Feds weigh allegations of gender inequity in University of Minnesota

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GopherHomer said:
I think we all know that the U is no worse than any other school. My fear is that we are going to be used as a whipping boy...just like '97. UNC is equally guilty of anything we did in the '90s but they get a pass. The University of Minnesota is a perfect target for the NCAA - we're big enough to garner publicity, but not important enough to ruin their brand. Hopefully sanity prevails, but if there is any pent up desire for punishment we will feel the wrath.
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What?

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/04/north-carolina-notice-allegations-ncaa
 

WanderingGopher said:
Your posts have the tone of one of the ignorant, small minority whiners in Minnesota that has caused this to become front page news. Are you?

When it comes to spending, read the first 3 paragraphs of Souhan's article today and that's all that needs to be said on the subject, period. If you take issue with college football spending vastly exceeding the spending on non-rev sports, then I resent your use of Minnesota as the vehicle for change. If you think "fixing" that spending "disparity" at Minnesota will cause the Alabama's and FSU's of the world to follow suit, leading to a national "correction" of priorities, you're completely off your rocker. All it will do is smack Minnesota's football program back to obscurity. Maybe that's what you want?

With respect to the "participation numbers," can someone explain why the female "participation numbers" could possibly decline, as the article alleges, when we haven't dropped any womens sports or scholarships?? What are we talking about here? If we're talking about walk-ons, who cares. If we're talking about scholarship athletes, are these people suggesting that womens scholarships went unused?? How is that possible?
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All your questions will be answered when the Office of Civil Rights (OCR) completes their investigation and finalizes their report. Do you really think they are not going to find any infractions? If that is what you think you are living in a dream world. Meanwhile, the new sports facilities have been delayed because Teague failed to deal with this issue in a timely manner. Kill promised his players and recruits that construction would start in August or September. That is not going to happen and Kill can't be very happy about it. I am not happy either. I want to see that project completed as quickly as possible. Teague should be held responsible for the delay by Gopher fans. It is no secret that I am not a big fan of his. I think he came to Minnesota with an overblown reputation. For my money he has yet to demonstrate in Minnesota that his reputation is deserved.
 

GopherHomer said:
I think we all know that the U is no worse than any other school. My fear is that we are going to be used as a whipping boy...just like '97. UNC is equally guilty of anything we did in the '90s but they get a pass. The University of Minnesota is a perfect target for the NCAA - we're big enough to garner publicity, but not important enough to ruin their brand. Hopefully sanity prevails, but if there is any pent up desire for punishment we will feel the wrath.
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From Si article on North Carolina
Allegation No. 2 states that women's basketball athletic academic counselor Jan Boxill "added content to multiple players' incomplete papers," while Allegation No. 3 says that the school's former African and Afro-American Studies student services manager failed to cooperate with the NCAA investigation.
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Sounds like our Jan got remarried and has a new last name but the same job. :)
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
All your questions will be answered when the Office of Civil Rights (OCR) completes their investigation and finalizes their report. Do you really think they are not going to find any infractions? If that is what you think you are living in a dream world. Meanwhile, the new sports facilities have been delayed because Teague failed to deal with this issue in a timely manner. Kill promised his players and recruits that construction would start in August or September. That is not going to happen and Kill can't be very happy about it. I am not happy either. I want to see that project completed as quickly as possible. Teague should be held responsible for the delay by Gopher fans. It is no secret that I am not a big fan of his. I think he came to Minnesota with an overblown reputation. For my money he has yet to demonstrate in Minnesota that his reputation is deserved.
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Sicking the OCR on this is equivalent to sicking OSHA on a company. Yes they are likely to find some minor things wrong. Yes it will cost some money and time. Corrections will be made and life will go on. That doesn't mean the U of M is out of touch with female atheltics or non-revenue sports and if you can't be happy about the state of U of M athletics right now in reference to how Teague is doing his job then Joel your just going to have to move on and find a new job.
 

LakerFan said:
Sicking the OCR on this is equivalent to sicking OSHA on a company. Yes they are likely to find some minor things wrong. Yes it will cost some money and time. Corrections will be made and life will go on. That doesn't mean the U of M is out of touch with female atheltics or non-revenue sports and if you can't be happy about the state of U of M athletics right now in reference to how Teague is doing his job then Joel your just going to have to move on and find a new job.
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You are wrong about what I have posted, what I believe, and you don't know what the OCR is going to find. Other than that you might be right.
 



I feel for Teague. He had to put himself in the line of fire to explain to football ticket holders that they are on the hook to pay for scholarships for handfuls of non-revenue sports, because football actually makes money. That's not enough for some gutless coward though. What the U is trying to do will benefit each and every student athlete at the university, but that's not enough for some people.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
If there isn't a problem why wasn't the internal review completed long ago so that the new facilities project would not have to be delayed? This is a significant screw-up and I would guess that Jerry Kill for one is not too happy about it. We can only assume that the Board of Regents aren't happy about it either. One of the primary responsibilities of AD's are to deal with complaints like this before they blow-up and the OCR becomes involved. I have to believe that problems are almost always found when the OCR does an investigation. Kaler had to tell the regents that he doesn't even know if a new track facility will resolve the Title IX issues.
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You're not reading clearly.
Item 1. The internal investigation was to see IF there were any infractions, on behalf of the same morons quoted in the first article. Basically a bunch of Maturi's friends and donors to women's sports. IF there are no obvious issues but you still have these people having a fit because the football team is getting more attention than women's rowing for the first time in 15 years, you string them along. Giving them a final "no problem here" would cause a backlash pretty much similar to this, which in 2013 Teague didn't want to deal with since he had to mop up Maturi's messes.

Item 2. The anonymous reporter basically admitted this isn't about title IX, they are just pissed the football team is getting priority over the track team, read the MN daily's report. There's someone essentially playing the sexism card to submarine the new facilities until the track team gets taken care of before Jerry and his program. That crap happened under the previous AD, it cannot happen any more because we now have a real D1 AD instead of a D3 one.

Item 3. Goddamn right Jerry is pissed. So is Teague, so is Kaler, so are the regents.
At these freaking morons quoted in the article. It's the same bunch that didn't want to hire Teague. It's the same bunch that didn't want a combined department for men and women. It's the same bunch that want football to die and us to become the university of Chicago. They have played the last hand they can because Maturi isn't in charge anymore and YES, the women's sports and non revenues aren't the #1 priority anymore.

Finally, I would he you know that this OCR investigation will not be released to the public right? They'll reccomend changes and make conclusions, probably find a small amount of issues that an assistant AD will take care of while Teague does real work on fundraising, and everyone will move on except the moron bunch who will still be pissed but now have no play. The most that will come from this will be a plan for the new track, probably somewhere on the St. Paul campus.
 

Funny how it was okay to kick football off campus for a quarter of a century but track can't survive two whole years at another site while better facilities are built.
 



LakerFan said:
Funny how it was okay to kick football off campus for a quarter of a century but track can't survive two whole years at another site while better facilities are built.
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Good way to put it.
 

Ole said:
You're not reading clearly.
Item 1. The internal investigation was to see IF there were any infractions, on behalf of the same morons quoted in the first article. Basically a bunch of Maturi's friends and donors to women's sports. IF there are no obvious issues but you still have these people having a fit because the football team is getting more attention than women's rowing for the first time in 15 years, you string them along. Giving them a final "no problem here" would cause a backlash pretty much similar to this, which in 2013 Teague didn't want to deal with since he had to mop up Maturi's messes.

Item 2. The anonymous reporter basically admitted this isn't about title IX, they are just pissed the football team is getting priority over the track team, read the MN daily's report. There's someone essentially playing the sexism card to submarine the new facilities until the track team gets taken care of before Jerry and his program. That crap happened under the previous AD, it cannot happen any more because we now have a real D1 AD instead of a D3 one.

Item 3. Goddamn right Jerry is pissed. So is Teague, so is Kaler, so are the regents.
At these freaking morons quoted in the article. It's the same bunch that didn't want to hire Teague. It's the same bunch that didn't want a combined department for men and women. It's the same bunch that want football to die and us to become the university of Chicago. They have played the last hand they can because Maturi isn't in charge anymore and YES, the women's sports and non revenues aren't the #1 priority anymore.

Finally, I would he you know that this OCR investigation will not be released to the public right? They'll reccomend changes and make conclusions, probably find a small amount of issues that an assistant AD will take care of while Teague does real work on fundraising, and everyone will move on except the moron bunch who will still be pissed but now have no play. The most that will come from this will be a plan for the new track, probably somewhere on the St. Paul campus.
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I'm really hoping everything you say here is true. It does sound very plausible to someone like me who is admittedly completely out of the loop on any of this.
 

Sparlimb said:
Actually it said the percentage of women playing sports should be equal to the percentage of women in the student population. No D1 school with football has EVER met that standard. Now that said, to meet the wording of the statute, you'd have one men's football team and 12 women's team in various sports to equal out the numbers. That was never going to happen. So both sides compromised and said as long as you're making an effort that's good enough. To me, its a law. If you don't like the law, you change it. But otherwise, comply with the damn law.
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At this point there has been an internal audit and an anonymous allegation resulting in a Federal investigation...no law has been proved broken.

The fact that a Federal investigation can be started by an anonymous allegation is unsettling to me. That revenue isn't a factor in the distribution of moneys is wholly unsatisfying since if Football stops existing, all sports stop existing except intramural...but for some reason because I like and am willing to pay for football tickets and watch it on TV, the university is required to have tons of sports with almost no fans and very little support.
 

Old Goph said:
I'm really hoping everything you say here is true. It does sound very plausible to someone like me who is admittedly completely out of the loop on any of this.
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Not sure if all that is true but the non revenue sports were coddled by the previous AD. Things have changed under the current administration. As long as no laws were broken the change to football and men's basketball being made the top priorities should have happened years ago.
 



I don’t know what various metrics will show, such as locker room dimensions, but I did a quick analysis of the most recent performance of woman’s sports at Minnesota in actual competition. Out of the 12 sports, only one had a losing conference record. That was volleyball, which had a down year this year, but reached the Sweet Sixteen the year before. The hockey team was the national champion. Our softball team was B1G runner-up and almost advanced beyond its NCAA region. With a very young team, it should be very competitive for some time to come. Marlene Stollings seems to have rejuvenated the basketball team, and I’m very excited about its future. Seven Gopher woman will compete this weekend in the NCAA track and field championships. I’m a big fan of both men’s and woman’s sports at Minnesota and I’m not seeing anything in actual competition that would suggest AD gender bias. I support Title IX, and if the University needs to make changes to comply with that act, I’m all for it. But I think any such changes need to avoid damaging an overall sports program that seems to be headed in the right direction competitively. In my opinion, that requires a realization that it is the revenue sports that make the non-revenue sports possible regardless of the gender thereof.
 

re: the internal audit that was started in 2013. If the results were positive, then releasing that report would go a long way toward ending the story and easing concerns for potential donors. In government (and the U administration operates like a bureaucracy), if the news is good, you shout it to the heavens. If the news is bad, you try and bury it.

Again, when all is said and done, this is NOT going to be a huge problem. My gut tells me the OCR report will come up with some relatively minor issues; the U will pledge to correct said issues, and life will go on. But, having said that, I still get a feeling that this was not handled well by the AD's office - whether it was Teague or someone else in the office who deals with Title XI issues.

I would respectfully suggest that some people are over-reacting. Filing a complaint does not mean that someone "wants the FB program to die." If the U is in compliance, they have nothing to worry about. If they are not in compliance, they only have themselves to blame.

And finally - take this same story, change the name of the school to "Iowa" or "Wisconsin," and the reaction on this board would be VERY different. Just sayin'.
 


UpnorthGo4 said:
All your questions will be answered when the Office of Civil Rights (OCR) completes their investigation and finalizes their report. Do you really think they are not going to find any infractions? If that is what you think you are living in a dream world. Meanwhile, the new sports facilities have been delayed because Teague failed to deal with this issue in a timely manner. Kill promised his players and recruits that construction would start in August or September. That is not going to happen and Kill can't be very happy about it. I am not happy either. I want to see that project completed as quickly as possible. Teague should be held responsible for the delay by Gopher fans. It is no secret that I am not a big fan of his. I think he came to Minnesota with an overblown reputation. For my money he has yet to demonstrate in Minnesota that his reputation is deserved.
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With your vaguely supported predictions and strawman arguments, you're like the LateNightHoops of Title IX.
 

WanderingGopher said:
With your vaguely supported predictions and strawman arguments, you're like the LateNightHoops of Title IX.
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Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.
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Please STFU already. :rolleyes:
 


UpnorthGo4 said:
Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.
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Funny, you don't address any specifics discussed in the whole thread, not the faulty numbers, not the bias, or the MN daily report.
Just throw fear bombs out because you obviously don't like Teague.
Just crawl away.
 

Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.

Wow UpNortth, "rarely proven wrong"!!!!!! I must be getting senile about 40 years early. My recollection that you accepted the whole Tim Brewster line, Hook, Line and Sinker. I must be wrong about that, and the Maturi ballwashing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc51yYzGe7w
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.
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Give me a break Mrs. LNH. The only tangible predictions you've made in this thread are that the OCR will find violations and the facilities won't break ground this fall. The rest is just vague b*tching and flaming arrows at Teague. And your predictions hardly make you Nostradamus. The former is a given. This is like an IRS audit, of course they're going to find something. I'm very familiar with federal investigators -- these people live for finding violations...their career advancement is based on finding violations and the more sensational, the better for them. Sort of like the Strib writers. They've already spent time flying up here, of course they're not going to conclude "everything good." And as to the latter, we'll see. But yeah, I do fear that we'll get to the next Regents meeting and another delay announcement will occur, along the lines of, "we've decided it's most prudent to wait for the OCR report." And then we suffer in recruiting and we could very well lose Kill.

My problem is with the apparent interpretation of Title IX by some, with Minnesota being used as a scapegoat for what everyone is doing in college football (when all we're trying to do is keep up), and with people like you -- this little group of b*tchy whiners at Minnesota that caused the investigation to occur. In particular the one b*tchy little track whiner, whose name undoubtedly will become public at some point (hundreds of people must know who the "anonymous" complainer was). I have no problem with Teague, who's simply trying to make us big league in the revenue-producing sports after the prior athletic director bumbled around going to track meets and rowing while the football and bb programs were going down in flames.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Give me a break Mrs. LNH. The only tangible predictions you've made in this thread are that the OCR will find violations and the facilities won't break ground this fall. The rest is just vague b*tching and flaming arrows at Teague. And your predictions hardly make you Nostradamus. The former is a given. This is like an IRS audit, of course they're going to find something. I'm very familiar with federal investigators -- these people live for finding violations...their career advancement is based on finding violations and the more sensational, the better for them. Sort of like the Strib writers. They've already spent time flying up here, of course they're not going to conclude "everything good." And as to the latter, we'll see. But yeah, I do fear that we'll get to the next Regents meeting and another delay announcement will occur, along the lines of, "we've decided it's most prudent to wait for the OCR report." And then we suffer in recruiting and we could very well lose Kill.

My problem is with the apparent interpretation of Title IX by some, with Minnesota being used as a scapegoat for what everyone is doing in college football (when all we're trying to do is keep up), and with people like you -- this little group of b*tchy whiners at Minnesota that caused the investigation to occur. In particular the one b*tchy little track whiner, whose name undoubtedly will become public at some point (hundreds of people must know who the "anonymous" complainer was). I have no problem with Teague, who's simply trying to make us big league in the revenue-producing sports after the prior athletic director bumbled around going to track meets and rowing while the football and bb programs were going down in flames.
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Well said.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Be careful, Wandering. I have rarely been proven wrong in GopherHole. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It could be that it has never happened. So far I have been right on the money with my analysis of this Title IX situation. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be exactly as I have predicted.
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Anyone who wanders to the off topic board can debunk that.
 

LakerFan said:
Funny how it was okay to kick football off campus for a quarter of a century but track can't survive two whole years at another site while better facilities are built.
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And with the rumored location of the new track, they'll be neighbors of their soccer counterparts who somehow have survived the distance.

Don't the track athletes want to...oh I don't know....be able to host a meet or two which they haven't been able to do for several years?

If they could match the quality of the aquatic center which continues to host Olympian after Olympian, it would be a huge boost to the program.
 

From each according to his ability, to each according to her needs
 

Old Goph said:
An anonymous complaint gets filed. Of course that must mean it has the support of women and the left. Making garbage assumptions like that really looks bad.
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He made that assumption because odds are 99.9% that he is correct. You are naive if you don't think this thought process pervades the left. It's the same mindset that Jery Seinfeld blasted regarding P.C. garbage on most campuses and why he will not perform at colleges. You may not hold these views, and more power to you, but this stuff comes from one side of the political spectrum.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Give me a break Mrs. LNH. The only tangible predictions you've made in this thread are that the OCR will find violations and the facilities won't break ground this fall. The rest is just vague b*tching and flaming arrows at Teague. And your predictions hardly make you Nostradamus. The former is a given. This is like an IRS audit, of course they're going to find something. I'm very familiar with federal investigators -- these people live for finding violations...their career advancement is based on finding violations and the more sensational, the better for them. Sort of like the Strib writers. They've already spent time flying up here, of course they're not going to conclude "everything good." And as to the latter, we'll see. But yeah, I do fear that we'll get to the next Regents meeting and another delay announcement will occur, along the lines of, "we've decided it's most prudent to wait for the OCR report." And then we suffer in recruiting and we could very well lose Kill.

My problem is with the apparent interpretation of Title IX by some, with Minnesota being used as a scapegoat for what everyone is doing in college football (when all we're trying to do is keep up), and with people like you -- this little group of b*tchy whiners at Minnesota that caused the investigation to occur. In particular the one b*tchy little track whiner, whose name undoubtedly will become public at some point (hundreds of people must know who the "anonymous" complainer was). I have no problem with Teague, who's simply trying to make us big league in the revenue-producing sports after the prior athletic director bumbled around going to track meets and rowing while the football and bb programs were going down in flames.
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You are basically correct, Wandering. I made the two predictions you stated and also the observation that Teague failed to deal with this two-year old complaint in a timely manner. Since he didn't do his job the Title IX complainers found it necessary to take their case to the OCR. That didn't have to happen. We are now dealing with project modifications, delays, and additional costs because of Teague's failures. It was all so predictable. I would guess that women students, alumni, donors, and politicians have more power and influence at the U than almost every other major university in the world. Complain all you want about it but it is a fact of life that has existed for several decades and Teague was ignorant of it or chose to ignore it. Gopher football and basketball coaches, players, and fans are all paying for it now.
 

Are you sure you know what Teague did/did not do? Frequently people who have filed this type of complaint basically just do not like the answer to their complaint. That does not mean they are wrong, but it also does not mean Teague and others did not "deal" with the issue. It does mean they did not agree.
Sencondly, the track situation should not be a Title IX problem since it will inconvenience men's and women's teams equally.
Further the academic excellence center is for everyone, and the new hoops facility has always been for both teams
 

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