as a true frontier settlement of the Old West. Dodge City had more gunfighters working at one time or another than any other town in the West, many of whom participated in the Dodge City War of 1883. It had saloons, gambling halls, and brothels, including the Long Branch Saloon and China Doll brothel.

By the mid-1880s, Dodge City began working to change its image away from that of a violent western town and towards that of a more peaceful and civilized location.
 

Mr. 131 said:
All these recurring themes of Minnesota not having enough Gopher fans... Yet almost everyone I know was talking about the NW loss. There's a lot more out there than I realized.

We have SO MUCH wealth in our corporate sector, how in god's name is Coyle not soaking that for all it's worth? Perhaps he's tried, but he needs to try harder.
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Agreed. It’s hard to imagine with the Carlson School of Business, Cargill, Medtronic, Pillsbury n Target that there are not some higher wealth individuals with connections to the U ? So maybe their company can’t figure out how to use an athlete for marketing but that does not mean the individual couldn’t contribute or be an “ Elite “ club member for football donors.
 

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