FIRE GREG HARBAUGH

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

We generally throw short passes, that’s fine considering the OL.

But we have a ton of play calls that are ALL OR NOTHING.

If the defense plays it wrong (like REALLY wrong), it could be good, but if they don’t it’s a guaranteed 0 yard gain. Way too many of those plays.

I do NOT want to see the pass to a stationary Brockington at the line anymore, it doesn’t work. The DBs know they don’t have to play back and Brockington has NO CHANCE.


It feels like the offensive coaching staff are out thinking themselves more than anyone else.

 

[goonin_golden_gophers]

I don’t ask for them to be good, just a bit creative and fun to watch

 

[gopherfan007]

PJ won’t hire experienced coordinators because he doesn’t want the conflict that would occur with his ideas. .Rather than have to tell him no, we don’t want that play or scheme, he voids the whole issue by not hiring the problem.

so in short PJ is the problem

 

[Swaggerson]

I say most people here are way better offensive minds than our coordinator.

Better than the officials as well

 

[howeda7]

PJ won’t hire experienced coordinators because he doesn’t want the conflict that would occur with his ideas. .Rather than have to tell him no, we don’t want that play or scheme, he voids the whole issue by not hiring the problem.

That's not really true. Ciorracca had prior OC experience when PJ hired him and Sanford Jr. had both OC and head coaching experience. He just wasn't good. Harbaugh is both inexperienced and bad.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

The coaches did call RUTM on every 2nd and 10 in the first half.

The coaches did call a dozen screen plays after every single one failed.

The coaches did script 8 game opening drives this season that has netted 3 points total against FBS competition.

The coaches did take seven games this season to learn not to run from the shotgun on 3rd and 4th and 1.

There are plenty of schematic, decision making, and other coaching things to critique. Were you saying the same thing about Robb Smith before he was fired? Coaching is about putting your players in the best position to succeed, and Greg has been inconsistent and generally bad at that.

The Robb Smith comparison is spot on. So many people where arguing until they were blue in the face about how the problem was the players he had weren't just good enough. He got fired mid-season and replaced with a better DC, and amazingly those exact same players were much better almost instantly.

 

[Mulligan]

Quite a bit a speculation on GH about whether the Gophers can hold on to Drake in this NIL age. Some people offering up the fact that his family is wealthy, and money won't be a factor in keeping him a Gopher. However, why wouldn't he decide that there are a lot better places for his development as a quarterback? Pretty sure throwing half your passes towards the sideline for a one yard gain could get a bit frustrating. A program with more dynamic receivers; a better offensive line; and, especially, an imaginative coordinator tempt him more than money.

 

[MGGopher]

Harbaugh could absolutely be doing better, but I give him kudos for modernizing the O at least a little the past couple years. That said, he’s clearly an average offensive mind, and not one to elevate poor talent…

…and on that note, there’s a LOT of poor talent on this offense — and that is, by far, the biggest problem IMO. I challenge you to name a starter besides Lindsey and Taylor (when healthy) who would make major contributions for a competent P4 offense. Complete lack of game-changing athleticism at WR and TE. Ijeboi is OK but raw and not tough to bring down. The OL may have individual pieces, but they’re a mess collectively - esp in the zone running game.

 

[BigSchmidty17]

That's the message

I would say Collins is under performing more that Harbaugh. A lot more NFL talent on that side of the ball. Also, you get what you pay for. Gophers rank 18/18 in assistant coaches pay in the Big Ten.

 

[Some guy]

The coaches did call RUTM on every 2nd and 10 in the first half.

The coaches did call a dozen screen plays after every single one failed.

The coaches did script 8 game opening drives this season that has netted 3 points total against FBS competition.

The coaches did take seven games this season to learn not to run from the shotgun on 3rd and 4th and 1.

There are plenty of schematic, decision making, and other coaching things to critique. Were you saying the same thing about Robb Smith before he was fired? Coaching is about putting your players in the best position to succeed, and Greg has been inconsistent and generally bad at that.

The OC left a lot to be desired yesterday. I would be fine making a change. I’m not that impressed after a few seasons here…particularly the run game but:

There was a pass attempt on the first second down of the game?
You can’t just make stuff up.
There were two 2nd and 10 specifically pass attempt in the second quarter. And 3 second down passes in second quarter. They threw the ball 4/7 snaps in the third quarter.


Second down play selection was 5 pass 5 run in the first half.
First down was 8 pass 6 runs.
Of the 6 first down runs 2 were over 10 yards and 1 was a touchdown.



Again.
Plenty to criticize but you can’t just make shit up

 

[stocker08]

Fire whoever has the final say on the play calling. Team isn't good enough to be this conservative. Pretty easy to see why we struggle to put up points until the very end of the game when it's imperative. The playbook is hacked down to the same few plays for three quarters....and passes to the middle of the field are basically nonexistent. Why? Because they don't want Lindsey throwing the ball into traffic? So we're just fine throwing high percentage, zero yard screens and low percentage fades to the sidelines where they have little opportunity to be intercepted (or completed at all). It's chickenshit. So adverse to potentially turning the ball over.......but it's fine to punt the ball away all game.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Quite a bit a speculation on GH about whether the Gophers can hold on to Drake in this NIL age. Some people offering up the fact that his family is wealthy, and money won't be a factor in keeping him a Gopher. However, why wouldn't he decide that there are a lot better places for his development as a quarterback? Pretty sure throwing half your passes towards the sideline for a one yard gain could get a bit frustrating. A program with more dynamic receivers; a better offensive line; and, especially, an imaginative coordinator tempt him more than money.

He hasn’t played that well this year. He shows a strong arm but he’s missed on a lot of throws.

 

[Some guy]

Fire whoever has the final say on the play calling. Team isn't good enough to be this conservative. Pretty easy to see why we struggle to put up points until the very end of the game when it's imperative. The playbook is hacked down to the same few plays for three quarters....and passes to the middle of the field are basically nonexistent. Why? Because they don't want Lindsey throwing the ball into traffic? So we're just fine throwing high percentage, zero yard screens and low percentage fades to the sidelines where they have little opportunity to be intercepted (or completed at all). It's chickenshit. So adverse to potentially turning the ball over.......but it's fine to punt the ball away all game.

What was conservative about it?
Lindsey checking down?

Our number one called play was mesh yesterday in the pass game I would guess.
Is mesh a conservative play?



Being ineffective is not the same thing as being conservative

 

[Some guy]

He hasn’t played that well this year. He shows a strong arm but he’s missed on a lot of throws.

After yesterday he is:
11th in yards
10th in touchdowns
13th in rating

He is comfortably in the bottom in the middle third of the conference to me

 

[CentralGopher]

Well when the offense goes 3 and out for the better part of the second half, how do you expect the D to hold out when they were on the field for

Well when the offense goes 3 and out for the better part of the second half, how do you expect the D to hold out when they were on the field for that many plays.

Maybe they should not give up first downs when they have the other team in 3rd and long for a change? Been doing that all season now. No denying the offense was partly at fault yesterday but the defense needs to be able to get off the field when they force a 3rd and long and not give up plays of 20+ yards because they fell asleep.

 

[Word]

I would say Collins is under performing more that Harbaugh. A lot more NFL talent on that side of the ball. Also, you get what you pay for. Gophers rank 18/18 in assistant coaches pay in the Big Ten.

I would replace O-line coach first, then DC, then OC.

 

[matt]

The OC left a lot to be desired yesterday. I would be fine making a change. I’m not that impressed after a few seasons here…particularly the run game but:

There was a pass attempt on the first second down of the game?

Was that a 2nd and 10? No, it wasn’t. We ran on literally every 2nd and 10 (or longer) in the first 28 minutes of the game.

There were two 2nd and 10s in the 2 minute drill at the end of the first half while trying to drive the length of the field. Forgive me if I don’t give Greg credit for passing in that situation.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

After yesterday he is:
11th in yards
10th in touchdowns
13th in rating

He is comfortably in the bottom in the middle third of the conference to me

Agree. He has potential for sure but he has not been a world beater.

After yesterday he is:
11th in yards
10th in touchdowns
13th in rating

He is comfortably in the bottom in the middle third of the conference to me

 

[Some guy]

Was that a 2nd and 10? No, it wasn’t. We ran on literally every 2nd and 10 (or longer) in the first 28 minutes of the game.

There were two 2nd and 10s in the 2 minute drill at the end of the first half while trying to drive the length of the field. Forgive me if I don’t give Greg credit for passing in that situation.

Lol
We threw the ball 13 times on first and second down and ran the ball 11 in the first half

Sorry if this offends you.
We threw the ball multiple times on second and ten in the first half


You are 100 percent correct in your claim that we ran it every time if you eliminate all the times we threw it.


I can do it too.
The gophers threw the ball on every single second down in the first half! Terrible strategy! (if you eliminate the ones they ran)

 

[MNVCGUY]

Fire whoever has the final say on the play calling. Team isn't good enough to be this conservative. Pretty easy to see why we struggle to put up points until the very end of the game when it's imperative. The playbook is hacked down to the same few plays for three quarters....and passes to the middle of the field are basically nonexistent. Why? Because they don't want Lindsey throwing the ball into traffic? So we're just fine throwing high percentage, zero yard screens and low percentage fades to the sidelines where they have little opportunity to be intercepted (or completed at all). It's chickenshit. So adverse to potentially turning the ball over.......but it's fine to punt the ball away all game.

Did you watch the game yesterday? Drake had multiple completions over the middle of the field where he put the ball in a tight window.

I would be all for a more dynamic/experienced OC but there is a balancing act to all this as well. Lindsey is a redshirt freshman and while he has played well for the most part he is still very young and teams are getting film on him and adjusting how they attack him. His inexperience definitely limits some of what the team can do on offense.

Execution is another key piece in all this. The play call can be great but if the QB makes a bad throw or receiver drops the ball or lineman misses a block the play isn't going to work. Happened on the first 3 and out of the game, the play call was perfect, the back was wide open, Drake just missed him. Drake makes a good throw we get the first down and the drive continues. So it all goes hand in hand.

 

[MNVCGUY]

What was conservative about it?
Lindsey checking down?

Our number one called play was mesh yesterday in the pass game I would guess.
Is mesh a conservative play?



Being ineffective is not the same thing as being conservative

This definitely gets lost on people. Drake checks down to a shorter throw quite a bit, that comes from inexperience and not wanting to make the more risky throw so instead opting for the safer one.

 

[Some guy]

This definitely gets lost on people. Drake checks down to a shorter throw quite a bit, that comes from inexperience and not wanting to make the more risky throw so instead opting for the safer one.

The gophers were super conservative in the KC era
So now when we suck everyone assumes it’s because we are conservative

But sometimes when you suck it is because you suck…not because you were too aggressive or too conservative

QB missed a lot of throws yesterday that could’ve extended drives.
They were pretty aggressive on first and second down throwing over half the time. They ran effectively on first down and ineffectively on second down.


The third quarter is the most frustrating. Zero first downs.
They threw on 4/6 plays.
One was a completion a half yard short of the stick on mesh. The wideout needed to get the first down. That pissed me off.

First drive of 4th quarter they punted. They threw on 5 of 6 play calls.

Second drive of 4th quarter they punted. Threw on 3/4 play calls.


I just don’t know what people thought was conservative.
39 pass attempts.
23 rush attempts

4 rush attempts were QB sacks or scrambles.
So 43 pass calls and 19 run calls.
If anything they were too aggressive when the starting RB had 49 yards on 15 carries plus a 48 yard carry.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

We need someone with Koii Perich athletic ability and speed on offense. Honestly I would be ok with having Perich focus more on playing on offense, take him off special teams and defense more to play some offensive series. You throw him a smoke screen or tunnel, he may break off a big play due to his speed and size. I think we have enough guys in the safety room that can play that we could give him some reps at Wide receiver like what Travis Hunter did. I'm probably only one that thinks this but he seems like he could help the team on offense. If Darius Taylor were healthy any of what I say here would be moot. We sure could use that type of athlete at WR with all the injury's. On those second down runs up the middle we are seeing them try the wham or Crack backs off the edge with the tight ends, rather than a lead block with a FB, and it is totally ineffective, if anything those are clogging up rush lanes more than generating any crease and bring too many defenders to the middle of the field. Those plays are creating to much congestion, I know they have used it a lot in the past but this year, that has not bern an effective play. Not generating any kind of seal to either side of the center, just congestion. I'm not in favor of firing anyone, to me the head coach has too much equity, has had a lot of staff turnover but he has equity in promoting and developing people decent enough. I would like to see Harbaugh be a little more creative from week to week. Are things perfect no, but to me this has actually been a decent coaching year with all the new people on defensive side of the ball. I lived through the Wacker years as a student, exciting offense, couldn't stop a feather on defense. I will take winning, and less style points over losing shoot outs of high scoring games most weeks.

 

[matt]

Lol
We threw the ball 13 times on first and second down and ran the ball 11 in the first half

This coming from the guy who counters “we ran it on 2nd and 10” with “that’s not true, we passed it on 2nd and short two times!”

Keep moving the goal posts, buddy.

 

[Some guy]

This coming from the guy who counters “we ran it on 2nd and 10” with “that’s not true, we passed it on 2nd and short two times!”

Keep moving the goal posts, buddy.

You claimed we ran it on every second and ten in the first half
We threw it on two

You said that doesn’t count
Then said that I was the one who moved the goal posts

You might be an idiot


You’re right though. 6 second and tens in the first half.
They threw on two and ran on 4. And if you don’t count the two…they ran it every time.
Interestingly enough on all 6 second and tens they had called passed on first down.


Maybe we should run more on early downs so that we can be more aggressive on early downs.

 

[Vandy]

The inside run game and little, short flare passes require execution, blocking and talent. Do we have what it takes to run those plays? THAT is the question for the OC.

 

[Some guy]

The inside run game and little, short flare passes require execution, blocking and talent. Do we have what it takes to run those plays? THAT is the question for the OC.

The execution is definitely the issue.
And that’s on the coach too.

Call plays they can execute
or
Teach the guys how to execute what you want to call
Or
Recruit guys that can do the first two

But that’s a very different conversation than aggressive vs conservative

 

[Vandy]

The problem with Harbaugh is that he is widely predictable. Just one small example. Overtime, after the pass interference against us, we have the ball around the 5. He bunches the line and runs the dive. "Itchy Boy" makes a nice hard run. He then calls for the same exact play in the same or similar formation. Now, to his credit, the bootleg was a good call, but for me, there are just way too many of the predictable calls. He needs to let his play calling loose. There are time I think he does okay, but I've never felt he was a very good or awesome play caller. Only here and there, good call. I think this offense could hum, but we choose not to. Now, how much of that is Fleck? I don't know....

Agree, and our OL has not been blowing many D lines out. In my book, unless it is one yard to gain or less, you split a couple receivers to hopefully create more gaps.

 

[MNVCGUY]

The gophers were super conservative in the KC era
So now when we suck everyone assumes it’s because we are conservative

But sometimes when you suck it is because you suck…not because you were too aggressive or too conservative

QB missed a lot of throws yesterday that could’ve extended drives.
They were pretty aggressive on first and second down throwing over half the time. They ran effectively on first down and ineffectively on second down.


The third quarter is the most frustrating. Zero first downs.
They threw on 4/6 plays.
One was a completion a half yard short of the stick on mesh. The wideout needed to get the first down. That pissed me off.

First drive of 4th quarter they punted. They threw on 5 of 6 play calls.

Second drive of 4th quarter they punted. Threw on 3/4 play calls.


I just don’t know what people thought was conservative.
39 pass attempts.
23 rush attempts

4 rush attempts were QB sacks or scrambles.
So 43 pass calls and 19 run calls.
If anything they were too aggressive when the starting RB had 49 yards on 15 carries plus a 48 yard carry.

In its most basic form there are fans that see runs and short passes as conservative and deep shots as aggressive. We don't take a lot of deep shots therefore we are conservative.

This thought process used to be based on the number of runs vs. number of passes back when we were compared to a service academy offense, but now that we throw quite a bit more the short passes have had to be included with the runs in order to keep the narrative alive.

 

[Some guy]

In its most basic form there are fans that see runs and short passes as conservative and deep shots as aggressive. We don't take a lot of deep shots therefore we are conservative.

This thought process used to be based on the number of runs vs. number of passes back when we were compared to a service academy offense, but now that we throw quite a bit more the short passes have had to be included with the runs in order to keep the narrative alive.

Then we got a clown on here making false claims
So I call him on his false claim and then give him more data

And he said I moved the goalposts because the plays he was wrong didn’t count lol