Fire Coyle, Fire Fleck! Rip the Band-Aid off!!!

Donate To GopherHole
disco said:
I think coaching and recruiting meant more then. Money still mattered, but maybe not as much as it does now, and maybe not as much as it did in the SEC/Big 12. A couple grand here and there. Maybe a car? But not million dollar contracts. I would not be surprised if Wisconsin's current situation is not the new norm for them. A middle of the pack team like us.
Click to expand...
You could be exactly right ... and that would be wild. It shouldn't be able to change that much in 15 years. 2010 season was their last one that I was referring to
 

disco said:
Read closer what I wrote. People are saying "NIL doesn't come directly from the school."

Officially, that's supposed to be true. But who is to say certain programs aren't funding collectives under the table? Like you said, we don't know. But I'm cynical enough to assume that certain big name programs will do anything and everything to buy the best talent. And we either can't, or won't.
Click to expand...
It's hard for me to believe even the dirtiest SEC programs would fund them right out of the athletic department coffers. That's traceable and completely against the rules.

That would be wild
 

disco said:
Some of it is public. I believe someone filed an FOIA request regarding Texas Tech which showed $28 million in contracts, and that was before NIL money was distributed, so the rest is an estimate.

But you're right, nobody knows the actual numbers in most cases. But we do know that certain teams have whales, like Oregon, Tech, Miami, etc. and we do not.
Click to expand...
There was a mad rush to get as much 3rd party NIL signed earlier in the year for this season as possible, because the contracts for next season I believe are the ones that are starting to be scrutinized under NIL Go.

My point is, you could easily have Texas schools with somewhere between 20-40 Million in NIL deals for this season and that number will shoot down. Because those are largely not deals that will/would have passed the clearinghouse.
 

disco said:
Some of it is public. I believe someone filed an FOIA request regarding Texas Tech which showed $28 million in contracts, and that was before NIL money was distributed, so the rest is an estimate.

But you're right, nobody knows the actual numbers in most cases. But we do know that certain teams have whales, like Oregon, Tech, Miami, etc. and we do not.
Click to expand...
Texas Tech is pretty up front with some of their NIL numbers. The GM and players have thrown out actual numbers. The 4 DL this year cost 7 million. 3 million to the pass rusher from Stanford.
 

mngolf said:
So you prefer the losing we had with Mason, etc?
Click to expand...
He competed against the Alvarez Badgers not the shit show they have now and Drew Brees at Purdue as a couple examples. He was also in the shit hole dome. And yes, absolutely I would rather watch an average Mason game versus an average fFleck game; certainly post Mo.
 


LeftofThaDial said:
Texas Tech is pretty up front with some of their NIL numbers. The GM and players have thrown out actual numbers. The 4 DL this year cost 7 million. 3 million to the pass rusher from Stanford.
Click to expand...
Boasting by Tech officials and players with no corroborating documents doesn't do it for me.
 






GopherGrit said:
It's hard for me to believe even the dirtiest SEC programs would fund them right out of the athletic department coffers. That's traceable and completely against the rules.

That would be wild
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be a line item in the budget. It would be laundered somehow.
 

Gopherchase said:
PJ runs 90 percent of his program just fine. Everything related to game day planning, game day philosophies, and in game coaching he’s the worst. Terrible. Pretty much unwatchable product win or lose the last couple of years especially.
Click to expand...
I hate to break it to you, but given how we perform on the field, 90% of the program is NOT just fine. Maybe 20%. All the real football stuff is broken. Poor schemes, poor instruction, poor play calling, poor execution, poor choice of coaches, poor recruiting. We should've smoked MSU, Purdue and Rutgers. And that's an indictment of 50% or more of PJ'S program. I like PJ. But, I don't believe he's a great football person. Great motivator, great values, thoughtful man, good human being. But not a football guru.
 

mngolf said:
Players go where they're paid best. How is this so difficult for people to understand? OSU literally spent 30m on their team prior to revenue sharing. PJ tries to keep games low scoring and close to give his athlete spending level a chance in the 4th qtr. Sometimes it fails miserably.
Click to expand...

Ok so you explained the Ohio State and Oregon games. Am I to believe that Iowa is paying for players at that level as well?

And if it's because the other teams are paying so much money for their players, how do you explain the same approach in years 1-7, when players weren't being paid (legally anyway, or were on $EC teams)?
 
Last edited:




mngolf said:
Accountability for what? Doing his best with less money than half the conference? You think it's better to have a coach that doesn't show emotion for his team? Are we living in opposite world here?
Click to expand...
1) his coordinator hiring.
2) Having the team prepared and showing up for a full 60 minutes each and every week.

On showing up, I'm not saying that teams and coaches don't have bad games. I'm saying ready to play at the kick off, something we have done exactly once this season (Nebraska. I would buy an argument that we were ready last night and stayed engaged in the game for the most part for the full 60 as well - the talent disparity with Oregon is what it is, but teams with less money and less talent then we have fared better against Oregon this season - atlhough ultimately suffered the same fate). And this is not just a this year thing, although it's worse this year.

Example of this year? Michigan State - we showed up for about 6 minutes of that game. Yes we won, and never apologize for a win, but that was bad football, against a team that hasn't won in the B1G this year. We are a better team that that. I'd add Purdue, for most of the game, Rutger's for the 3/4 of the first half, signficatn portions of the Cal game as well.

Examples from last year? The second half of the Iowa game. The first half of the Michigan game. The Rutger's game.

There are examples of multiple games in every season of Fleck's tenure. We don't always lose the games we fail to show up for signficant portions of. Wacker was a coach that had teams that were bad, but they had a plan and gave full effort in every game, and lost. It's great we win some of these games, but it should not happen as consistently as it does.

And you last point? Simmer down killer. I get the wholely held belief that only PJ Fleck cares about his team - which is utter bullshit, but I know it's a thing for people who think even the slightest criticism of Fleck is blashphemy. He can do whatwever he wants, but if he punches a ref, or something goes absolutely off-kilter off field (neither of which I expect to happen, btw) he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to.

So relax that's not a slam on Fleck. It's a fact.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
The blue bloods didn't "handle" NIL; the outside boosters handled it. The schools just tagged along and reaped the benefits.
Click to expand...
Coyle and Mn administration ran away from it. Had to wait and see!! And yes, the blue bloods worked it hard. Meanwhile, in Minneapolis.....

Incredible lack of leadership, foresight, etc. Decades upon decades of this type of leadership has resulted in what you see today.
 

GopherGrit said:
More boasting.

If they're so eager to put it out there ... publish the contract.
Click to expand...
Why would the most dominant pitcher in college decide to forego her junior and senior season's at STANFORD which was making the college world series to go to a terrible school like Texas Tech which was a nobody until then? Oh, and at that point Mahomes started going to their games for the first time? Yeah, boasting.

A few years back, A&M ran promotions saying $25k to all offensive lineman. For years, Oklahoma has stated they are paying every rostered softball player $40k per year.
 

Gopherchase said:
He competed against the Alvarez Badgers not the shit show they have now and Drew Brees at Purdue as a couple examples. He was also in the shit hole dome. And yes, absolutely I would rather watch an average Mason game versus an average fFleck game; certainly post Mo.
Click to expand...
He lost to all those Alvarez and Brees teams
 

caliGopher said:
1) his coordinator hiring.
2) Having the team prepared and showing up for a full 60 minutes each and every week.

On showing up, I'm not saying that teams and coaches don't have bad games. I'm saying ready to play at the kick off, something we have done exactly once this season (Nebraska. I would buy an argument that we were ready last night and stayed engaged in the game for the most part for the full 60 as well - the talent disparity with Oregon is what it is, but teams with less money and less talent then we have fared better against Oregon this season - atlhough ultimately suffered the same fate). And this is not just a this year thing, although it's worse this year.

Example of this year? Michigan State - we showed up for about 6 minutes of that game. Yes we won, and never apologize for a win, but that was bad football, against a team that hasn't won in the B1G this year. We are a better team that that. I'd add Purdue, for most of the game, Rutger's for the 3/4 of the first half, signficatn portions of the Cal game as well.

Examples from last year? The second half of the Iowa game. The first half of the Michigan game. The Rutger's game.

There are examples of multiple games in every season of Fleck's tenure. We don't always lose the games we fail to show up for signficant portions of. Wacker was a coach that had teams that were bad, but they had a plan and gave full effort in every game, and lost. It's great we win some of these games, but it should not happen as consistently as it does.

And you last point? Simmer down killer. I get the wholely held belief that only PJ Fleck cares about his team - which is utter bullshit, but I know it's a thing for people who think even the slightest criticism of Fleck is blashphemy. He can do whatwever he wants, but if he punches a ref, or something goes absolutely off-kilter off field (neither of which I expect to happen, btw) he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to.

So relax that's not a slam on Fleck. It's a fact.
Click to expand...
I’m guessing the vast majority of teams have multiple games every year where they look bad for long stretches. Hard to claim it’s an effort issue.
 

caliGopher said:
1) his coordinator hiring.
2) Having the team prepared and showing up for a full 60 minutes each and every week.

On showing up, I'm not saying that teams and coaches don't have bad games. I'm saying ready to play at the kick off, something we have done exactly once this season (Nebraska. I would buy an argument that we were ready last night and stayed engaged in the game for the most part for the full 60 as well - the talent disparity with Oregon is what it is, but teams with less money and less talent then we have fared better against Oregon this season - atlhough ultimately suffered the same fate). And this is not just a this year thing, although it's worse this year.

Example of this year? Michigan State - we showed up for about 6 minutes of that game. Yes we won, and never apologize for a win, but that was bad football, against a team that hasn't won in the B1G this year. We are a better team that that. I'd add Purdue, for most of the game, Rutger's for the 3/4 of the first half, signficatn portions of the Cal game as well.

Examples from last year? The second half of the Iowa game. The first half of the Michigan game. The Rutger's game.

There are examples of multiple games in every season of Fleck's tenure. We don't always lose the games we fail to show up for signficant portions of. Wacker was a coach that had teams that were bad, but they had a plan and gave full effort in every game, and lost. It's great we win some of these games, but it should not happen as consistently as it does.

And you last point? Simmer down killer. I get the wholely held belief that only PJ Fleck cares about his team - which is utter bullshit, but I know it's a thing for people who think even the slightest criticism of Fleck is blashphemy. He can do whatwever he wants, but if he punches a ref, or something goes absolutely off-kilter off field (neither of which I expect to happen, btw) he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to.

So relax that's not a slam on Fleck. It's a fact.
Click to expand...
I don't mind any debate or criticism of Fleck. I don't understand people not seeing that he gets the most he can out of what he has.

Playing the style he does allows for consistently better overall seasons, but also allows for bad individual losses. People ask for him to have a Norm Parker, like those grow on trees.
 

BarnBurner said:
Coyle and Mn administration ran away from it. Had to wait and see!! And yes, the blue bloods worked it hard. Meanwhile, in Minneapolis.....

Incredible lack of leadership, foresight, etc. Decades upon decades of this type of leadership has resulted in what you see today.
Click to expand...
That part is correct. But that doesn't include Fleck.
 


mngolf said:
I don't mind any debate or criticism of Fleck. I don't understand people not seeing that he gets the most he can out of what he has.

Playing the style he does allows for consistently better overall seasons, but also allows for bad individual losses. People ask for him to have a Norm Parker, like those grow on trees.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if Fleck has tried to hire Norm Parker, but he might be easier to convince to come here than Phil Parker, who is currently Iowa’s defensive coordinator.

Perhaps you’re thinking of Norman Einstein, the guy Joe Theismann said was a genius.
 

Gopherchase said:
There were fewer bowl games and the conference was much tougher. The bowl games we have gone to sans ‘19 are nonsense.
Click to expand...
We also weren't winning six games and getting denied either. So the fewer bowl game isn't really relevant and yes it tends to be harder when you hire shitty coaches like Wacker who had a shitty tenure at TCU and expect him to not be shitty
 



disco said:
This is 100% about money. This is not like Wisconsin deciding to invest in the program in the Alvarez era. That might as well be 1950 at this point. Sure, getting some better paid coordinators would help, but it's players we need. Teams that can't invest in paying players are going to continue to fall behind. (and Wisconsin doesn't have very good NIL either).

Where the lack of investment for decades hurts is we didn't build a strong fan base who will pony up to pay for a good team (or an administration that will fund NIL under the table). And most notably, we don't have any singular whales who are mega-fans and will bankroll the team. Texas Tech has what, a $50 million payroll for football players?

The Gophers are right where they would be expected to be. They've won the games they were expected to (except Cal) and lost the games they were expected to (except Nebraska).
Click to expand...
Texas Tech counts 6 Billionaires and about 30 multimillionaires who are Plus 100 million in its fan base. These folks decided to pay whatever it takes to get a winning team. TT is undefeated so far this year. They were able to come back from a 30 point deficit and win yesterday. Money Matters. Lots of money matters a lot. I just wish someone would step up to pay for top notch coordinators. I was embarrassed by how confused the MN defense looked against Iowa - It was clear that the Gophers did not have good eye discipline. It is clear that the D coaches did not expect that Iowa might show something different. That is 100% on the defensive coaches.
 

When I first heard about Collins becoming our new DC, I thought it was sold as a "cool story", but it reeks of cheapest most desperate candidate available. Why wouldn't Fleck take some cash from his own contract and grease the skids for a proven experienced DC?
Collins career arc is a cool story, and I have nothing against him, but it's a cheep bastid blue light special and hope for the best!
 

Separate from the outcome and the way our team played I think the University of Minnesota athletic department should scout that stadium to learn how to run a game day experience.

I attended the game in Oregon and the game environment and entire crowd vibe was far and away superior to anything I’ve seen at TCF/HBS/Williams/Mariucci… it was FUN, great videos, great music, and got the crowd extremely hyped. Not to mention they didn’t force advertisements down our throats the entire game.

Bottom line; Minnesota has a lot of on field/court/ice improvements to make but the fan experience should not be left behind.
 



You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom