Fire Coyle, Fire Fleck! Rip the Band-Aid off!!!

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LeftofThaDial said:
Weren’t Ohio State, and Oregon more recently always getting those players? Even before NIL?
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All NIL does is bring the payment of players out into the open. Major programs have always been paying for talent, and paying more than we could. The naivete of some fans just amazes me. It's always been about money. It's just about a LOT MORE money now.
 



Gopherchase said:
No shit. There are 16 other teams in the conference. If you are hoping for us to recruit like those two I got some bad news for ya……
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I do not. I wish we could. I wish we had the money to compete for the level of talent that places like that do. But we don't. We are a mid-pack team with mid-pack money, and mid-pack talent. Unless something changes we will continue to be that. PJ can be frustrating, but ultimately, he isn't the problem.
 

disco said:
I do not. I wish we could. I wish we had the money to compete for the level of talent that places like that do. But we don't. We are a mid-pack team with mid-pack money, and mid-pack talent. Unless something changes we will continue to be that. PJ can be frustrating, but ultimately, he isn't the problem.
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PJ runs 90 percent of his program just fine. Everything related to game day planning, game day philosophies, and in game coaching he’s the worst. Terrible. Pretty much unwatchable product win or lose the last couple of years especially.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Nope, PJ recruited Rashod Batemen 100% he never is a Gopher without coach Fleck. Georgia tried to poach him late, but PJ kept him a Gopher. Johnson might have been a Kill/ Claeys recruit, but developed under Fleck.
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I stand corrected...
 



The Deliberate Stranger said:
Nope, you're a dumb ass and also all of your other examples were freshman when Fleck took over he developed them there more his players than Clawys and if you want to get technical about credit they were Kills recruits
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You know.... Having to resort to name calling to back up your point.... Remind me again, who is the dumb person? Better go look in the mirror idiot....
 

BarnBurner said:
Piss poor support and decisions from Mn admin. It's that simple.
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Who'd I rather have? I'd try Fleck as AD (he'd raise NIL money, if anybody can, and he would super-charge the Department); at HC, an experienced offensive coordinator who loves to recruit; at OC, a creative mind who doubles as a QB whisperer; and at DC, Phil Parker. At least two more wins per year. And, ideally, competitive efforts rather than humiliating, dispiriting blowouts against the top B1G teams. Go Gophers.
 

Ralph said:
I think you are being unfair to the beatniks. If Wisconsin and Michigan can have so much more athletic success even being run by hippies and beatniks there's no reason Minnesota cannot.

It's about the school investing in sports and making it a priority. Wisconsin and Michigan would still be great universities with bad sports teams. Look at Cal. No one disputes that Cal is one of the best universities on the planet.

People will overlook the hippies and beatniks if sports teams win. Michigan in reality has a few dozen big contributors and thousands of medium-sized contributors. Michigan does not need the entire Detroit business community supporting them. Wisconsin is not dependent on the Milwaukee business community.
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Look up the Minnesota Experimental City (MXC). This project did more to damage UMN's profile and reputation than anything. It also reinforced the mentality of "suckling at the teat" of the State Legislature for decades that followed.

The self-sufficient city project drove succeeding UMN administrations to become wholly dependant on Legislative funding mechanisms.
 

Bring back the Axe said:
We have roughly the same level of talent as most of the big ten outside of a handful of teams. We're not suffering from lack of recruiting or NIL. We've been able to retain our own players and even grab a few outside the program that have helped.
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Are you kidding?
 






disco said:
All NIL does is bring the payment of players out into the open. Major programs have always been paying for talent, and paying more than we could. The naivete of some fans just amazes me. It's always been about money. It's just about a LOT MORE money now.
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Which is why the SEC hates it so much. Now that it's legal, they have too much competition.
 

Gopherchase said:
PJ runs 90 percent of his program just fine. Everything related to game day planning, game day philosophies, and in game coaching he’s the worst. Terrible. Pretty much unwatchable product win or lose the last couple of years especially.
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So you prefer the losing we had with Mason, etc?
 

disco said:
This is 100% about money. This is not like Wisconsin deciding to invest in the program in the Alvarez era. That might as well be 1950 at this point. Sure, getting some better paid coordinators would help, but it's players we need. Teams that can't invest in paying players are going to continue to fall behind. (and Wisconsin doesn't have very good NIL either).

Where the lack of investment for decades hurts is we didn't build a strong fan base who will pony up to pay for a good team (or an administration that will fund NIL under the table). And most notably, we don't have any singular whales who are mega-fans and will bankroll the team. Texas Tech has what, a $50 million payroll for football players?

The Gophers are right where they would be expected to be. They've won the games they were expected to (except Cal) and lost the games they were expected to (except Nebraska).
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This post describes the ethos of something like a religious belief.

You don't have the facts. Neither do I. Neither does anyone.

No one knows the actual truth about what each player is making, whether that be "rev share", "NIL", or McDonald's bags under the table. No one knows.


It should all be laid bare. It should all be out there. I would like to know. But no one actually does.
 

disco said:
Not here it's not. I'd be shocked if there aren't schools paying NIL under the table since there's no real enforcement.
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Huh? They don't have to under the table ... the settlement allows them to rev share $20.5M per year.

3rd party NIL then can add on top of that, if the deals are bonafide and pass the new clearinghouse.

And if you believe boosters are still paying players under the table like the days before NIL, then I suppose there is that too.
 

disco said:
All NIL does is bring the payment of players out into the open. Major programs have always been paying for talent, and paying more than we could. The naivete of some fans just amazes me. It's always been about money. It's just about a LOT MORE money now.
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Then explain Wisconsin's Rose Bowl top 10 finish seasons, in the 90's under Alvarez and in the 2000's under Bielema.
 

GopherGrit said:
This post describes the ethos of something like a religious belief.

You don't have the facts. Neither do I. Neither does anyone.

No one knows the actual truth about what each player is making, whether that be "rev share", "NIL", or McDonald's bags under the table. No one knows.


It should all be laid bare. It should all be out there. I would like to know. But no one actually does.
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Some of it is public. I believe someone filed an FOIA request regarding Texas Tech which showed $28 million in contracts, and that was before NIL money was distributed, so the rest is an estimate.

But you're right, nobody knows the actual numbers in most cases. But we do know that certain teams have whales, like Oregon, Tech, Miami, etc. and we do not.
 
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GopherGrit said:
Huh? They don't have to under the table ... the settlement allows them to rev share $20.5M per year.

3rd party NIL then can add on top of that, if the deals are bonafide and pass the new clearinghouse.

And if you believe boosters are still paying players under the table like the days before NIL, then I suppose there is that too.
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Read closer what I wrote. People are saying "NIL doesn't come directly from the school."

Officially, that's supposed to be true. But who is to say certain programs aren't funding collectives under the table? Like you said, we don't know. But I'm cynical enough to assume that certain big name programs will do anything and everything to buy the best talent. And we either can't, or won't.
 

GopherGrit said:
This post describes the ethos of something like a religious belief.

You don't have the facts. Neither do I. Neither does anyone.

No one knows the actual truth about what each player is making, whether that be "rev share", "NIL", or McDonald's bags under the table. No one knows.


It should all be laid bare. It should all be out there. I would like to know. But no one actually does.
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How much each player makes? Correct. But approximately how much is spent on NIL at places like Oregon and OSU for football? It's been openly talked about by the institutions, coaches, and some players. Even Rutgers, in their yearly documentation shows they run at a $50m deficit in their athletic department and just charge it off to the University.
 

GopherGrit said:
Huh? They don't have to under the table ... the settlement allows them to rev share $20.5M per year.

3rd party NIL then can add on top of that, if the deals are bonafide and pass the new clearinghouse.

And if you believe boosters are still paying players under the table like the days before NIL, then I suppose there is that too.
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They don't pay under the table anymore. It's all legal now. And there's no clearinghouse that you speak of.
 


GopherGrit said:
Then explain Wisconsin's Rose Bowl top 10 finish seasons, in the 90's under Alvarez and in the 2000's under Bielema.
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I think coaching and recruiting meant more then. Money still mattered, but maybe not as much as it does now, and maybe not as much as it did in the SEC/Big 12. A couple grand here and there. Maybe a car? But not million dollar contracts. I would not be surprised if Wisconsin's current situation is not the new norm for them. A middle of the pack team like us.
 

disco said:
I think coaching and recruiting meant more then. Money still mattered, but maybe not as much as it does now, and maybe not as much as it did in the SEC/Big 12. I would not be surprised if Wisconsin's current situation is not the new norm for them. A middle of the pack team like us.
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Wisconsin does have whales, they just choose not to under the current staff. Think John menard
 


mngolf said:
Wisconsin does have whales, they just choose not to under the current staff. Think John menard
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I know there are people with a lot of money in that state. Menard, the Johnson Wax family, The Kohl family, the Kohler family etc. I honestly don't know enough about the support of Badger athletics.

There are a lot of boosters too that will donate for facilities, but are opposed to outright paying players. The Ryan family with Northwestern is apparently in that camp. But donating a building is a tax writeoff too. Paying players is not.
 

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