Fire PJ immediately please

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Great Plains Gopher said:
Thanks for a frank look at the situation. Minnesota and other schools stressing academics and unable to compete with the wealthiest programs either on the field or off, may drop out of the elite levels and enjoy something like the Dakota teams, especially N. Dakota State, which has a large and loyal following.
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Perhaps we should take a perverse pride in being perennial underdogs which would allow us to rush the field for any win.
 

They try to get $250K in donations in their upcoming fundraising event at that golf course, who the F will donate when you don’t win?

We get it and accept if you don’t win versus MI or tOSU, but my god, to be up by 3 TDs and then allow it to go into OT and lose? Cmon! Even if we did win that game last night, we’d still be pissed and irritated to allow NW to come back like they did, but with a LOSS? Man, I’m still fuming!

I can see it now, all previous committed 4⭐️ and even some 3⭐️ recruits will drop MN because we are irrelevant and we don’t have NIL money to provide them. We don’t have NIL money because we don’t win games that we’re supposed to win.

PJ does not have any “Prime effect”, we as a program don’t have competitive NIL sponsors or money, we don’t win games, we don’t really have much to attract talents. It’s a broken wheel.

MN will forever be stuck with most 2-3⭐️ recruits and a 2nd to bottom tier B1G team, especially now with 4 amazing PAC 12 teams rolling into B1G next year.

Imagine the recruiting power those 4 PAC12 teams will have once their in the B1G conference?! They’re already winning programs, they already have top recruiting classes without being in the B1G conference, and now they’ll get even more media money from being in the B1G! C’mon, it’s like adding more gas into a huge bonfire!

Formula to turn our program around?

1) New HC who’s will get us more 4⭐️ and our first 5⭐️ recruits

2) we start winning

3) more NIL donations due to the fact that we’re winning all sort of games (games that we should AND games that we were dogs in)

4) now with more NIL money, more 4⭐️ and 5⭐️ recruits

Reinvent the wheel!

All starts with a new HC that will have some sort of “effect”

Not this RTB culture. RTB is a great philosophy to better a person, not to winning games.
 

Like most of you, I question PJ'S game day coaching. But more than "game day", I'm much more concerned about his coaching in practice. He sees this shit every day and thinks it looks effective. He ain't that bright.
 

Yah-E said:
They try to get $250K in donations in their upcoming fundraising event at that golf course, who the F will donate when you don’t win?

We get it and accept if you don’t win versus MI or tOSU, but my god, to be up by 3 TDs and then allow it to go into OT and lose? Cmon! Even if we did win that game last night, we’d still be pissed and irritated to allow NW to come back like they did, but with a LOSS? Man, I’m still fuming!

I can see it now, all previous committed 4⭐️ and even some 3⭐️ recruits will drop MN because we are irrelevant and we don’t have NIL money to provide them. We don’t have NIL money because we don’t win games that we’re supposed to win.

PJ does not have any “Prime effect”, we as a program don’t have competitive NIL sponsors or money, we don’t win games, we don’t really have much to attract talents. It’s a broken wheel.

MN will forever be stuck with most 2-3⭐️ recruits and a 2nd to bottom tier B1G team, especially now with 4 amazing PAC 12 teams rolling into B1G next year.

Imagine the recruiting power those 4 PAC12 teams will have once their in the B1G conference?! They’re already winning programs, they already have top recruiting classes without being in the B1G conference, and now they’ll get even more media money from being in the B1G! C’mon, it’s like adding more gas into a huge bonfire!

Formula to turn our program around?

1) New HC who’s will get us more 4⭐️ and our first 5⭐️ recruits

2) we start winning

3) more NIL donations due to the fact that we’re winning all sort of games (games that we should AND games that we were dogs in)

4) now with more NIL money, more 4⭐️ and 5⭐️ recruits

Reinvent the wheel!

All starts with a new HC that will have some sort of “effect”

Not this RTB culture. RTB is a great philosophy to better a person, not to winning games.
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The level of NIL money to compete with the big boys doesn't come from a few donors that open their wallets for a few grand because the team beats Michigan once.

The level of NIL money to compete with the big boys comes from the level of a billionaire fan who is able to buy wins for his favorite football or basketball team.

$250,000 from a golf fundraiser? That's pennies. That may may for a 3* backup RB going forward. Maybe.
 

disco said:
The level of NIL money to compete with the big boys doesn't come from a few donors that open their wallets for a few grand because the team beats Michigan once.

The level of NIL money to compete with the big boys comes from the level of a billionaire fan who is able to buy wins for his favorite football or basketball team.

$250,000 from a golf fundraiser? That's pennies. That may may for a 3* backup RB going forward. Maybe.
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I know! But this $250K event is an attempt to get more since MN ain’t got none!

Whole point is MN don’t have what it takes to compete in NIL and because of that, MN won’t ever get the big time talented recruits!

Dinkytown Athletes isn’t going to say, “we’re going to make a fundraiser event with a $5M goal!? No, they’re going to start small with a $250K goal

Don’t matter what their fundraising goal number is, they won’t get it, MN won’t get it, because when you don’t win, you ain’t gonna get funded! Period.
 


Yah-E said:
I know! But this $250K event is an attempt to get more since MN ain’t got none!

Whole point is MN don’t have what it takes to compete in NIL and because of that, MN won’t ever get the big time talented recruits!

Dinkytown Athletes isn’t going to say, “we’re going to make a fundraiser event with a $5M goal!? No, they’re going to start small with a $250K goal

Don’t matter what their fundraising goal number is, they won’t get it, MN won’t get it, because when you don’t win, you ain’t gonna get funded! Period.
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So who do you hire that will instantly get us all these 5 stars?
 

BTW, the power of crowd funding is very powerful as we all have seen many crowdfunding causes has collected $M if not $B

So we’d be surprised how much us alumni and Gophers fan came come up together as a crowd.

BUT, when you don’t win? None of us is going to open our wallets.

Look back in 2019 when we were winning, Gopher athletics probably collected the most in donations since god knows how long ago.

It’s easy, win, you’ll get paid. Lose, sorry, no money for you.

TBH, 4⭐️ and 5⭐️ recruits now want more than money. Money it’s just the conversation opener.
 

I read an article this year about a Penn State alumni, former athlete, who was talking about one of the school sports -- I forget which one --underperforming, and he said, "I got on the phone and said, 'we're Penn State, this isn't acceptable," and raised a bunch of NIL money for it.

Minnesota isn't connected with the community like that. This town is a Vikings town, kind of a Twins town, Etc.

And then St Thomas with connections to the business community is trying to be a counter to Minnesota, building the MBA school, law school, and a top basketball and hockey arena sports complex.

The NIL situation is a tough one here.

And there's much I don't know. Like why isn't Nebraska doing better, they should be the team in town.
 




PJ Fleck has a contract through 2029. There's an agreement he's locked in through 2026, an "iron lock" period.

He earned that for getting and keeping Minnesota at respectable level.


So this week was bad, an historic collapse in the 4th for this school, multiple problems with the offense sustaining things and now inexplicably the secondary flips exact opposite to horrific. And decisions questioned.


So the roast is on.

Actual firing isn't an option, and I haven't said those words.
 

Six of the top ten teams in polls this morning will be in the B18 next year. In seven years the Gophers have not able to get past Iowa and Wisconsin and win the West even once. How will they do with the four best Pac-12 teams joining Michigan, Ohio St and Penn St in the new conference? The changes in the game - NIL, open transfer, TV money expansion of the B10, all work against Minnesota. PJ, at 60% is the winningest coach since Bierman; it's unlikely we could find anyone doing better given what the B10 is turning into. Pay-per-view streaming of individual teams may be coming, too, given the greed out there, and that won't work in our favor, either. Playing at a lower level may be the only answer, unless a young Knute Rockne or Bernie Bierman comes out of nowhere and is also the best recruiter in the conference...
 





I resemble the Washburn-McCreavy remark compared to many GHers but am not ready to blow this edition of the Gophers up yet.

The current HC has a mindset that basically worked through the Tanner-Mo Era of Fleckball...really the first 6 years. A LOT has happened since that first press conference with Coyle sending the previous group out the door. In general Coach Fleck has been up to the challenge to date.

It does however appear we're approaching some kind of inflection point...could have said "inFLECKtion" point but resisted...that is quickly coming to a boil. Eerily reminiscent of 2018 where the box score was W-W-W-L-L-L-W-L...the 8th game a loss to Chief Iliniwek that was the last straw for that season...and the DC was fired and we finished the season with W-L-W-W (that L to Northwestern go figure).

We know he can change things but just hates doing so. Some particular aspect of his ego construct. Willing to say he's responsible for something going wrong but then by all appearances goes ahead and keeps doing it.

Me, not in the grave yet. Hoping to see it figured out as there's still 8 games to go.
 

No, we’re not going to even attempt to “outspend” other schools for recruits.

We don’t have the money to do that anyway.

I’m glad too. That’s not how it should work.
 

@Great Plains Gopher you hit it dead on the head.

Gophers really don’t have a chance in the new $Big Ten$. And they’re not “supposed” to.

They’re to be fodder, as are programs like Illinois, Purdue, Indians, NW, Rutgers, etc, to boost the records of the top, TV viewer grabbing programs.


When those programs all wise up and decide they’re tired of sharing their money with the Minnesota’s at all, they’ll ditch the Big Ten and SEC. Probably have their own private playoff.

That’s when, defacto Gophers and programs like us will no longer have to worry about competing with the top tier. Then, we can star being nationally competitive again, within that new tier.
 


MplsGopher said:
I’m glad too. That’s not how it should work.
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That's your opinion. Nobody cares how you think anything should work.

The reality is this is how it DOES work, and I would like the Gophers to remain at the highest level of college football and not relegated to some minor league.
 

Yah-E said:
They try to get $250K in donations in their upcoming fundraising event at that golf course, who the F will donate when you don’t win?

We get it and accept if you don’t win versus MI or tOSU, but my god, to be up by 3 TDs and then allow it to go into OT and lose? Cmon! Even if we did win that game last night, we’d still be pissed and irritated to allow NW to come back like they did, but with a LOSS? Man, I’m still fuming!

I can see it now, all previous committed 4⭐️ and even some 3⭐️ recruits will drop MN because we are irrelevant and we don’t have NIL money to provide them. We don’t have NIL money because we don’t win games that we’re supposed to win.

PJ does not have any “Prime effect”, we as a program don’t have competitive NIL sponsors or money, we don’t win games, we don’t really have much to attract talents. It’s a broken wheel.

MN will forever be stuck with most 2-3⭐️ recruits and a 2nd to bottom tier B1G team, especially now with 4 amazing PAC 12 teams rolling into B1G next year.

Imagine the recruiting power those 4 PAC12 teams will have once their in the B1G conference?! They’re already winning programs, they already have top recruiting classes without being in the B1G conference, and now they’ll get even more media money from being in the B1G! C’mon, it’s like adding more gas into a huge bonfire!

Formula to turn our program around?

1) New HC who’s will get us more 4⭐️ and our first 5⭐️ recruits

2) we start winning

3) more NIL donations due to the fact that we’re winning all sort of games (games that we should AND games that we were dogs in)

4) now with more NIL money, more 4⭐️ and 5⭐️ recruits

Reinvent the wheel!

All starts with a new HC that will have some sort of “effect”

Not this RTB culture. RTB is a great philosophy to better a person, not to winning games.
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You aren’t going to find a coach that will come in and bring in a bunch of four and five stars. That’s just make believe.
 

btowngopher said:
You aren’t going to find a coach that will come in and bring in a bunch of four and five stars. That’s just make believe.
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The only possible person out there would be Urban Meyer, but the U wouldn't dare hire someone who would be win at all costs (unfortunately.)
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Six of the top ten teams in polls this morning will be in the B18 next year. In seven years the Gophers have not able to get past Iowa and Wisconsin and win the West even once. How will they do with the four best Pac-12 teams joining Michigan, Ohio St and Penn St in the new conference? The changes in the game - NIL, open transfer, TV money expansion of the B10, all work against Minnesota. PJ, at 60% is the winningest coach since Bierman; it's unlikely we could find anyone doing better given what the B10 is turning into. Pay-per-view streaming of individual teams may be coming, too, given the greed out there, and that won't work in our favor, either. Playing at a lower level may be the only answer, unless a young Knute Rockne or Bernie Bierman comes out of nowhere and is also the best recruiter in the conference...
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I hear what you are saying, it certainly looks daunting. So what do we do? How do we enter into that upper level? I don’t think it happens. I think we are what we are as a program because for every hire that brings the program up (PJ) you get one that brings it down (Brewster). There are no guarantees, even for the “haves” like Michigan, Norte Dame, etc. We see it time and time again. I don’t have the answer, but I think we need to continue developing and perhaps have everything hit, I’m not sure we can do it any other way here given the challenges stated.
 


Word said:
Keep in mind Torres is a premier League fan, where some teams fire 3 managers a season. He's probably used to it.
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Liverpool hired Klopp about a year about the timr pj joined the U. Since then Liverpool have won ever trophy imaginable. Including first PL title in almost 30 years and a champions League for the first time since 2005. He’s become a club legend. Is still there and is adored.

PJ has lost to Iowa 7 times. And Wisconsin 4 times (5?). Not won the big ten west (not to mention an actual title) or a bowl game of any significance.
 

Look, FBS college FB already exists in tiers.

there is the top tier of teams that contend for national titles. under the current playoff system, since 2014, 14 different teams have appeared in the playoffs, but only 5 have appeared more than twice: Bama (13), Clemson(10), OSU(7), Georgia(6) and Oklahoma(4).

then there is a second tier of teams that show up in the top-25 rankings and play in major bowl games. The Gophers have finished in the top-25 once under Fleck. they were in the final rankings twice under Mason. (went from '68 to '99 without a top-25 finish in the AP or Coaches' Polls)

next, teams that post records of .500 or above and play in bowl games. This is where the Gophers have been 7 times under Mason, twice under Brewster, 4 times under Kill/Claeys, and 4 times under Fleck.

so the question - can Fleck move the Gophers from the 3rd tier to the 2nd tier? If he can't, can someone else make it happen, or is it impossible?
 


@short ornery norwegian you nailed it right on the head.

Gophers are solidly a 3rd tier program and that really hasn't changed. Fleck 2019 year we were 2nd tier. Maybe Kill Citrus bowl 2014 year? Mason 2003 season.

Those are exceptions.

So far, no coach has really been able to move the Gophers into that 2nd tier.


College football is not anything anywhere near resembling a level playing field. It's a cabal at the top and they want to keep it that way. They want to use programs like Minnesota to pad the W-L record of the elite programs, and throw us a bone now and then.
 

Allshade said:
Like most of you, I question PJ'S game day coaching. But more than "game day", I'm much more concerned about his coaching in practice. He sees this shit every day and thinks it looks effective. He ain't that bright.
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Correct.
My biggest thing with PJ is he appears to be dumb. What else do you attribute making the same mistakes over and over and over again to?

Even his decision to get a facelift was dumb. Dude, you’re a public figure and everyone is going to notice that and the perceived vanity isn’t going to play well in football circles. Neither are capri pants.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look, FBS college FB already exists in tiers.

there is the top tier of teams that contend for national titles. under the current playoff system, since 2014, 14 different teams have appeared in the playoffs, but only 5 have appeared more than twice: Bama (13), Clemson(10), OSU(7), Georgia(6) and Oklahoma(4).

then there is a second tier of teams that show up in the top-25 rankings and play in major bowl games. The Gophers have finished in the top-25 once under Fleck. they were in the final rankings twice under Mason. (went from '68 to '99 without a top-25 finish in the AP or Coaches' Polls)

next, teams that post records of .500 or above and play in bowl games. This is where the Gophers have been 7 times under Mason, twice under Brewster, 4 times under Kill/Claeys, and 4 times under Fleck.

so the question - can Fleck move the Gophers from the 3rd tier to the 2nd tier? If he can't, can someone else make it happen, or is it impossible?
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Good summary
 

Hopefully, PJ can improve his best. He sometimes seems to coach like I play poker. We both tend to turtle up when we get a lead!!! Sometimes you need to be a little more aggressive and unpredictable. I like him as our head coach, but the B1G is one of the two strongest conferences in the country and it is only getting stronger. Big Ten programs can hire the best-of-the-best because they can pay the most. He was considered that type of hire. His resume was similar to Luke Fickell's. They both dominated the competition at a level below the Power 5. The B1G should be and mostly is a conference of the very best coaches. It isn't easy to win and you don't get to stay if you don't. I'm sure the administration will just see how this year goes and reevaluate. We are fortunate that we'll have great options.
 

disco said:
The only possible person out there would be Urban Meyer, but the U wouldn't dare hire someone who would be win at all costs (unfortunately.)
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He wouldn't have been able to do it either without cheating. Even before NIL, the only way any of these programs were any good was to cheat and pay their players.

The U, completely ruined their athletic program when they did what they did to Clem Haskins. It isn't any individual coach's fault that we don't win here. It is and always has been on the University and it's athletic department.
 

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